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Paypal policy update
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soldar:

--- Quote from: NorthGuy on April 06, 2019, 04:17:08 pm --- There are lots of independent payment processors already. They're all different and they all compete with each other keeping the fees low. Just select the one you like.
--- End quote ---

My impression, maybe somewhat misinformed, is that in North America and in China there are a few (non-credit card) payment processors and it works well because they are few and most people and establishments use them so they are all compatible. I know in China almost everybody has and takes Wechat and Aliexpress and many upscale places take Applepay. They are extremely easy to set up and use. Your mobile phone is your wallet where you can keep money and make payments. If I want to pay you 5 yuan I just scan your phone with mine, put in the amount and click send.

But my impression of Europe is that the market is very fragmented by countries, by banks, etc. so it is not really so useful. In Spain there are several outfits but none is really universal and forget it if you want to send money to another country.

IMHO Europe is way behind America and China in two things which are very important for trade and development: payments and shipping. In America and in China you can buy online and pay easily with little cost and ship things easily and with little cost. Europe is way behind the ball here. It is easier and cheaper for me to buy stuff in China than to buy it from the EU and that makes no sense.

I also often buy things from America and while paying is easy the shipping to Spain is too expensive so I have purchases shipped to my agent in the USA and she brings them to Spain when she comes.  China have set up that shipping system where they can ship to America and Europe very cheaply.

The EU really need to get payments and shipping made cheap and easy among different countries.

And all this "prevention of money laundering" BS has gotten out of hand. If I go into a bank to deposit 5 EUR to a bank account I need to show ID and they will make a photocopy and keep it in their files. The stupidity of the bureaucrats needs a log scale to be measured.
Ice-Tea:

--- Quote from: bd139 on April 05, 2019, 02:29:49 pm ---I haven't had a single return or refund for over 15 years. I've sold around 2000 items £5 to £10k in value each.

This 100% depends how you run your selling outfit.

--- End quote ---

Eh, no? Nobody (or, well, very few people) will bother to lodge a complaint for a low value item. In addition, I assume the risk of your stuff getting damaged during transport is close to non-existing. If you sell stuff like scopes, rf gens and whatnot like I do, the occasional refunds or partial refunds *do* happen.

And yes, this policy change pisses me of. It's not like they're not making any money of me already...
NorthGuy:

--- Quote from: soldar on April 06, 2019, 04:34:59 pm ---The EU really need to get payments and shipping made cheap and easy among different countries.

--- End quote ---

Don't you have free SEPA bank transfers across EU? Where you can just scan QR code with your phone, press a button and money got sent instantly? Pretty much the same as AliPay?

Here, in Canada, there's a system of money transfers through e-mail, which works instantly and costs only $1 to send (free to receive).

With credit cards too. In the 90-s you had to pay $400 to set up a merchant account plus $400 for software, also $35 monthly fees. Now you can start accepting credit cards without any setup fees.

So, things are moving, perhaps not as fast as we would want to.
soldar:

--- Quote from: bd139 on April 05, 2019, 02:29:49 pm --- I haven't had a single return or refund for over 15 years. I've sold around 2000 items £5 to £10k in value each.

This 100% depends how you run your selling outfit.
--- End quote ---

Count yourself lucky because no matter how well you do things there are many idiots in the world who feel entitled to very unreasonable things. There are many entitled idiots in the world and they are everywhere. They are in the streets driving, they are passengers in airlines, they are everywhere. And some of them are buyers or sellers online.

I have never sold on eBay precisely because I do not want to run the risk of running into such people. My purchases on eBay in general have been good experiences. A couple of times I did not receive the thing and I got a prompt refund. When I have had a question or complaint I have always contacted the seller nicely explaining the situation and proposing what I would consider an acceptable resolution. All Chinese sellers have been very nice and I have never had a problem.  Some months ago I bought a bicycle foot pump and when it arrived the pump worked but the pressure gauge did not. I messaged the seller proposing several solutions and he chose to refund me half the price I had paid.

I only recall one time, long time ago, I had a problem with some American woman who turned out to be rude and crazy. I forget the details but it was like it was a birthday present for somebody (time sensitive) and she shipped the wrong item and then the right item arrived way past due date.  She would send me messages like:
--- Code: --- So I did not ship for over a week!

Hello?

I already told you my mother is in the hospital. What do you want me to do? Leave her so you can have your item?

Hello?
--- End code ---
soldar:

--- Quote from: NorthGuy on April 06, 2019, 05:06:29 pm --- Don't you have free SEPA bank transfers across EU? Where you can just scan QR code with your phone, press a button and money got sent instantly? Pretty much the same as AliPay?
--- End quote ---


Not that I am aware of. SEPA transfers are neither free nor simple. Maybe others can chime in on this.

In China I use WechatPay. Wechat is the equivalent of Whatsapp and is what I use for chatting, sending photos, etc. and also for paying in China. Everybody has it. And I mean *everybody*.

Let me describe how it is in China.  After lunch my wife decides we should go to a department store and get me a coat. We go out and rent two bikes by scanning the QR code on them. The (tiny) payment is automatically processed by Wechat without any cost to us or further need to do anything. At the department store/mall we release (lock) the bikes and go inside. Once we decide the purchase we go to the register where there are visible logos of payment forms they accept and we are asked how we would like to pay. We say Wechat and the register prints out a ticket with a QR code which I scan and pay. The register instantly receives confirmation of the payment. No cost or commission for the payment. I suppose the merchants pay it.

We cross the street to a big park where a food vendor with a cart has a QR code visible. We ask for some cold soy beverage, we scan the QR code, input the (small) amount manually and click "send". The vendor could, of course, check her own account to confirm but  just looks at our phone to confirm and is satisfied.

A barber is working on the sidewalk and I decide to get a haircut. For some reason he thinks I am Russian. I guess in years past pretty much all foreigners there were Russians. Same thing: scan QR code, input amount, hit send and show the barber.

Uh, oh, we are having dinner with the wife's family at a restaurant and time is short. We call a DD car (like Uber) and also pay using Wechat. 

At the (more upscale) restaurant we get a printed bill which we scan and pay, like at the department store. In lower-end places you just scan their Wechat ID and input the amount manually.

My wife's family insist on sharing the bill and transfer (something) to her Wechat account which they don't need to scan because they already have it.

So the system is extremely simple and convenient, costs nothing and is good for all payments, big or small.

Nothing in Spain comes even close to this. Bank transfers are a pain and cost money. Credit cards are a pain in several ways. And there is no convenient way to just pay small amounts to a friend or a small vendor.

I guess a regular credit card offers things that Paypal or Wechat don't like credit, security of transactions (you cannot charge back on Wechat that I know of) but the convenience is unequalled.

This is just one aspect where IMHO China is way ahead of us. I think many people never got used to banking. They went directly from using only cash to using smartphones. I would think most people in China have never used a check in their lives.


--- Quote --- https://transferwise.com/help/article/1663579/euro-transfers/what-are-sepa-transfers

 Per EU regulations, transfers between bank accounts in two different SEPA countries shouldn’t cost any more than a regular, local transfer. Some banks, mostly Italian or Spanish, will still find ways to charge you extra.
--- End quote ---

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