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General => General Chat => Topic started by: Lawsen on June 06, 2011, 02:08:56 am

Title: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Lawsen on June 06, 2011, 02:08:56 am
Pakistan returned the wreckage of the blown up U.S. Navy Seals UH-60 helicopter pieces and tail rotor assembly back to the U.S.    The UH-60 helicopter malfunctioned by over heated from the sound insulation helicopter that was blown up to smithereens by the Seals commando forces during the invasion and execution.  Sound insulation was used to muffled the noise from the engine and mechanics and carbon RADAR absorbing paint are on the UH-60 body.  Seals have their special helicopter, so this is a warning to non Americans and Americans reading this, that an UH-60 can sneak into your house (my mother's house) and electronics bench if the U.S. feels that you (I) are not compliant.  Does Australia has a commando force like the Seals?  Does Australia has a stealth helicopter, too?  Pakistan warned the U.S.A. to never invade their country like this again.  Pakistan will forgive my U.S.A. just this once for reason of law enforcement and execution.

Lawsen
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 06, 2011, 03:42:26 am
I do not know what Australia haves.

I can only speak for Greece,
that haves the best pilots world wide,
they won at every NATO exercises  ( dog fights) .

The Greek air space is monitored day and night, with radars and flying patrols.
We have lots of commandos and special forces.
And we are the only Mediterranean country ready to engage in a war , in 5 minutes by Air,
and a bit more for the ground forces.

No worry's from my end.  
Ans I am not trained to comply to any one else than my Flag.

And the bottom line is, that there is no better and superior weapon,
than the determent fearless soldier.
I am ready to die for the flag, I do not fear death.
  

Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 06, 2011, 04:17:01 am
I can only speak for Greece,
1) The Greek air space is monitored day and night, with radars and flying patrols.
2) And we are the only Mediterranean country ready to engage in a war , in 5 minutes by Air,
1) not with the USA stealth machines. thats what they do and nobody give a shit about it, because they are world police and they like to invade other peoples country.
2) ready for the war only, but not to win it, by the massive of US armada (ground, sea, air), they can round the globe in a day, they have they posts in every countries, and again, nobody give a shit about it. they will hunt down any country for the reason there is a nuclear trace on your shirt.

i remember last time an US submarine just emerge out of nowhere in the middle of our country, and the marine army got into super chaos, luckily they not intend to attack us, its just our sea is too shalow for them. thats what they capable of, come out of your toilet hole in home without knowing their presence.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Uncle Vernon on June 06, 2011, 04:35:46 am
I do not know what Australia haves.
Be very afraid !!!
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LvPk2b6P1eA/TNAKowye19I/AAAAAAAAAts/UscGhVKTES8/s1600/New_Zealand_Army_Soldier.jpg)
Melbourne also has legions of Greek pilots you can see one taxi-ing in the image below.
(http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2010/08/15/1225905/470833-taxi-melbourne.jpg)
Quote
I can only speak for Greece,
that haves the best pilots world wide,
Perhaps but in naval terms are you any match for New Zealand
(http://stuffucanuse.com/more_images/nz_navy.jpg)
Quote
they won at every NATO exercises  ( dog fights) .
(http://www.speakingforspot.com/Images/DogAirplaneDallasPoochParade.JPG)
Quote
The Greek air space is monitored day and night
(http://www.mitchellteachers.net/WorldHistory/AncientGreece/Images/HipparchusTrans.jpg)
Quote
We have lots of commandos and special forces.
And we are the only Mediterranean country ready to engage in a war , in 5 minutes by Air,
and a bit more for the ground forces.

(http://evdr.net/index-images/icarus-web.jpg)
Quote
And the bottom line is, that there is no better and superior weapon,
than the determent fearless soldier.
Someone convinced the jackasses below with similar propaganda
(http://images.defensetech.org/images/taliban.jpg)
Quote
I am ready to die for the flag, I do not fear death.
Then you need to buy one of these  ;D
(http://images.drive.com.au/drive_images/Editorial/2009/06/24/Graet-Wall-Motors1_m_m.jpg)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 06, 2011, 05:05:49 am
LOL. i didnt know the yagi antenna is used to watch over stars. and that ground force guy is cute! :D
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Uncle Vernon on June 06, 2011, 05:14:04 am
LOL. i didnt know the yagi antenna is used to watch over stars. and that ground force guy is cute! :D
Ground forces? That's Flight Lieutenant Icarus!
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Zad on June 06, 2011, 05:19:41 am
I think somebody misunderstands the nature of stealth. Trust me, when it comes to aircraft of this size, stealth is a very relative term when it comes to acoustic attenuation. Airwolf and Blue Thunder were not documentaries.

