General > General Technical Chat
Out-of-control EV blaze (thermal runaway) threatens to sink massive RORO ship.
tszaboo:
--- Quote from: Jeroen3 on July 28, 2023, 10:48:24 am ---Yes, I doubt the cargo is the cause, even as many news outlets report the EV as cause. I don't believe that. They would have to spontaneously combust.
Since I have not seen reports of this on other places, like car transportation parking fires I highly doubt the cargo is the cause.
--- End quote ---
Bathtub curve for failures would indicate that new cars are likely to fail fast if there is something wrong with them after assembly.
I am kinda familiar with the shipping of Lithium batteries. They cannot be shipped more than 30% charged. Cannot go on plane. Has to be marked with danger label outside the box. When I saw the shipment of large size lithium cells, they came in a wooden box, that was filled up with something very much resembling asbestos, had to be opened in a closed and then cleaned environment, wear PPE, gloves and mask of course.
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on July 28, 2023, 11:59:40 am ---Now, is this needed? Of course not, it's nctnico's interpretation not backed up by any source or any sensible reasoning. Quite the opposite, if such measures were the only way to stop EV fires, we would be all doomed because these fires happen and in most cases there is no such container available. It's also worth noting Tesla specifically advises against it, this would be pretty weird if it was "necessary".
--- End quote ---
We are not doomed, but everyone buying cars now of these "Gen 1" electric cars is going to have a bad time in the future when solid state batteries come out. I really think at some point regular lithium is going to get banned, then you cannot drive into parking garages or city centers with their flashy tesla.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on July 28, 2023, 11:59:40 am ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 28, 2023, 09:18:00 am ---False information. No tanks of water are required. That is an overreaction.
--- End quote ---
It's typical extrapolation from facts: some fire brigades (not only in the Netherlands, but all around the world) have started testing/evaluating dipping the whole car in a container full of water. It sounds dramatic but it's actually simple: such containers are simple and plentiful, can be easily transported around using existing infrastructure, water is cheap and plentiful, and dipping the whole car simply removes the need of the "garden hose" man as you described it. It's an obvious idea, so it's obviously being used.
--- End quote ---
There is nothing "easy" about transporting such a container of water. Water is cheap and plentiful. In fact, it would be the perfect approach if only it were readily available, say at a fire hydrant. Oh, it is, isn't it.
So you can start fighting an EV fire without waiting for the only tank of water to arrive. Then if there are N tanks and N+1 fires, no problem.
I can't believe people are being serious about this idea.
--- Quote ---Now, is this needed? Of course not, it's nctnico's interpretation not backed up by any source or any sensible reasoning. Quite the opposite, if such measures were the only way to stop EV fires, we would be all doomed because these fires happen and in most cases there is no such container available. It's also worth noting Tesla specifically advises against it, this would be pretty weird if it was "necessary".
--- End quote ---
Yes, weird is the right word.
gnuarm:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on July 28, 2023, 12:19:48 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 28, 2023, 11:51:44 am ---Where are the equivalent guides for ICE vehicles. I can't seem to find them.
--- End quote ---
Here's something: https://www.firerescue1.com/fire-products/personal-protective-equipment-ppe/articles/firefighter-safety-reminder-car-fires-are-class-b-fires-aHIOlyst4ZAmA2Z6/
>The responding crew got caught in the flash reignition of the liquids, but thankfully, they were protected by their PPE.
The same dreaded reignition, but orders of magnitude faster and thus more dangerous.
>third-degree inhalation burns to the throat, trachea, possibly lungs. Facial burns around the mouth and nose area
>third-degree burns to the scalp, neck, eyes and face.
>third-degree burns to the hands and wrists.
>the gear, when exposed to the extreme high-heat temperatures, starts to off-gas.
> a simple fuel spill fire is enough to push the gear to those limits
>be mindful of what is flowing out from the vehicle and where you are standing in relation to it, and then start extinguishment from a distance before moving closer.
Sounds all pretty nasty.
--- End quote ---
Flammable liquids are very, very dangerous. Not only the liquid, but the vapors can accumulate to explosive levels. It's not an issue very often, but it does happen.
It's too bad ICE fires are so much more prevalent than EV fires. Dangerous, and frequent. Not a good combination.
tom66:
--- Quote from: tszaboo on July 28, 2023, 12:47:59 pm ---We are not doomed, but everyone buying cars now of these "Gen 1" electric cars is going to have a bad time in the future when solid state batteries come out. I really think at some point regular lithium is going to get banned, then you cannot drive into parking garages or city centers with their flashy tesla.
--- End quote ---
I think that's an insane overreaction, relatively speaking the risk of ICE fire or the risk of EV fire are both quite low, likely the EV represents a lower risk. If you want to ban any car from a parking garage, ban the 15 year old car with an oil leak and 15A fuses in place of 5A ones that keep blowing for some reason...
Just a few years ago in the UK a fire in a Range Rover that was reportedly 15 years old destroyed 1150 cars and likely wrote off the entire building...
https://www.bafsa.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2018/12/Merseyside-FRS-Car-Park-Report.pdf
From the report:
--- Quote ---Running fuel fires were witnessed by BA crews and this undoubtedly led to fire spread
through the drainage system, down ramps and along the rib slab floor. This was also
highlighted in the BRE experiments conducted between 2006 and 2009:
* “Running fuel fires due to failure of plastic fuel tanks in early stages of vehicle
fires can be expected. It is estimated 85% of European vehicles are thought to
have plastic fuel tanks.” (BRE Fire Spread in Car Parks BD2552 p.12).[..]
--- End quote ---
aeberbach:
--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 28, 2023, 07:25:38 am ---
Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about, "thumbnail-face" or "soy faces". I have to assume you are making some sort of joke. I'm not laughing.
--- End quote ---
It means the tendency of YouTube creators to make exaggerated faces on thumbnails is found tiresome by a lot of people to the extent it's an instant skip.
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