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Out-of-control EV blaze (thermal runaway) threatens to sink massive RORO ship.

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PA0PBZ:

--- Quote from: nctnico on August 12, 2023, 10:16:36 am ---You mean that guessing is better than having factual information? So far all you have been doing in this thread is dismissing factual information and keep clinging on to your own believes.

--- End quote ---

I'm a bit confused because it looked like gnuarm was defending EVs but even when I bring in some information that was apparently released by the head of the salvage team that it was not caused by the EVs he still reacts this way. Some are hard to please I guess  :-//

MT:

--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 12, 2023, 06:33:13 am ---
--- Quote from: MT on August 12, 2023, 01:07:09 am ---
--- End quote ---

I'm about halfway through the video, into the actual second video which the author tacked onto the end, and the only mention of EVs has been to mention nothing specifically relevant to the fire on the Fremantle Highway.   He does spread falsehoods such as EV fires being "almost impossible to extinguish".   He tries to blame this on how closely they are packed.  All the while, no one has shown the fire had anything to do with EVs.

One of the video hosts says, "EVs catch fire even on land for no apparent reason", with no support.  I expect there are people even in this group, who believe that.

It is clear that the fear of fires in EVs is an emotional reaction to new technology, not entirely unlike people being afraid of "radiation" from 5G technology.  It is disappointing to see presenters spreading this sort of misinformation.  But, they are doing their videos to make money, which requires eyes on the screen.  They can't get that by saying, "We don't actually know anything yet, but..."

--- End quote ---

Perhaps watch the full video then. So far all you have been doing in this thread and many other threads is dismissing factual information and keep clinging on to your own believes and biases, for some odd reason.

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: MT on August 12, 2023, 04:02:45 pm ---
--- Quote from: gnuarm on August 12, 2023, 06:33:13 am ---
--- Quote from: MT on August 12, 2023, 01:07:09 am ---
--- End quote ---

I'm about halfway through the video, into the actual second video which the author tacked onto the end, and the only mention of EVs has been to mention nothing specifically relevant to the fire on the Fremantle Highway.   He does spread falsehoods such as EV fires being "almost impossible to extinguish".   He tries to blame this on how closely they are packed.  All the while, no one has shown the fire had anything to do with EVs.

One of the video hosts says, "EVs catch fire even on land for no apparent reason", with no support.  I expect there are people even in this group, who believe that.

It is clear that the fear of fires in EVs is an emotional reaction to new technology, not entirely unlike people being afraid of "radiation" from 5G technology.  It is disappointing to see presenters spreading this sort of misinformation.  But, they are doing their videos to make money, which requires eyes on the screen.  They can't get that by saying, "We don't actually know anything yet, but..."

--- End quote ---

Perhaps watch the full video then. So far all you have been doing in this thread and many other threads is dismissing factual information and keep clinging on to your own believes and biases, for some odd reason.

--- End quote ---

What "beliefs and biases"?  What is wrong with using information that is from a reliable source, rather than "they"?

EPAIII:
Perhaps he is not making sense. Perhaps.

But you say, "Battery fires only require water."

So we have a burning ship in the middle of the ocean, which I suspect is mostly water, and they can't put it out. What's wrong with this picture? And don't tell me that water is not used to put out fires on ships. Sure, enough water could sink a ship, but it does take a lot. Fire control on ships has used water. Perhaps it is not currently the best answer, but it has been used. They even build and employ boats specifically for doing that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireboat

In WWII tons and tons of water was used to fight fires on Navy ships: sometimes successfully and sometimes not. But it was used.

So, perhaps, just perhaps you are also not making complete sense.

The mixed fuel argument seems to make more sense. There are 25 electric vehicles loaded in a ship with well over 1000 gas and diesel powered ones. So, in all likelihood, more than one thing is burning. But I am not a firefighter, so I don't claim to know.

As for using the words "thermal runaway" to describe this, they are perhaps not the best choice. What happens in those batteries is the fuel and the oxidizer are both present inside the battery. So, once the fire starts, it continues with no need for anything from the outside. It is like a solid fuel rocket engine, fuel and oxidizer are mixed together and only need a source of ignition. Solid fuel rockets can not be turned off like liquid fuel ones can by simply closing a valve or stopping a pump. In fact, when some solid fuel missiles needed to have their thrust terminated, the answer was to blow holes in them to vent the burning gases to the sides instead of out the rear. But the solid fuel just continued to burn until it was ALL exhausted. Same thing happens in the batteries. They just keep burning as long as the chemicals (fuel and oxidizer) are still available.




--- Quote from: gnuarm on July 27, 2023, 08:32:49 pm ---
--- Quote from: MT on July 27, 2023, 05:12:15 pm ---

--- End quote ---

I got tired of it about four minutes in.  It's all speculation, like, "kind of suggests EV thermal runaway", as if that's even a thing. 

Then he spouts falsehoods such as EV battery fires, "can not be stopped".  They can by applying water.  Gasoline fires require foam, because the gasoline floats on water, spreading the flames and making it so much worse.  Battery fires only require water.

This guy is a blowhard, with an obvious ax to grind.  None of the press reports talk about this being caused by EVs.  There were 2,857 cars, including only 25 electric cars.  Zero evidence of any cause, including it being started by an EV. 

I put John Cadogan in the bit bucket some time ago.

--- End quote ---

gnuarm:

--- Quote from: EPAIII on August 16, 2023, 09:02:35 am ---Perhaps he is not making sense. Perhaps.

But you say, "Battery fires only require water."

So we have a burning ship in the middle of the ocean, which I suspect is mostly water, and they can't put it out. What's wrong with this picture?
--- End quote ---

What ship, and what fire are you talking about???  You don't use water on gasoline fires.  You use water on lithium-ion battery fires.  Gasoline fires require foam.  Water just floats the gas on top, spreading around on a river of fire.



--- Quote ---And don't tell me that water is not used to put out fires on ships. Sure, enough water could sink a ship, but it does take a lot. Fire control on ships has used water. Perhaps it is not currently the best answer, but it has been used. They even build and employ boats specifically for doing that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fireboat

In WWII tons and tons of water was used to fight fires on Navy ships: sometimes successfully and sometimes not. But it was used.
--- End quote ---

Why are you telling me this?  You seem to have jumped a rail.



--- Quote ---So, perhaps, just perhaps you are also not making complete sense.
--- End quote ---

Not making sense about what???  I think you are putting words in my mouth.



--- Quote ---The mixed fuel argument seems to make more sense. There are 25 electric vehicles loaded in a ship with well over 1000 gas and diesel powered ones. So, in all likelihood, more than one thing is burning. But I am not a firefighter, so I don't claim to know.
--- End quote ---

Also, you are not on the ship, so you have no idea.



--- Quote ---As for using the words "thermal runaway" to describe this, they are perhaps not the best choice. What happens in those batteries is the fuel and the oxidizer are both present inside the battery. So, once the fire starts, it continues with no need for anything from the outside. It is like a solid fuel rocket engine, fuel and oxidizer are mixed together and only need a source of ignition. Solid fuel rockets can not be turned off like liquid fuel ones can by simply closing a valve or stopping a pump. In fact, when some solid fuel missiles needed to have their thrust terminated, the answer was to blow holes in them to vent the burning gases to the sides instead of out the rear. But the solid fuel just continued to burn until it was ALL exhausted. Same thing happens in the batteries. They just keep burning as long as the chemicals (fuel and oxidizer) are still available.
--- End quote ---

No, not true.  Lithium-ion battery fires can be put out with water.  The water lowers the temperature, preventing further ignition.  The fire goes out.

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