If the US crosses the Pakistan border again to take out a terrorist at the level Osama Bin Laden was, Pakistan is going to do precisely what? Send back the several billion dollars a year they get in aid from the US ($18 Billion over the last 10 years) together with a terse note? The best tactical missile Pakistan has, has a range of 2,500km. It also has a neighbour with an itchy trigger finger.

Please don't lets have a handbag fight about whose armed forces are best. Everyone knows their country's forces are best, and it inevitably degenerates into name calling.

Personally, I prefer a highly trained professional who is experienced in staying alive to one who will nobly die for his cause. A dead soldier is a useless soldier, no matter what his cause.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 06, 2011, 10:47:08 am
I can only speak for Greece,
1) The Greek air space is monitored day and night, with radars and flying patrols.
2) And we are the only Mediterranean country ready to engage in a war , in 5 minutes by Air,
1) not with the USA stealth machines. thats what they do and nobody give a shit about it, because they are world police and they like to invade other peoples country.
2) ready for the war only, but not to win it, by the massive of US armada (ground, sea, air), they can round the globe in a day, they have they posts in every countries, and again, nobody give a shit about it. they will hunt down any country for the reason there is a nuclear trace on your shirt.

i remember last time an US submarine just emerge out of nowhere in the middle of our country, and the marine army got into super chaos, luckily they not intend to attack us, its just our sea is too shalow for them. thats what they capable of, come out of your toilet hole in home without knowing their presence.


I do not know how free are the media like TV press in its ones country,
but in Greece they hide very less as info of what happens far from our borders.
There is lots of debris of this overestimated  technology scattered in many countries.
And for me the stealth hype is an overestimated characteristic.
As long they can get filled with holes from my 50 caliber, they are not something magic.

And about Greeks they have use to fight as outnumbered, and still do a major damage.
I truly do not like to expand my view further, about the Americans and their war games,
it is my sensitive spot, and usually when I speak in full about my thoughts, I get banned from the forums.
   
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Ferroto on June 06, 2011, 10:55:56 am
That's nothing we Canadians will field these guys.

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/shawn6901/lumberjack-commandos.jpg)

And they'll be armed with these.

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/shawn6901/rocketpropeledchainsaw.jpg)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Ed.Kloonk on June 06, 2011, 05:52:12 pm
If you ever get the chance, visit the Lithgow gun factory, now a museum. Worth a look if you are a gun freak. Check the website for opening hours tho..

Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 06, 2011, 07:19:03 pm
The Greek air space is monitored day and night, with radars and flying patrols.

We also monitor the air space here in the UK - permanently, with short breaks for morning and afternoon tea.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 06, 2011, 08:01:23 pm
The Greek air space is monitored day and night, with radars and flying patrols.

We also monitor the air space here in the UK - permanently, with short breaks for morning and afternoon tea.

Do you still use those harrier ones ? 

If we had some of those , we would possibly drink our tea , with out to stop flying   ;)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: firewalker on June 06, 2011, 08:21:36 pm
One of the best urban legents.

Quote
A report has revealed that two traffic patrol officers from North Berwick were involved in an unusual incident whilst checking for speeding motorists on the A1 road between Oldhamstocks and Grantshouse.

Last May, they were using a hand-held radar device to trap unwary motorists on the Edinburgh to London trunk road. One of the unnamed officers used the device to check the speed of an approaching vehicle, and was surprised to find that his target had registered a speed in excess of 300 miles per hour. The £5000 machine then seized up and could not be reset by the bemused PC's. The radar had in fact latched on to a NATO Tornado aircraft in the North Sea, which was taking part in a simulated low-flying exercise over the Borders and Southern Scotland.

Following a complaint by Sir William Sutherland, Chief Constable of the Lothian & Borders Police force to the RAF liaison office, it was revealed that the officers had a lucky escape - the tactical computer on board the aircraft not only detected and jammed the "hostile" radar equipment, but had automatically armed a Sidewinder air-to-ground missile ready to neutralize the perceived threat. Luckily the Dutch pilot was alerted to the missile status and was able to override the automatic protection system before the missile launched.

