Author Topic: Paypal policy update  (Read 10069 times)

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Offline JwallingTopic starter

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Paypal policy update
« on: April 04, 2019, 05:34:07 pm »
I'm surprised that nobody posted about this yet
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

Specifically:

Quote
We’re changing how we treat refunds. If you refund (partially or fully) a transaction to a buyer or a donation to a donor, there are no fees to make the refund, but the fees you originally paid as the seller will not be returned to you.

Ouch! That's going to have a huge impact on Ebay sellers till Paypal is phased out... :--
Jay

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Offline TheSteve

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2019, 05:37:00 pm »
The greed at paypal staggers the imagination.
VE7FM
 

Offline Tomorokoshi

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2019, 06:29:43 pm »
Amazon is basically one big "Buy It Now" site. I'm wondering when they will get into auctions to take on Ebay. If they cut out PayPal with less overhead than Ebay it could be interesting.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2019, 06:51:31 pm »
eBay doesn’t give a crap about auctions. They’d turn them off tomorrow if it didn’t lead to bad PR

This is to punish sellers selling dropshipped crap basically.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2019, 07:29:20 pm »
bah ... on Amazon there is a lot of crap and hoaxes.

I cannot forget when I put a UNIX workstation for sale on eBay, and since there was also included the hard drive with all the software I found when I picked up the machine from a recycler, ... anyway, eBay blocked the auction for asking me clarification about the Copyright.

Then I understood a jerk must have informed them about a suspicious software, something - illegal - he must have decided, and they wanted to investigate.

On Amazon, you can sell whatever you want, and nobody claims.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2019, 07:43:50 pm »
Was that a Sun box? Sun since Oracle turned up are right wankers in that department. I had several copies of Solaris taken down.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2019, 08:06:48 pm »
Was that a Sun box?

SGI MIPS with a couple of Autodesk applications.
Autodesk is not friendly about this.
 

Online magic

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2019, 09:49:16 pm »
Ouch! That's going to have a huge impact on Ebay sellers till Paypal is phased out... :--
Any plans for that or just your dreams?
I would be glad if they ditched PP and allowed direct transfers like Ali but I'm not holding my breath, isn't PP and eBay basically one company?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2019, 09:49:52 pm »
Was that a Sun box?

SGI MIPS with a couple of Autodesk applications.
Autodesk is not friendly about this.

Ahh autodesk - explained. I think they outrank oracle in fuckityness.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2019, 06:06:21 am »
I'm surprised that nobody posted about this yet
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

Specifically:

Quote
We’re changing how we treat refunds. If you refund (partially or fully) a transaction to a buyer or a donation to a donor, there are no fees to make the refund, but the fees you originally paid as the seller will not be returned to you.

Ouch! That's going to have a huge impact on Ebay sellers till Paypal is phased out... :--

Ouch is right! Thanks, Jay, for pointing this out. I hadn't read the details of the recent change.

Ouch! That's going to have a huge impact on Ebay sellers till Paypal is phased out... :--
Any plans for that or just your dreams?
I would be glad if they ditched PP and allowed direct transfers like Ali but I'm not holding my breath, isn't PP and eBay basically one company?

Magic, you might want to consider checking your facts prior to bashing other forum members (perhaps it was just a case of "lost in translation"?). PayPal spun off from eBay almost four years ago. eBay is rolling out their own payment system.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 06:11:01 am by bitseeker »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2019, 06:10:05 am »
The greed at paypal staggers the imagination.

Yes, it certainly does, especially with this bold move. eBay's no saint, either. Hopefully, they won't follow PayPal's lead.
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Online magic

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2019, 07:29:04 am »
Magic, you might want to consider checking your facts prior to bashing other forum members (perhaps it was just a case of "lost in translation"?). PayPal spun off from eBay almost four years ago. eBay is rolling out their own payment system.
Sorry, no offense meant and I sorta implied that I'm out of the loop. I haven't used eBay in years precisely because I refuse to even touch PayPal or credit cards.
Will wait and see what they come up with and if it's any better.
 

Offline JwallingTopic starter

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2019, 02:08:36 pm »
This is to punish sellers selling dropshipped crap basically.

I don't think you're getting it. This is bad for ALL sellers good or bad.

