Out of flux...can I go molest a pine tree to get some?

[Evil Lurker]

I let myself run out of flux and have yet to get around to ordering some more. So I got to thinking that rosin from what I understand is basically pine sap. In my part of the world there are loblolly, virginia, shortleaf, and white pines scattered about everywhere. Even got a few on my property that I need to get rid of.  Is it as easy as scraping up some sap (might have to go to the local sawmill, that would be easiest way), dissolving it in alcohol (methanol is cheap from the farm supply place), filtering it to get the debris out of it, evaporating off the alcohol, and heating the finished goop up to drive off most of the lower boiling volatile organic compounds? I'm fairly certain it would not be anywhere in the same league as something made by the likes of Kester, but all I need is a small amount to get me by.

Also for what it is worth I am thinking about ordering some cheap electronic toys and what not from some Chinese sellers on Ebay. Is there any of that Chinese flux that is worth a darn? I mean you'd think that as much electronics crap that country manufactures there should be something that would not be too bad.

Anyways, look over me, it's be one of those days and I'm feeling extra facetious this afternoon.

[Tallie]

Try it and let us know how it works out... this is how things are invented.

[Rick Law]

From the way you worded it, it sounds like your problem is the ETA of the item, and you need it sooner that that, right?  (And I assume there is no electronic stores near you...)

If you need it very quickly, see if there is a music store that sells violin / classical music supplies.

Violin uses rosin for the bow.  So do other bow-string instruments like viola and cello.  You may be able to get some rosin blocks there - typically block size is about 1-2 inches long by 0.5-1 inch wide, and about same width as height so it fits into a violin case.  Price varies depending on quality, from a few bucks up.

You need some alcohol to dissolve the rosin and off you go...

[SAI_Peregrinus]

Rosin is sap that's been boiled to remove the lighter terpenes.  So if you want to make rosin from the sap you'll want to distill it. Since it's the heavier/higher boiling point product you don't need a still, you can vent the fumes. Just keep the stuff in the pot under about 160C (and over 100C) and it should be fine.

Stick rosin in denatured alcohol (cheap from a hardware store), filter it through coffee filters or similar to remove particulate matter, and you'll get a reasonable liquid flux. You can get powdered rosin cheaply from many sporting goods stores, it's used as a grip enhancer. Should be under $20/lb. Often much cheaper than that from music shops, and it's already powdered so it dissolves faster. Easier than boiling sap.

[pickle9000]

Local music store for rosin (violin bow). Place in a cloth bag smash up with hammer, put in jar cover with 99% iso (go easy on it don't fill the jar just cover the chunks) leave overnight and strain off the liquid. It can take a week to dissolve all the rosin but you can get enough off it to use in a few hours.

 

[rs20]

Rosin is sap that's been boiled to remove the lighter terpenes.  So if you want to make rosin from the sap you'll want to distill it. Since it's the heavier/higher boiling point product you don't need a still, you can vent the fumes. Just keep the stuff in the pot under about 160C (and over 100C) and it should be fine.

Won't the terpenes disappear rapidly once they hit the soldering iron anyway? I suspect this step is optional.

[BradC]

Won't the terpenes disappear rapidly once they hit the soldering iron anyway? I suspect this step is optional.

If by "disappear" you mean vaporize and float around getting into things like nasal passages, then yes.

Checkout the "Hazards" section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine

There is more than one reason people (where possible) move from gum turpentine to "mineral turpentine" (which really bears no resemblance but for a few uses is good enough).

Burning green pine and copping a lungful of the smoke is pretty unpleasant. I'd not want a concentrated version of that coming off the end of my iron.

[nanofrog]

As mentioned above, you can make your own (can also find raw rosin under the term colophony, and it's sold on eBay). Requires additional chemistry to make RMA and RA (activators). Technical datasheets should offer you a clue here. 

But as it seems you're willing to order flux from China (I don't recommend doing this), you'd be better off buying MG Chemicals Rosin 835 (it's an RA formulation, equivalent to Kester 1544). Comes in hobbyist friendly sized containers (4 fl. oz & 1 L), is of excellent quality, and priced right as well. It would also arrive faster as the links are for US sellers.

There are also sellers on eBay that break up large containers of Kester (959, 186, ...) and sell in smaller quantities (i.e. 2.5oz bottle of 186). I've gotten 186 from this seller, and 1544 from Skycraft (physical store in Orlando).

[rs20]

Won't the terpenes disappear rapidly once they hit the soldering iron anyway? I suspect this step is optional.

If by "disappear" you mean vaporize and float around getting into things like nasal passages, then yes.

Checkout the "Hazards" section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine

There is more than one reason people (where possible) move from gum turpentine to "mineral turpentine" (which really bears no resemblance but for a few uses is good enough).

Burning green pine and copping a lungful of the smoke is pretty unpleasant. I'd not want a concentrated version of that coming off the end of my iron.

I concede (and thank you for the info) to the extent that I wasn't aware that terpenes were quite that bad, although the dose makes the poison, the amount of sap being used would be tiny, and most of us are pretty good at keeping our head out of the solder smoke (because even the good stuff is still pretty unpleasant), chronic vs acute, maybe the OP has an extractor fan, etc, etc.

What I'm saying is, good call pointing out that terpenes are nasty to some extent; but performing a separate boiling step is perhaps not the only way to ameliorate those dangers (and, if you choose to go down the boiling route, you have to be careful you do that boiling in a well-ventilated place, too.) Of course, it's not called rosin until you boiled it (as you pointed out originally), so if you want rosin, then you have to boil it :-)

[SeanB]

If you have pine trees then look for a pine log with knots in it, and cut out the knotty area. then simply wipe the iron across it, and it will be cleaned nicely. I do that regularly in the garage with the firestick, and it has survived for decades that way.