The Police have so far declined to comment, although it is understood that officers will be advised to point their radar guns inland in future.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 06, 2011, 08:24:19 pm
Do you still use those harrier ones ? 
If we had some of those , we would possibly drink our tea , with out to stop flying   ;)

Unfortunately not, they were retired last year.   >:(

You can still pick an odd one on eBay (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1352943/eBay-sale-The-Harrier-jump-jet-69-999.html) but I am not sure if you Greece can borrow that much still  :)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 06, 2011, 08:30:57 pm
Do you still use those harrier ones ? 
If we had some of those , we would possibly drink our tea , with out to stop flying   ;)

Unfortunately not, they were retired last year.   >:(

You can still pick an odd one on eBay (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1352943/eBay-sale-The-Harrier-jump-jet-69-999.html) but I am not sure if you Greece can borrow that much still  :)

Basically in few months from now not even the Americans will be able to borrow,  and so the score board will become 1-1  :)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 06, 2011, 08:45:23 pm
Basically in few months from now not even the Americans will be able to borrow,  and so the score board will become 1-1  :)

I know you guys are big patriots and all but yanks are truly beyond reach in this game.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_YtR64k69FHM/TTdOyTcWJGI/AAAAAAAAA4A/WWHtQxWGDBs/s1600/%2528%2529+a+us_national_debt_chart_20101.gif)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Zero999 on June 06, 2011, 08:52:22 pm
Is that graph adjusted for inflation and economic growth?

If not, it doesn't look as bad as it may seem, borrowing is bound to track inflation, GDP and spending  which are obviously exponential.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 06, 2011, 09:07:46 pm
Is that graph adjusted for inflation and economic growth?
If not, it doesn't look as bad as it may seem, borrowing is bound to track inflation, GDP and spending  which are obviously exponential.

Sure, it will blow over.  Governments are full of clever hard working people.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ilikepez on June 07, 2011, 06:57:33 am
America #1 in everything! Including the number of idiots we have living here! We get the cream of the crop from all over the world too!  ;D

I'm kind of tired of this whole nationalism thing. I like Greece, I like the United Kingdom, I like Australia too. All good people and friends of our country for years despite our disagreements. Hopefully the idiocy in America will die down some day soon.

But please remember when you are having an Anti-American tirade a majority of us voted against Bush.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 07, 2011, 09:18:44 am
[youtube]wgNuSEZ8CDw[/youtube]

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 07, 2011, 10:46:08 am
I'm kind of tired of this whole nationalism thing. I like Greece, I like the United Kingdom, I like Australia too. All good people and friends of our country for years despite our disagreements. Hopefully the idiocy in America will die down some day soon.

I never understood what nationalism as all about.  
You are my friend until proven otherwise.  But I am not a friend of US government and privately associated crap like the Fed.  
Same goes for UK government and BoE who cheese this country off left right and centre.  Always did and always will.

Two ordinary people from completely different countries have more in common than they have with their respective national officials living off them.

A farmer normally does not wake up one day, goes to another country and kills another farmer.  But he does when his government tells him to.  This amazes me.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 07, 2011, 11:53:40 am
A farmer normally does not wake up one day, goes to another country and kills another farmer.  But he does when his government tells him to.  This amazes me.
true! goverment DH, not matter from where.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: the_raptor on June 07, 2011, 01:31:04 pm
Is that graph adjusted for inflation and economic growth?

If not, it doesn't look as bad as it may seem, borrowing is bound to track inflation, GDP and spending  which are obviously exponential.

Here is one that is.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/US_Federal_Debt_as_Percent_of_GDP_by_President.jpg)

So with a few more years of the "War on terror" (incredibly likely with the rampant instability in the middle east) it will equal the height of WWII*. That isn't even considering the ongoing collapse of American manufacturing, the looming social security time bomb, peak oil, China expanding its internal market, possibility of another "Global Financial Crisis" etc.

Basically the US (and several other Western countries) are screwed and just playing a game of pass the parcel. Except inside the parcel is national bankruptcy and economic collapse due to bread and circuses democracy. Start learning Mandarin and Cantonese.

* When the US had the worlds biggest manufacturing base, almost zero competition due to the war in Europe, and was in total war mode.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: A-sic Enginerd on June 07, 2011, 04:06:17 pm
That's nothing we Canadians will field these guys.

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/shawn6901/lumberjack-commandos.jpg)

And they'll be armed with these.

