Overpriced Stuff........

[coppice]

Currently overpriced stuff is almost everything and they say it's just the beginning.

If people are buying stuff, then by definition that stuff cannot be overpriced.

Expensive or too expensive, yes. But not overpriced.

That's a weird definition you have. Some things, like basic foods, have to be bought to survive. If those are being priced, by cartel or other means, well above a reasonable profit margin most people would say they are overpriced.

[tggzzz]

Currently overpriced stuff is almost everything and they say it's just the beginning.

If people are buying stuff, then by definition that stuff cannot be overpriced.

Expensive or too expensive, yes. But not overpriced.

That's a weird definition you have. Some things, like basic foods, have to be bought to survive. If those are being priced, by cartel or other means, well above a reasonable profit margin most people would say they are overpriced.

We are considering discretionary purchases, not life-critical purchases.

Define "reasonable". "I don't want to afford it" isn't a useful definition!

The cause of something being incredibly very expensive needs to be understood. If criminal activity is involved, that activity needs to be dealt with. "Cornering the market" and "demand outstripping supply" and "alternative/diverse investment" are rarely criminal. Start by considering, for example, the price of gold and diamonds

[coppice]

Currently overpriced stuff is almost everything and they say it's just the beginning.

If people are buying stuff, then by definition that stuff cannot be overpriced.

Expensive or too expensive, yes. But not overpriced.

That's a weird definition you have. Some things, like basic foods, have to be bought to survive. If those are being priced, by cartel or other means, well above a reasonable profit margin most people would say they are overpriced.

We are considering discretionary purchases, not life-critical purchases.

Define "reasonable". "I don't want to afford it" isn't a useful definition!

The cause of something being incredibly very expensive needs to be understood. If criminal activity is involved, that activity needs to be dealt with. "Cornering the market" and "demand outstripping supply" and "alternative/diverse investment" are rarely criminal. Start by considering, for example, the price of gold and diamonds

If you set aside essentials and near essentials, all prices are the same - what the market will bear.

[tggzzz]

Currently overpriced stuff is almost everything and they say it's just the beginning.

If people are buying stuff, then by definition that stuff cannot be overpriced.

Expensive or too expensive, yes. But not overpriced.

That's a weird definition you have. Some things, like basic foods, have to be bought to survive. If those are being priced, by cartel or other means, well above a reasonable profit margin most people would say they are overpriced.

We are considering discretionary purchases, not life-critical purchases.

Define "reasonable". "I don't want to afford it" isn't a useful definition!

The cause of something being incredibly very expensive needs to be understood. If criminal activity is involved, that activity needs to be dealt with. "Cornering the market" and "demand outstripping supply" and "alternative/diverse investment" are rarely criminal. Start by considering, for example, the price of gold and diamonds

If you set aside essentials and near essentials, all prices are the same - what the market will bear.

Pretty much so.

Consequently something cannot be overpriced, except by comparison to the price for an equivalent item. In such cases, just buy the equivalent item.

It is, of course, normal for many things to be "more expensive than I can afford". That's life.

[p.larner]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

[SiliconWizard]

Well, according to the Cambridge dictionary:
overpriced: (of goods or services) more expensive than it should be

So, yeah. If we're gonna pick on words.
Something that the market cannot bear is not overpriced, it's just unsellable.

[coppice]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Where did you buy from? Most suppliers in the UK charge very high prices for rechargeable batteries in small volumes. Small volumes of components are generally susceptible to crazy pricing.

[tautech]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Shipping.
Suppliers must now disclose when a product contains Lithium batteries and then shipping rates double !

It seems that despite some products supply battery risk documentation, shippers as yet don't seem to be able to read or understand.

[tggzzz]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Shipping.
Suppliers must now disclose when a product contains Lithium batteries and then shipping rates double !

It seems that despite some products supply battery risk documentation, shippers as yet don't seem to be able to read or understand.

I imagine insurance companies are demanding higher premiums for transporting those infernal (pun intended) batteries. Those costs are passed onto the customer, unsurprisingly.
For example:
two 747 crashes: https://www.flyingmag.com/news-ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6
one incident per week: https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/03/03/faa-lithium-battery-fire-smoke-airplane/
and many fires in UK refuse collection trucks and sites are (rightly or wrongly) being attributed to lithium cells/batteries.

[tautech]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Shipping.
Suppliers must now disclose when a product contains Lithium batteries and then shipping rates double !