You could sell a $5000 scope, and if it got damaged or lost in shipment you don't get the fees back (as if it wasn't painful enough losing it). Or a buyer just wanted to return it for no good reason other than they changed their mind; same thing.
Jay

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Offline bd139

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2019, 02:29:49 pm »
I haven't had a single return or refund for over 15 years. I've sold around 2000 items £5 to £10k in value each.

This 100% depends how you run your selling outfit.
 

Offline bitseeker

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2019, 05:12:54 pm »
Sorry, no offense meant and I sorta implied that I'm out of the loop. I haven't used eBay in years precisely because I refuse to even touch PayPal or credit cards.
Will wait and see what they come up with and if it's any better.

No worries. I hoped it was unintended. Thanks.

Yeah, we'll just have to see how eBay's payment system works in reality. Although I haven't had anything that I've sold returned to me nor had to partially refund a buyer, I still don't like this concept. With all the competition that's been growing in online payments, it's very surprising that PayPal would do something like this. I guess they feel that they've got sufficient lock-in on their customers, though I'm unclear what would make them feel that way.
TEA is the way. | TEA Time channel
 

Offline jmelson

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2019, 07:13:24 pm »
I haven't had a single return or refund for over 15 years. I've sold around 2000 items £5 to £10k in value each.

This 100% depends how you run your selling outfit.
I occasionally refund a sale of brand new equipment when the buyer decides he bought the wrong thing/it's too complicated or something like that.  I always deduct the shipping, now I'd have to deduct the PayPal fee, too.  Probably most buyers have no idea PayPal takes a 3% fee on domestic and 4% on international payments.

Jon
 

Offline shakalnokturn

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2019, 08:41:11 pm »
I've had my eBay and PayPal accounts since 2008, I can't remember any point when either of them made changes to their policy that made things better. By now I've just about abandoned both, an occasional buy no more selling, when I do buy I always take the risk of paying by debit card rather than letting PayPay have anything out of it. Fortunately most sellers are more honest than the eBay or PayPal thieves.
 

Offline coppercone2

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fail
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2019, 08:47:20 pm »
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2019, 08:50:41 pm »
TBH when shit has gone down between a buyer and myself they have been universally good.

Example: some muppet forgot to collect his parcel which was delivered to an Argos store here in the UK. Argos didn't return the package to me as they were supposed to. So £80 worth of stuff. Ebay refunded him and let me keep the cash, no questions asked. Both of us happy.

Got to be honest but I don't mind paying the fees. They are cheaper than auction houses, the market is much larger than anywhere else, the effort I have to expend is minimal and the resolution system is almost entirely fair from experience. I don't know what people are complaining about. More final value goes in my pocket than anywhere else. Selling stuff cash in hand is almost impossible now as well.

Incidentally a few years ago I tried to do a section 75 claim on my credit card when something didn't turn up. Took 3 fucking months to resolve with the card company who were unhelpful, slow, rude and generally incompetent.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2019, 09:21:44 pm »
As far as I am concerned Paypal are crooks.

I have never sold on eBay, only bought. I had my Paypal account linked to my bank account so I never had a Paypal balance. They just took the money from my bank account when I did any purchase.

One day I bought something like eight items on eBay, nothing important. Paypal took the money from the bank and THEN blocked my account. Getting them to unblock my account was hell. They said I needed to provide this and that and the other to prevent money laundering. Ridiculous. If they were going to block my account they could have done it before taking the money from the bank but no, they took the money and then blocked it. As far as I am concerned they only had permission to take the money for the purpose of making payments I had ordered and if they weren't going to do it they should not have taken the money. I had to waste a lot of time apologizing to the sellers because I could not pay them. I was angry with the whole thing.

When they finally returned my money two or three months later I cancelled the account. Crooks. That's what they are.
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Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2019, 08:15:21 am »
I so wish a billionaire would set up a nonprofit to handle online transactions without political bias or excess tariffs.  Obviously not "for free", but at rates that make it long-term maintainable, but without the pressure to make oodles of money to stockholders.  (You don't need to necessarily invest a lot of money in it, but you do need a billionaire or a big banker (which nowadays are the same thing) to get the necessary banking contacts to make it work.)