(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/shawn6901/rocketpropeledchainsaw.jpg)

:D :D :D :D

That's classic.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ngkee22 on June 07, 2011, 07:10:14 pm
I will agree that the US government is on the wrong track.  Our current leaders want to spend their way out of debt.  Somehow that never works for me. They keep promising things that just can't happen.  You can't say you will take care of everyone and provide all these services and still cut spending.   Government math models don't make sense.  I think a few buttons are broken on their calculators.  Too many people here want to be taken care of and not work for what they need to survive. 

As for the manufacturing here, we need to fix that too.  Too much of it has left to other places, we can't even make simple parts here.  When the Japan earthquake hit, we had several car manufacturing lines shut down for all major manufactures because we couldn't get parts.  I'm all for other countries helping each other out, but I don't think it is good to place too much in one location.  Same as in business, if you have only one customer, you probably won't be in business too long.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 07, 2011, 08:25:53 pm
I will agree that the US government is on the wrong track.  Our current leaders want to spend their way out of debt.  Somehow that never works for me.

Debt is slavery.  People / govt do not understand that by borrowing heavily they are giving away their future, freedom and rights to the lender.  So much for abolition of slavery...

Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 07, 2011, 09:04:37 pm
Debt is slavery.
Debt with interest is.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 07, 2011, 09:38:35 pm
Debt is slavery.
Debt with interest is.


Any debt is.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 07, 2011, 09:43:30 pm
Debt is slavery.
Debt with interest is.


I agree, and I will add and the words as excessive greed.

The loans was a tool, that it was created to assist people.
Since the moment that bankers started to misuse the tool,
it became an time bomb, it will explode as all time bombs do,
but the explosion will bring them down too.

Currently there is only one solution.
Zero depth for all, countries and citizens.
And them an general reboot of the banking system, with more fair play this time.
    
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ngkee22 on June 07, 2011, 10:59:41 pm


I agree, and I will add and the words as excessive greed.

And them an general reboot of the banking system, with more fair play this time.
    

[/quote]

I agree, the greed is out of control.  I've started paying cash for what I need except for housing or vehicles.  If I don't have the cash I don't need it.

I thought that if they let some of the large banks fail, it would allow a reboot of the system.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 07, 2011, 11:40:05 pm
I will agree that the US government is on the wrong track.  Our current leaders want to spend their way out of debt.  Somehow that never works for me. They keep promising things that just can't happen.  You can't say you will take care of everyone and provide all these services and still cut spending.   Government math models don't make sense.  I think a few buttons are broken on their calculators.

No, their calculators are working just fine, they have it all figured out.
Like all politicians, their calculations are only based on the next election and the financial interest of their backers (hint, that's not the people).
What's the problem with that  ::)

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 08, 2011, 12:08:50 am
Well lets examine and what mythology has to say about the problem..  ;)

King Midas
http://www.hipark.austin.isd.tenet.edu/mythology/midas.html (http://www.hipark.austin.isd.tenet.edu/mythology/midas.html)

Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ngkee22 on June 08, 2011, 12:32:29 am
Anytime they are running for office they have all the answers.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: PetrosA on June 08, 2011, 03:00:51 am
When it comes to politics, the problem isn't the politicians, as much as we'd like to think so. The problem is the people. There are no special interest groups or shadow powers in any country strong enough to steer policy away from what the public really wants but most of the time the public doesn't really want what's best for them. As an example, when Poland got out from under communism in 1989, there was a core group of people who set certain reforms in motions that were very difficult for the average Pole. When I moved there in 1992, every election revolved around slowing down those reforms and that's how it continued for the next 14 years that I stayed. Those reforms made the difference for that country and they're why Poland isn't a Ukraine today, but people bitched and complained and moaned non-stop and did whatever they could to slow things down.

It all boils down to money in your pocket. We have a huge debt here in the US, but don't raise taxes. That would change our ability to have three, four or five TVs, new iPhones every year, keep one or more cars per person in the household, buy organic shampoo, diapers and dish detergent, buy sheets with HD thread counts, spend $15 billion dollars per year on electronic games (numbers from today's news) and in general have a small minority of the people living a lifestyle that's completely disconnected from reality.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: the_raptor on June 08, 2011, 03:18:51 am
I thought that if they let some of the large banks fail, it would allow a reboot of the system.

The problem is that the modern financial system is based on nothing more then peoples confidence in the system. That is the reason for the "spend our way out of debt" thinking. It actually does work to a certain extent. I mean look at Australia at the moment. We came through the GFC pretty good, and the economy is good now, but peoples belief in the system is shot and so spending is down. That in turn means employers will start cutting jobs soon, which means peoples belief in the system will further deteriorate, which means employers will cut more jobs etc. The system is predicated on people making "rational" individual decisions. Unfortunately under certain conditions those "rational" decisions that are best for the individual will be worst for society and we will be in a failure cascade.
 