It seems that despite some products supply battery risk documentation, shippers as yet don't seem to be able to read or understand.

I imagine insurance companies are demanding higher premiums for transporting those infernal (pun intended) batteries. Those costs are passed onto the customer, unsurprisingly.
For example:
two 747 crashes: https://www.flyingmag.com/news-ups-747-crash-highlights-lithium-battery-danger/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UPS_Airlines_Flight_6
one incident per week: https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/03/03/faa-lithium-battery-fire-smoke-airplane/
and many fires in UK refuse collection trucks and sites are (rightly or wrongly) being attributed to lithium cells/batteries.

Yep all that.

However when Li batteries are produced and packaged to international standards and disconnected from the instrument/device they power the risk they propose is very very low.
Different forwarders/shippers also assess the risks very differently.

In time there will be better understanding of any actual shipping risk involved and authorities may decide Li batteries must not be connected/plugged into the device they supply power to.
The addition of a battery plug and socket also provides benefits to the end user and the environment with less thrown away devices when batteries have failed.

We can only hope such evolution is accompanied with common sense.

[tggzzz]

Well, yes. But common sense isn't common

Then there is the issue of the ignorant, the wilfully ignorant, and those.that the rules don't apply to.

Not sure how you can overcome human stupidity and malice

[Berni]

Then i go buy a tiny primary lithium coin cell battery for keeping a RTC running, and suddenly nobody wants to ship it, the box is covered in stickers like it contains a nuclear warhead..etc

It is a frigging coin cell... you couldn't even start a fire with one if you tried to. Hit it with a hammer nothing happens.Short the terminals with a thin filament of wire, the voltage drops to 0 because the internal resistance is huge.

[tggzzz]

Then i go buy a tiny primary lithium coin cell battery for keeping a RTC running, and suddenly nobody wants to ship it, the box is covered in stickers like it contains a nuclear warhead..etc

It is a frigging coin cell... you couldn't even start a fire with one if you tried to. Hit it with a hammer nothing happens.Short the terminals with a thin filament of wire, the voltage drops to 0 because the internal resistance is huge.

Unfortunately rules have to be formulated so that a random person not skilled in the art can understand and interpret them.

I first came across the alternative in the 70s, when VAT was first introduced for luxury items only. That lead to one XµF capacitor having tax added whereas another XµF capacitor was tax free. Why? Because the first capacitor was used in TVs which were classed as luxury items[1].

Funny? We laughed until we cried.

[1]Yes Virginia, once upon a time a measure of the improving economy was the proportion of households that had TVs

[SiliconWizard]

Then i go buy a tiny primary lithium coin cell battery for keeping a RTC running, and suddenly nobody wants to ship it, the box is covered in stickers like it contains a nuclear warhead..etc

It is a frigging coin cell... you couldn't even start a fire with one if you tried to. Hit it with a hammer nothing happens.Short the terminals with a thin filament of wire, the voltage drops to 0 because the internal resistance is huge.

Well, blame your lawmakers if you think some laws don't have scientific backing. Aren't you supposed to live in a democracy?

[tautech]

Then i go buy a tiny primary lithium coin cell battery for keeping a RTC running, and suddenly nobody wants to ship it, the box is covered in stickers like it contains a nuclear warhead..etc

It is a frigging coin cell... you couldn't even start a fire with one if you tried to. Hit it with a hammer nothing happens.Short the terminals with a thin filament of wire, the voltage drops to 0 because the internal resistance is huge.

Well, blame your lawmakers if you think some laws don't have scientific backing. Aren't you supposed to live in a democracy?

Yeah right.
Lawmakers rely on gubbermint employees to advise them and their knowledge of things technical touches both extremes.

Let me present a 3V 1000Ah lithium cell vs a 3V coin cell:





All the Bureaucrap knows they are both Lithium and to classify their risk would be too hard and instead of doing proper work lump them both into the same category. 

[rsjsouza]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Shipping.
Suppliers must now disclose when a product contains Lithium batteries and then shipping rates double !

It seems that despite some products supply battery risk documentation, shippers as yet don't seem to be able to read or understand.

I don't think those shipping disclose clauses are new - I have purchases dating back to early 2010s (CR2302 Lithium batteries) that took a lot longer due to being shipped via ground.

Yep all that.

However when Li batteries are produced and packaged to international standards and disconnected from the instrument/device they power the risk they propose is very very low.

