Over 10,000 Starlink satellites launched

[5U4GB]

Are those Starlink satellites capable of doing more than just providing internet? That is my question...

They'll make a great contribution towards Kessler syndrome, but that's someone else's problem to clean up.

[Psi]

What you may need to really achieve a fundamental breakthrough in this technology is a physically small starlink modem with a small antenna, say as large as today's GPS modules.. 

I'm sure they are working on that. but I don't think you really need the bandwidth in such a small device that a huge phase array antenna allows for.
But it will be interesting if they managed to miniaturize a phase array antenna for cellphone use.
For the immediate future it's going to be using something similar to a LTE/5G connection to future generation starlink sats that have advanced cell capabilities.

I think SpaceX have been buying spectrum, so it's probably safe to assume new phones will appear that support some new mobile data standard on a new band that SpaceX will release specs on at some point. I'm thinking we will be seeing new phones with special support for a Starlink cell protocol within 5 years. With faster/better service than the current LTE/5G stuff.
They're goal is definitely going to be selling phone plans for voice/data using the starlink network, they not going to stop at TXT.
It's yet to be seen whether the voice/data plans will be provided though local telcos or directly through a SpaceX/Starlink cell network you pay for in addition to your local carrier fee.

[Psi]

Are those Starlink satellites capable of doing more than just providing internet? That is my question...

They'll make a great contribution towards Kessler syndrome, but that's someone else's problem to clean up.

Na. It's LEO. While there are some risks from collisions throwing things up into higher orbits, LEO mostly cleans itself automatically in time scales that don't screw you over for that long.
It's MEO and GEO where you can get serious Kessler issues that cut off your access to space for many generations.

[eutectique]

Russian military is actively using Starlink, more and more so. First, for their reconnaissance drones. Now for one-off strike kamikaze ones.

https://web.archive.org/web/20251215145420/https://t.me/milinfolive/162383

[coppercone2]

Are those Starlink satellites capable of doing more than just providing internet? That is my question...

They'll make a great contribution towards Kessler syndrome, but that's someone else's problem to clean up.

Na. It's LEO. While there are some risks from collisions throwing things up into higher orbits, LEO mostly cleans itself automatically in time scales that don't screw you over for that long.
It's MEO and GEO where you can get serious Kessler issues that cut off your access to space for many generations.

"that long" can mean a human life time. High earth orbit would many-generations problem, low earth orbit can be a generation problem. I don't sugar coat "10 to 100 years", as bad as high earth orbit is (1000-20000 years). Its a disaster that would change the course of history, and high earth orbit kessler would permanently change mankind. "help clean up space by the year 10000 AD"

It would be a kind of dark period, or perhaps even dark age, where we lose sight of space and many future commercial ventures that are planned would become impossible


I wonder how Scientologists feel about it lol, the gods can't come back through the obstacle course of garbage we put up

[wraper]

think SpaceX have been buying spectrum, so it's probably safe to assume new phones will appear that support some new mobile data standard on a new band that SpaceX will release specs on at some point. I'm thinking we will be seeing new phones with special support for a Starlink cell protocol within 5 years. With faster/better service than the current LTE/5G stuff.

Faster than half decent-5G won't happen. Although it could provide useable internet anywhere in the world whiteout the need of specialized equipment.

[Psi]

think SpaceX have been buying spectrum, so it's probably safe to assume new phones will appear that support some new mobile data standard on a new band that SpaceX will release specs on at some point. I'm thinking we will be seeing new phones with special support for a Starlink cell protocol within 5 years. With faster/better service than the current LTE/5G stuff.

Faster than half decent-5G won't happen. Although it could provide useable internet anywhere in the world whiteout the need of specialized equipment.

Yeah, I was more meaning faster than we often get on ground based LTE/5G where the bottleneck is the local telcos network or congestion.

We don't really need any faster than a good LTE connection to Starlink to make it awesome. For mobile applications that is good enough, if more is needed you can use a proper starlink mini dish.

[Psi]

Na. It's LEO. While there are some risks from collisions throwing things up into higher orbits, LEO mostly cleans itself automatically in time scales that don't screw you over for that long.
It's MEO and GEO where you can get serious Kessler issues that cut off your access to space for many generations.

"that long" can mean a human life time. .., low earth orbit can be a generation problem.

A human life/generational timescale is way too excessive for a LEO incident, 5-10 years to clear enough of it to be usable again is more realistic.

[Cyclotron]

Na. It's LEO. While there are some risks from collisions throwing things up into higher orbits, LEO mostly cleans itself automatically in time scales that don't screw you over for that long.
It's MEO and GEO where you can get serious Kessler issues that cut off your access to space for many generations.

"that long" can mean a human life time. .., low earth orbit can be a generation problem.

A human life/generational is way too excessive for a LEO incident, 5-10 years to clear enough of it to be usable again is more realistic.

I worry more about seeing the "next" Carrington-level event than Kessler issues; at least in my lifetime.

[Psi]

Na. It's LEO. While there are some risks from collisions throwing things up into higher orbits, LEO mostly cleans itself automatically in time scales that don't screw you over for that long.
It's MEO and GEO where you can get serious Kessler issues that cut off your access to space for many generations.

"that long" can mean a human life time. .., low earth orbit can be a generation problem.

A human life/generational is way too excessive for a LEO incident, 5-10 years to clear enough of it to be usable again is more realistic.

I worry more about seeing the "next" Carrington-level event than Kessler issues; at least in my lifetime.