It isn't like it was before the industrial revolution where financial collapse would really only effect the upper class because the rest of society was not much above subsistence farming (or at worst could return to subsistence farming). These days we have an incredibly complex system just to supply the basics of life, yet this system is run by nothing but pure fantasy and hope. All it takes is a slight shift in confidence in the system and we will have another multi-decade recession.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 08, 2011, 08:02:11 am
Currently there is only one solution. Zero depth for all, countries and citizens.  And them an general reboot of the banking system, with more fair play this time.

This is not going to happen.  
I have no debts at all.  This was conscious and lifestyle limiting decision but now I am a free man and there is no credit crunch for me.
Why should suddenly someone on state benefit with two houses and two cars bought with liar loans and two-three holidays a year for the last 10 years get a "reset"?
No, crash and burn, baby, and I will laugh from the sidelines.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 08, 2011, 08:40:31 am
Currently there is only one solution. Zero depth for all, countries and citizens.  And them an general reboot of the banking system, with more fair play this time.

This is not going to happen.  
I have no debts at all.  This was conscious and lifestyle limiting decision but now I am a free man and there is no credit crunch for me.

Well that's an interesting point of view at list.
Well I will pray to God, to not loose your job, because then every bill even if it has printed on it the amount of one single pound,
it will look to you the same as to was a trillion million of pounds.

By the way do you feel that you have any responsibility for the depths that you country has to the rest of the world ?
Because by stealing the profits of the rest of world, so to maintain your economy in better shape, it is a crime too.   
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 08, 2011, 09:39:04 am
Well that's an interesting point of view at least.
Well I will pray to God, to not loose your job, because then every bill even if it has printed on it the amount of one single pound, it will look to you the same as to was a trillion million of pounds.

Thanks, but I am self-employed, doing what I love to do and my biggest problem is too much business.

Quote
By the way do you feel that you have any responsibility for the depths that you country has to the rest of the world ?  Because by stealing the profits of the rest of world, so to maintain your economy in better shape, it is a crime too.  
LOL. Are you talking about Britain or Russia? I have dual citizenship  Both countries ruled by DHs that royally screwed own and co-depending nations for their own good.

My point is this: average living standards between what we call developed nations vary by maybe a factor of 2-3.  
However inside each country poors live 100+ times worse then the top 1% of the population that by some chance also happen to be people in power.
I'd say to any national patriot: before bragging about how great is (or was) your country, what is your personal share exactly?
You are born into a country by chance [or so I believe] so unless you add something valuable to the pile there is very little value in going on about how great it is.

Kiri, "you" does not mean you personally here. Cheers!
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 08, 2011, 10:30:12 am
Thanks, but I am self-employed, doing what I love to do and my biggest problem is too much business.

Yes nothing personal, do not worry.

Still I have one advice to offer, mostly because I was programed to act as self-employed,
from my own self-employed father.
And this is, start doing savings as much that you can, and keep them away from the bank.
Every disastrous financial change came sudden, and there was not much time for coarse corrections. 

About citizenship I have single, and it will remain so.
No matter the cost.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Zero999 on June 08, 2011, 05:08:51 pm
Here is one that is.
Thanks. I hate it when people post misleading graphs.

So, yes it does look bad but not as bad as the other graph says.

Quote
So with a few more years of the "War on terror" (incredibly likely with the rampant instability in the middle east) it will equal the height of WWII*. That isn't even considering the ongoing collapse of American manufacturing, the looming social security time bomb, peak oil, China expanding its internal market, possibility of another "Global Financial Crisis" etc.
Are you sure it's because of war on this occasion? The debt was relatively low during the cold war and Vietnam.

The government is probably spending too much because the people want public services the government doesn't have the money to pay for so rather than raising taxation (very unpopular) they borrow more money.


Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 08, 2011, 05:24:21 pm
The government is probably spending too much because the people want public services the government doesn't have the money to pay for so rather than raising taxation (very unpopular) they borrow more money.


Oh thanks for the info.  :)
That's how the aircraft carriers with the 2000 people on its one of them called.. " public services "   ;)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 08, 2011, 05:34:16 pm
Thanks. I hate it when people post misleading graphs.

So, yes it does look bad but not as bad as the other graph says.