[BradC]

I concede (and thank you for the info) to the extent that I wasn't aware that terpenes were quite that bad, although the dose makes the poison.

I wasn't either. It wasn't until I was sloshing around some real turps one day and my neighbour (who has done a lot of work in OH&S with chemicals) said "You should really go and look that stuff up", that I did.

On the dose making the poison, I absolutely agree. And yes, the qty likely to be present in the situation being discussed is probably tiny, but if you can just boil it up in a tin can on the BBQ and remove that completely, why wouldn't you?

[Ian.M]

Also, rock hard pale rosin leaves a residue that is inert, non-conductive and easy to remove mechanically.  Once cold, excess flux round the joint simply scrapes off and far less alcohol is required for cleanup.   

If you use raw resin, the residue will be sticky and will attract dust and other contaminants which are likely to cause surface leakage. The lighter terpenes boiling will also to some extent drive the flux away from the joint.

If possible avoid dark rosin. Its likely to contain more contaminants, tends to have a lower melting point and if obtained commercially, may be blended with substances that may be beneficial for enhancing friction for the musician or athlete, but certainly wont be helpful in a flux.

[Evil Lurker]

For what it is worth, I own a farm out in a very rural area where most of the population is barely qualified to plug a toaster into a mains wall socket.... because of that there is just not enough demand to support any specialized brick and mortar electronic components and accessory shop anywhere within a reasonable driving distance of my home. Same could be said for a lot of other things that like to break down as well.  But the deal is time doesn't stand still, and many times things need to be temporarily patched up to where they are capable of halfway functioning using a combination of third world engineering skills and whatever raw materials you have on hand at the moment. In the long run these sort of repairs are typicality inefficient, possibly hazardous, and have a nasty tendency to become complete time vampires.  But it sure beats me sitting around twiddling my thumbs waiting for the UPS man to get my package to me. 

They deal with the DIY flux is no exception. But as crazy as it sounds I have actually come to enjoy such sadomasochistic follies.  The way I look at things is generally when I go on a windmill tilting spree I learn something new in the process,  it helps keep my creative skills sharp, and gives me an outlet for said creativity.  Technically I guess I could do the same thing with sudoku puzzles but for me the end result being a page full of numbers in little boxes just isn't anywhere near as satisfying.... nor has it the possibility of emitting a smokey pine incense smell in the process.

I gotta get out and do some running later on today and will see what I can scrape up... literally. 

[BradC]

They deal with the DIY flux is no exception. But as crazy as it sounds I have actually come to enjoy such sadomasochistic follies.  The way I look at things is generally when I go on a windmill tilting spree I learn something new in the process,  it helps keep my creative skills sharp, and gives me an outlet for said creativity.

Don't get the impression we are trying to discourage you. Quite the opposite. Just pointing out that there is a process and boiling out the terpenes is part of it. Personally I look forward to your writeup (you will do one won't you?) to let us know what you did, how you did it and how good it smelt.

I'm the same. I often built, brew & concoct what I could relatively easily buy for either expedience, experience or often both. Drives my wife mad most of the time but keeps curiosity at bay.

[German_EE]

During WWII the allied prisoners of war used pine sap as flux when they were building their clandestine radio sets.

[Smokey]

Assuming you have decent flux core solder, more flux is almost never required. 

[smjcuk]

Assuming you have decent flux core solder, more flux is almost never required.

This. I used to hand solder bits of missiles. Not once did we use anything past silver or straight lead multicore. Not sure what all this flux voodoo worship is all about.

[Smokey]

Assuming you have decent flux core solder, more flux is almost never required.

This. I used to hand solder bits of missiles. Not once did we use anything past silver or straight lead multicore. Not sure what all this flux voodoo worship is all about.

I bet they are just in it to get high on the flux fumes! 

[Howardlong]

Local music store for rosin (violin bow). Place in a cloth bag smash up with hammer, put in jar cover with 99% iso (go easy on it don't fill the jar just cover the chunks) leave overnight and strain off the liquid. It can take a week to dissolve all the rosin but you can get enough off it to use in a few hours.

I used to make desolder braid from the outer of coax and violin rosin when I was a kid, maybe 10 or 11 years old, so 40 years or so ago. I would melt the rosin onto the braid by heating the braid up with the iron and drawing it through the braid. It worked, but it wasn't great.

Thing is, things like desolder braid were not as cheap and easily available as they are now. And I'd hazard a guess that my career as electronic engineer has been far more lucrative than that as a violinist. I was shit at it, but the parents seemed to think it was the right thing to do. I can play drums and sax reasonably well though, but they have yet to earn me a penny either.

[timb]

Flux is pretty much essential if you need to touch up a joint after soldering. I use a water based flux pen that works wonders, but it's hell on your soldering iron tips.


Sent from my Tablet

[smjcuk]

I just use a solder sucker and braid to clean up the hole and do it again properly

[Zero999]

The only time I've ever used flux is for soldering some old cable which had badly oxidised. Most of the time the rosin in the solder is enough.

[c4757p]

How do you "I never use flux" people solder QFN or DFN or fine-pitch QFP...?

[nanofrog]

How do you "I never use flux" people solder QFN or DFN or fine-pitch QFP...?

+1 

Drag soldering absolutely requires additional flux to be done properly.

[smjcuk]

How do you "I never use flux" people solder QFN or DFN or fine-pitch QFP...?

We just buy the same device in a DIL package