Agreed, I think that is far more likely than a Kessler incident. 

As far as Kessler goes, we're all aware of Kessler syndrome and can calculate the risks. It's unlikely to get to the point where the orbital bands are so full that one spark can set off a huge Kessler incident. 
It's more likely a smaller incident will happen that causes some minor, but annoying, damage to a number of countries sats which brings all countries to the table to hammer out some rules and consequences for violating them.
Especially as more and more people are working in space.

[coppercone2]

I would imagine it would have to be an artificial creation, I think the only thing that comes close would be naval mining (i.e. strait of hormuz) , as is sometimes threatened in various places. Now you can probobly deal with it a little, but 50 years ago it was a nightmare, with dumb mines and no good detectors.. conceptually its similar in the sense that risk went up greatly in certain areas because of stuff floating around

I think NASA/SPACE force/space x/other space stuff is pretty paranoid about it, enough to stop it from happening badly due to accidents.

[5U4GB]

Speaking of Kessler syndrome, SpaceX Alleges a Chinese-Deployed Satellite Risked Colliding With Starlink.

[Psi]

Speaking of Kessler syndrome, SpaceX Alleges a Chinese-Deployed Satellite Risked Colliding With Starlink.

Were in the "Na, it'll be fine" period atm.
We need to get through that, and then through the "Oh this might actually be an issue" stage and finally to the "Ok, that can't happen again, lets address this now" phase.

[Dan N]

In October I was looking at comet Lemmon through my telescope and in 10 minutes 6 satellites passed across the small field of view.  Now I totally understand why astronomers hate these massive satellite constellations.

[themadhippy]

governments are missing a trick here,they already claim the ground under and over your land as theirs,so extend that out to space and start charging road space tax for using our space

[tszaboo]

What you may need to really achieve a fundamental breakthrough in this technology is a physically small starlink modem with a small antenna, say as large as today's GPS modules.. 

That's any cell phone or smart device with LTE band 25.

Speaking of Kessler syndrome, SpaceX Alleges a Chinese-Deployed Satellite Risked Colliding With Starlink.

AFAIK anything on LEO will decay or will be so elliptical that it will burn up.

[harerod]

governments are missing a trick here,they already claim the ground under and over your land as theirs,so extend that out to space and start charging road space tax for using our space

Reminds me of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon

[tom66]

My boss has Starlink roaming for when he goes on business trips.  Says it's cheaper than cellular roaming if you visit as many places as he does (20+ flights a year).  Not sure myself but works for him.

[5U4GB]

Reminds me of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon
[/quote]

Better to sell it than to nuke it as the US wanted to do.

[Cyclotron]

Reminds me of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon

Better to sell it than to nuke it as the US wanted to do.

I think it's a stretch to claim the US "wanted" to do it. There's a lot of crazy ass plans drawn up in backrooms and so forth that never go anywhere.  Fire Bombs that used bats? Yup! Bombs that used pigeons? Yup!  Cats that had a listening device? yup.  How about tungsten telephone poles from space?

These are the "plans" or ideas that we know about. There are untold numbers that remain secret or are even ready to go or implemented, I'm sure.

[Halcyon]

I did a speedtest right now. It's 6 PM, people are getting home from work. 300 Mbps. Good enough for me.

~30ms ping with satellite internet is amazingly low.

At the family's for Christmas. They are on Starlink. Getting a stable 446 Mbps down and 54 Mbps up. 26ms ping back to Sydney. Not too shabby at all.

https://www.speedtest.net/result/18634830996

[Psi]

I did a speedtest right now. It's 6 PM, people are getting home from work. 300 Mbps. Good enough for me.

~30ms ping with satellite internet is amazingly low.

yep, Starlink orbits are extremely close to earth, when looking at a typical sized school globe the sats are 1.2cm above the surface.
In comparison, with a fixed dish pointing at a GEO internet sat the sat is 500-800cm above the school globe.

[Stray Electron]

Reminds me of this book: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Who_Sold_the_Moon

Better to sell it than to nuke it as the US wanted to do.
[/quote]

   I can't say that I ever heard this idea but it sounds like something that Dr Edward Teller would propose. He was a certifiable lunatic IMO! He made a serious proposal that the US built a new, larger Panama Canal, and instead of digging it out he wanted blast a serious of craters all of the way across Central America using a series of Hydrogen Bombs.  He also proposed digging a smaller canal in Alaska as a demonstration project and that proposal was given very serious consideration within the US Gov and the .MIL

  The character Dr Strangelove was based on Edward Teller!  If any of you haven't seen the movie then you should!

[jayk]

Does anyone know the breakdown between commercial and government revenue for Starlink?  I suspect it's mostly government... their network is really perfect for lots of government applications.  Since they're still private I'm not sure how much data they even need to publish, so might be unknowable at this point.

[Stray Electron]

Does anyone know the breakdown between commercial and government revenue for Starlink?  I suspect it's mostly government... their network is really perfect for lots of government applications.  Since they're still private I'm not sure how much data they even need to publish, so might be unknowable at this point.

   I don't but I'll throw this in; my wife was the technical manager of the business computer systems for one of the largest telephone companies in the United States and the various state, federal and local governments was their largest customer by far.  There was nothing Nefarious going on (as far as we know!) but The Government is a massive operation and as you would probably expect they're a major users of the telephone system and I expect that that is probably true in every country. 

   My father helped install some of the telephone systems at KSC MANY years ago and even their telephone system dwarfs that of most cities.