Yes, go back to sleep.  Things are great.  Debt as percentage of GDP is still low.  It does not matter that huge chunk of GDP consists of people selling each other overpriced houses or shifting around consumer crap made elsewhere.

Ironically growing national debt is causing some of the GDP growth.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: the_raptor on June 09, 2011, 12:06:06 am
Here is one that is.
Thanks. I hate it when people post misleading graphs.

So, yes it does look bad but not as bad as the other graph says.

Quote
So with a few more years of the "War on terror" (incredibly likely with the rampant instability in the middle east) it will equal the height of WWII*. That isn't even considering the ongoing collapse of American manufacturing, the looming social security time bomb, peak oil, China expanding its internal market, possibility of another "Global Financial Crisis" etc.
Are you sure it's because of war on this occasion? The debt was relatively low during the cold war and Vietnam.

The government is probably spending too much because the people want public services the government doesn't have the money to pay for so rather than raising taxation (very unpopular) they borrow more money.


Yes, I think my analysis is right. You can see the debt spike from 2002 onwards. The debt FELL during the Clinton years, and the US Democrats are the social welfare party. The problems with social welfare in the US isn't current spending it is unsecured liabilities (ie it has promised old people a lot of services but doesn't have enough money to actually provide these for the boomers and more recent generations).

Military spending after the Cold War ended dropped to almost nothing. They closed a heap of bases, kept wages low, and had little technological development between 1990 and 2000*. Once the War on Terror kicked off suddenly every infantryman had modern night-vision gear and advanced optical scopes that the Brass had nixed the year before. The cost of gear for the average infantryman went for around $5000 USD to $20,000 - $30,000.

The US debt was low during the Cold War and Vietnam because the US economy was a titan. Go look at Detroit in the 70's compared to Detroit today.

* Nearly every major piece of gear in the US arsenal was developed between 1970 - 1980.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 09, 2011, 06:25:28 am
When it comes to politics, the problem isn't the politicians, as much as we'd like to think so. The problem is the people. There are no special interest groups or shadow powers in any country strong enough to steer policy away from what the public really wants

Err, try the military industrial complex that Eisenhower tried to warn everyone about, but ultimately came true.
Possibly the biggest problem the US has (financially) is it's massive military budget that it keeps convincing everyone it needs (by fear, and corruption), that's how the system works.

Or try any other major lobby group in the US that has so much power it's not funny - the NRA, Jewish lobby, the big financiers, drug companies etc etc

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 09, 2011, 11:01:51 am
Or try any other major lobby group in the US that has so much power it's not funny - the NRA, Jewish lobby, the big financiers, drug companies etc etc
you WILL NOT see this in tv!
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ngkee22 on June 09, 2011, 03:20:07 pm
I'm from Texas, so the NRA is a highly supported organization here.  I was told once there are many more guns in Texas than people.  And it has been that way since the 1800's. This state believes in protecting itself.  I agree with most other people here, I will bury my guns before I let the government come take them.

Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 09, 2011, 03:53:03 pm
I will bury my guns before I let the government come take them.
mind to fedex one here? :D
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ngkee22 on June 09, 2011, 05:30:59 pm
well, then I become an arms dealer and may end up with a SEAL team after me.  I don't think I would win in that argument.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 09, 2011, 08:12:01 pm
I will bury my guns before I let the government come take them.
mind to fedex one here? :D

Good one as joke !!
First of all you have to fix the problem,
that Malaysia cannot Fedex one ti-shirt to Europe !!

If you solve that, I will send you one S-300 so to play with your Rigol.  :D
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Mechatrommer on June 09, 2011, 08:15:47 pm
just declare it as "Gift" problem will be solved ;)
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Kiriakos-GR on June 09, 2011, 08:39:50 pm
Unfortunately there is something more to it,
there is a law that Malaysia cannot export to EU anything that looks or smells like cloth. 
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Uncle Vernon on June 09, 2011, 09:24:14 pm
This state believes in protecting itself.  I agree with most other people here, I will bury my guns before I let the government come take them.
A curious POV given that most shootings are done by the owners own or their families gun. People carry pistols, what use does a pistol have other than shooting people and guess who's most likely to be shot by a carried pistol?
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Ed.Kloonk on June 09, 2011, 09:35:29 pm
I'm from Texas, so the NRA is a highly supported organization here.  I was told once there are many more guns in Texas than people.  And it has been that way since the 1800's. This state believes in protecting itself.  I agree with most other people here, I will bury my guns before I let the government come take them.