100%.

Also, if they are shipped with a low charge (20, 30%) the risk is mitigated by a huge factor. Lately I have seen LiIon products being shipped with close to 80% of charge - most probably due to the factor the distribution network is now so vast (including Aliexpress, Banggood and others) that it becomes almost impossible to manage stock and educate everyone.

[tautech]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Shipping.
Suppliers must now disclose when a product contains Lithium batteries and then shipping rates double !

It seems that despite some products supply battery risk documentation, shippers as yet don't seem to be able to read or understand.

I don't think those shipping disclose clauses are new - I have purchases dating back to early 2010s (CR2302 Lithium batteries) that took a lot longer due to being shipped via ground.

Most of our stock is by sea freight however try and formally include a Lithium powered device and shipping rates double.
Yet the worldwide express couriers better understand Lithium risks so they get the business and we get the goods in half the time albeit at rates we need add onto that equipment. 

[tggzzz]

dont know if it counts but about 18 months ago i was buying batterys to build a 16s  16ahlifepo4 pack,i got most of the cells new but was about 25 short,recently i tried to get the rest to build the pack,they had increased in price by 500% same battery same seller,Whats that about?.

Shipping.
Suppliers must now disclose when a product contains Lithium batteries and then shipping rates double !

It seems that despite some products supply battery risk documentation, shippers as yet don't seem to be able to read or understand.

I don't think those shipping disclose clauses are new - I have purchases dating back to early 2010s (CR2302 Lithium batteries) that took a lot longer due to being shipped via ground.

Most of our stock is by sea freight however try and formally include a Lithium powered device and shipping rates double.
Yet the worldwide express couriers better understand Lithium risks so they get the business and we get the goods in half the time albeit at rates we need add onto that equipment. 

The little I have seen in the past is along the lines of "if it is part of the equipment and inside it, then no problem".

No, I don't understand that rationale, other than "we don't want it flying around and leaking everywhere when crushed by somebody else's package or gorillas".

[tautech]

Gorilla's are the greatest risk when unplugged and in its own packaging tucked into a custom recess on foam packing and all in a double boxed enclosure.
I mean what could possibly go wrong .....oh yes it has the mandatory Lithium battery inside labelling and therefore must be treated as highly hazardous cargo. 
Gimme a break.

[coppice]

Gorilla's are the greatest risk when unplugged and in its own packaging tucked into a custom recess on foam packing and all in a double boxed enclosure.
I mean what could possibly go wrong .....oh yes it has the mandatory Lithium battery inside labelling and therefore must be treated as highly hazardous cargo. 
Gimme a break.

That's why the make that Gorilla glue and Gorilla tape, to keep them in place.

[tggzzz]

Gorilla's are the greatest risk when unplugged and in its own packaging tucked into a custom recess on foam packing and all in a double boxed enclosure.
I mean what could possibly go wrong .....oh yes it has the mandatory Lithium battery inside labelling and therefore must be treated as highly hazardous cargo. 
Gimme a break.

That's why the make that Gorilla glue and Gorilla tape, to keep them in place.

Doesn't work. Somehow the gorillas always escape and proceed to wreak their havoc

[armandine2]

not a fan of my gear going u.s. by way of the "sticky rubber feel"  - A Bose volume control to a computer speaker kit went that way a while ago.

And I've just noticed my two Zoom hand recorders (H4n and H5) have gone sticky too.

..so they look like they turned out to be overpriced 

[thm_w]

Then i go buy a tiny primary lithium coin cell battery for keeping a RTC running, and suddenly nobody wants to ship it, the box is covered in stickers like it contains a nuclear warhead..etc

It is a frigging coin cell... you couldn't even start a fire with one if you tried to. Hit it with a hammer nothing happens.Short the terminals with a thin filament of wire, the voltage drops to 0 because the internal resistance is huge.

I've had CR2430's pop and burn up causing smoke, no idea how hot they got as I wasn't around when it happened. Very rare (1 in 10,000) but happens.
You can see a photo here where the plastic was burned: https://www.reddit.com/r/batteries/comments/eoe60o/cr2032_exploded_in_our_junk_drawer_any/

[nigelwright7557]

The trick is to shop around.
I wanted some AD9201 analogue to digital converters.
They were £15+VAT each in UK.
Got some off Ali Express for about £1-50 each and they worked fine.

However you have to be wary of quality of goods not from reputable dealers.