I'm using a Let's Encrypt certificate on my website, provided by the non-profit Internet Security Research Group (ISRG), except that my hosting provider handled all the details for me.  My own computers run Linux, funded by both non-profits and companies alike (especially by employing long-term developers).  This model is very far from perfect, but it works better than the gigacompany model Apple, Microsoft, eBay, Amazon, PayPal, etc. are implementing.

I don't necessarily want someone do provide the same services for a lesser cut, but I want my payment processor to keep the heck away from any politics, and just do their job, without constantly worrying what their current value-extraction approach is.  PayPal is already using their position to enforce their political stance, which to me is like Microsoft Word refusing to print a document because Microsoft thinks it contains right-wing hate-speech.  Plus, their currency conversion rates are rather extreme.

Seems to me a very limited charter nonprofit (that pays its employees well, but otherwise is not pressured to extract more and more value from their customers), would fit the position of a payment processor best.  It is, after all, just a middleman between customers and commercial banks in different countries.

Come to think about it, that could also solve the interbank transaction issues (IBAN etc.) countries worldwide are dealing with right now, what with the attemps to introduce politically-based policy in the mix.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2019, 08:46:47 am »
BACS / FP here do that. No fees. Bank to bank. Instant.

User interface sucks. That’s the only problem.
 
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Online magic

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2019, 03:33:34 pm »
When they finally returned my money two or three months later I cancelled the account.
Similar story here, but I never bothered to unlock the account because they were obliged to return my funds within 6 months by law. It still even exists, I can't close it without unlocking even though there is no money on it. All mail about new rules goes straight to spam ;)

nonprofit
without political bias
Even allowing anyone to use the service for any purpose would be considered "political bias" these days because it reinforces existing power structures over the march of progress :blah:
The West is literally becoming "you are against the Nazis or you are with them". And perhaps for a reason too - ideas which ten years ago were confined to irrelevant blogs and obscure Internet forums are making it into comment sections of major websites and campaign speeches of (certain ;)) presidents.

My own computers run Linux, funded by both non-profits and companies alike (especially by employing long-term developers).  This model is very far from perfect, but it works better than the gigacompany model Apple, Microsoft, eBay, Amazon, PayPal, etc. are implementing.
Hard to argue against your comparison with Microsoft these days ;)
As for Linux, the corporate involvement sorta works because many of these companies are actually Linux users too or Linux system vendors so they care about keeping it usable. But there are others, like vendors contributing to Linux in order to sell their product, who churn out minimum effort crap, solutions too focused on their narrow area of interest, binary drivers, or somewhat user-hostile solutions which happen to be convenient for hardware vendors.

So, fundamentally, I'm afraid there is no escape from the old rule: do it yourself or pay somebody to do it like you want it done.
If you are lucky, you may find others with similar needs (like in open source software) or vote with your wallet.

Which brings us to an online payment solution which I actually like and vote for myself, and that's bank transfers.

It may sound unimaginable to some folks, but in most of Europe you cannot simply withdraw money from somebody else's account knowing only the account number. Yes, this implies that checks are virtually nonexistent here and so is check fraud. Oh horror ;)

So plain old wire transfers to a publicly known account number were the preferred method of payments like 10 years ago and still are used widely. Nowadays, banks also introduced "instant transfers" to business accounts within the same bank with the extra convenience that the business can submit payment details to the bank's system behind the scenes and the buyer only logs in to online banking and confirms. Furthermore, a number of payment processors appeared who offload dealing with all the different consumer banks from the merchant. There is no buyer protection or refunds, but these can be provided by auction sites.

So that's how it works on our local eBay clone and on AliExpress. It's fast, takes little clicking on the buyer's side and is inherently safe because at no point is any external party able to drain my account. If eBay manages to integrate it into their system, I may start using them. But with PP and CC, no way.
 

Online NorthGuy

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2019, 04:13:15 pm »
Which brings us to an online payment solution which I actually like and vote for myself, and that's bank transfers.

Here people get cashback and points from their credit card purchases. Even though bank transfers are better, people won't give up credit cards easily.
 

Online NorthGuy

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Re: Paypal policy update
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2019, 04:17:08 pm »
I so wish a billionaire would set up a nonprofit to handle online transactions without political bias or excess tariffs.

What a non-sense. There are lots of independent payment processors already. They're all different and they all compete with each other keeping the fees low. Just select the one you like.
 


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