In Australia the govt has indeed took ours. Most of us believe there is no need to protect oneself from the State.  ;) Historically there has been no need to be concerned. And from a law perspective, injuring someone with any weapon other than perhaps your own forehead constitutes using excessive force as is frowned upon when you are defending yourself in court. And yet every morning our city (Sydney) is bombarded (excuse the pun) with at least one news story involving a shooting. And probably, more than likely, it involves an illegal gun and we never get to find out the origin of said weapon. We all just assume the guns handed in are just recycled -cough- and somehow end up back in the hands of the nutters.

Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: ngkee22 on June 09, 2011, 10:51:45 pm
most shootings here involve illegal guns and those that shoot themselves probably didn't need a gun.

Here in Texas, if someone comes into your home without permission, you automatically have the right to do what ever is necessary.  This has happened several times where the home owner killed the intruder.  The cops in most cases don't do anything to the homeowner.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Uncle Vernon on June 09, 2011, 11:33:58 pm
most shootings here involve illegal guns
Most illegal guns were once legal guns.

Quote
and those that shoot themselves probably didn't need a gun.
Those shot with their own gun didn't need a gun either. look at just how high the stats are for those shot with their own gun rightfully defending their property. Your odds aren't good.

Quote
Here in Texas, if someone comes into your home without permission, you automatically have the right to do what ever is necessary. This has happened several times where the home owner killed the intruder.
I  have a strong belief a man's home is his castle too. The law here says reasonable force, I'd guess your law doesn't differ too far from that. Pull the trigger and your up to prove your actions were reasonable. A good lawyer can make what is reasonable sound anything but reasonable.

Quote
 The cops in most cases don't do anything to the homeowner.
Most cases? Better hope your protecting  yourself from someone who isn't well connected.

People really need to look at why they want to possess firearms? Sure there are legitimate uses, but the self protection BS doesn't wash, it's universally proven not to work.
When I've needed it I've had access to a rifle, I've got a circular saw that will cut your head off quick smart too. Both are tools and both are sensibly kept locked away safe unless needed. There is no good reason to have things that can kill or mame at arms length all the time.

Ready availability of firearms just escalates the problem, the social misery and paranoia. Same applies at a national level to armed and ready warheads. It's unnecessary and borderline insanity.

 
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 10, 2011, 02:02:25 am
Here in Texas, if someone comes into your home without permission, you automatically have the right to do what ever is necessary.  This has happened several times where the home owner killed the intruder.  The cops in most cases don't do anything to the homeowner.

We have similar laws here in Australia (NSW actually, it's state based), a home invasion law that says you can use reasonable force to defend yourself and your family in your own home. Over and above normal self defense laws.
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/1998-109.pdf (http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/sessionalview/sessional/act/1998-109.pdf)

I can imagine a baseball or cricket bat is MUCH more satisfying than a gun in defending oneself!

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 10, 2011, 02:05:47 am
Ready availability of firearms just escalates the problem, the social misery and paranoia. Same applies at a national level to armed and ready warheads. It's unnecessary and borderline insanity.

I deem that to be quote of the week!

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 10, 2011, 02:23:01 am
And yet every morning our city (Sydney) is bombarded (excuse the pun) with at least one news story involving a shooting.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/carjacking-of-maserati-latest-in-wave-of-gun-crime-20110215-1av7i.html (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/carjacking-of-maserati-latest-in-wave-of-gun-crime-20110215-1av7i.html)

Quote
The Police Commissioner, Andrew Scipione, said statistics showed gun crime had decreased over the past decade. There were 513 crimes involving a gun in the year to September 2010, down from 1128 offences in 2004.

And that's in the entire state of over 7 million people, and very few people actually die as a result.

And maybe half of those in recent times have involved a feud between two rival family criminal gangs.

Indeed, when anyone dies of a gun crime in Australia, it makes the national nightly news.
So it's all a beat up, we have very low gun crime rates here in Sydney and Ausrtalia in the scheme of things.

Compare it with the US states:
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000 (http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000)

Let's take an average figure of 10/100,000
In Sydney if that was the case we'd expect 450 people in Sydney to die of gun related crime per year by US standards. I doubt we even reach 1/100th that figure.

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: PetrosA on June 10, 2011, 02:48:21 am
Err, try the military industrial complex that Eisenhower tried to warn everyone about, but ultimately came true.
Possibly the biggest problem the US has (financially) is it's massive military budget that it keeps convincing everyone it needs (by fear, and corruption), that's how the system works.

Or try any other major lobby group in the US that has so much power it's not funny - the NRA, Jewish lobby, the big financiers, drug companies etc etc

Dave.

Everything you wrote proves my point in that a majority of people here acquiesce to this bullshit. A bunch of us bitch and complain and try to paint a picture of things in a more realistic light, but there are way more people who are content to let things keep going the way they have been. Unless that changes, the politicians will continue down the same path since it insures their re-electability. All humans have problems, but only a very few try and work on them before they really effect their lives.

@mechatrommer: You do see a lot about lobby groups on TV here with the exception of "The Jewish" lobby which is only really discussed in far right wing media. Moderate media will discuss Jewish groups lobbying for various things, but no rational person wants to approach the razor's edge of sounding antisemitic or like an extremist screaming about "commie-jew-masons."
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Zero999 on June 10, 2011, 02:59:34 am
People really need to look at why they want to possess firearms? Sure there are legitimate uses, but the self protection BS doesn't wash, it's universally proven not to work.
Yes, guns are totally useless for self defence, most of the time.

If the attacker has a gun you're dead because they will have drawn their weapon before you can reach yours.

A gun won't protect you against a surprise attack from an unarmed person. A woman carrying a gun won't stop her from being raped by a strong man who'll just pin her down before she can even reach her weapon.

If the attacker has a knife they can stab you before you have chance to draw your weapon.

If someone wants to mug you, they'll sneak up on you behind you back and hit you over the head, they'll distract you so you're not prepared for it.

The only legitimate uses for guns are: hunting, pest control and target practise. The only reason for carrying a gun on the street would be to kill feral foxes.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Leo Bodnar on June 10, 2011, 08:56:44 am
I think a lot of gun appeal comes from movies where two gentlemen have a witty chat over whisky before inflicting quickly healing flesh wound on each other. 
The reality must be ugly and senseless.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Ed.Kloonk on June 10, 2011, 10:41:30 am
And yet every morning our city (Sydney) is bombarded (excuse the pun) with at least one news story involving a shooting.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/carjacking-of-maserati-latest-in-wave-of-gun-crime-20110215-1av7i.html (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/carjacking-of-maserati-latest-in-wave-of-gun-crime-20110215-1av7i.html)

Quote
The Police Commissioner, Andrew Scipione, said statistics showed gun crime had decreased over the past decade. There were 513 crimes involving a gun in the year to September 2010, down from 1128 offences in 2004.

And that's in the entire state of over 7 million people, and very few people actually die as a result.

And maybe half of those in recent times have involved a feud between two rival family criminal gangs.

Indeed, when anyone dies of a gun crime in Australia, it makes the national nightly news.
So it's all a beat up, we have very low gun crime rates here in Sydney and Ausrtalia in the scheme of things.

Compare it with the US states:
http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000 (http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-death-rate-per-100-000)

Let's take an average figure of 10/100,000
In Sydney if that was the case we'd expect 450 people in Sydney to die of gun related crime per year by US standards. I doubt we even reach 1/100th that figure.

Dave.

Point taken. So you are saying I have nothing to worry about worry about worry about worry about...

I know I am safe by staying under the doona.
 ;D
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 10, 2011, 11:31:19 am
Point taken. So you are saying I have nothing to worry about worry about worry about worry about...

I know I am safe by staying under the doona.

The boogie monster and Murphy are real dangers, I advise staying under the doona at least until summer kicks in!

Dave.
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: Uncle Vernon on June 10, 2011, 02:54:56 pm
I know I am safe by staying under the doona.

Heck no it's only a matter of time before some obscure and wholly unsubstantiated link between Doona filling and testicular caner is discovered. Tontine will be exposed the next corporate criminal, the purveyors of The Death Doona.

Hell I once lived in a fibro house so I know if I get lung cancer, piles or alcoholic poisoning any time in the next 70 years, I'll be able to place blame fairly at the Hardie corporation.

We have nationally funded research that is day by day proving that every member of the periodic table is a killer so don't for a moment think anywhere is safe!

Funny old world isn't it, people are certain carbon will kill them and yet they feel quite at ease encouraging cycling on a peak hour motorways?
Title: Re: Pakistan returned the UH-60 Seals stealth helicopter back to the U.S.A.
Post by: EEVblog on June 11, 2011, 04:16:38 am
Funny old world isn't it

I'm convinced the world it batshit crazy.
But hey, I can't talk, I'm contributing to it...

Dave.