General > General Technical Chat
Paypal policy update
vtwin@cox.net:
Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree, because my experience says just the opposite.
I will admit I do not sell items listed as “not working” or “for repair/parts” etc so eBay may have a different viewpoint on those items, but every item I list on eBay I do so with “returns not accepted” and I have still been forced to accept a return (and pay for the return shipping) — case in point, this recent incident with the item I sold which was new but not in a retail box (and stated such in the description) which eBay forced me to accept a return on.
Perhaps they have a different attitude if you are a power seller and are paying thousands in fees each month.
I imagine it may also have something to do with the category you are selling in as well, as some items may not be inherently returnable (such as, say, a piece of software which includes a license code).
bitseeker:
There is often confusion between a return for not being as described and one for some other reason.
eBay Buyer Protection enables the buyer to return an item if it isn't as described, regardless what the seller's return policy is. The seller then has to refund the total cost to the buyer when they return the item, including shipping, and the seller has to pay for the return shipping cost, too.
What happens with other return reasons depends on the seller's return policy. If they say no returns, then the buyer has to keep it.
For example, I sold a hard drive that worked just fine and was listed as used with "seller does not accept returns", but the buyer changed their mind and opened a return request saying that their kid had bought the drive and they wanted to return it. I immediately phoned eBay to shut down that nonsense and the agent closed the case on the spot.
Be very careful with setting condition as "New." Lacking the retail box doesn't qualify as new. "New (other)" may work, but may still be risky.
--- Quote from: eBay ---New
A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable). Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item is handmade or was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details.
--- End quote ---
soldar:
--- Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on August 10, 2019, 06:42:56 pm ---Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree, because my experience says just the opposite.
--- End quote ---
I am the first to say eBay/Paypal can be unfair and difficult to deal with but from what you describe it sounds to me like it was your mistake and you did not bother to learn from it. Did you bother to ask exactly why you were forced to take it back? Other people seem to navigate selling on eBay without accepting returns.
You have to be thorough and meticulous. You can't just do a shoddy listing and then complain about it not working out like you wanted.
vtwin@cox.net:
--- Quote from: soldar on August 11, 2019, 10:36:52 am ---
--- Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on August 10, 2019, 06:42:56 pm ---Sorry, we will have to agree to disagree, because my experience says just the opposite.
--- End quote ---
I am the first to say eBay/Paypal can be unfair and difficult to deal with but from what you describe it sounds to me like it was your mistake and you did not bother to learn from it. Did you bother to ask exactly why you were forced to take it back? Other people seem to navigate selling on eBay without accepting returns.
You have to be thorough and meticulous. You can't just do a shoddy listing and then complain about it not working out like you wanted.
--- End quote ---
I am quite meticulous in my listings, not only in my item description where I disclose every imperfection but I take numerous photos of the items I sell, and fully document an item's condition. I've been selling on eBay since the late 90's (I've been selling since the days you could leave feedback for another eBayer without actually having a transaction with them.) I am a casual seller, I do not sell to make a living and it isn't a business for me. In the 20+ years I've been on eBay my feedback rating is still in 3 digits.
I specifically stated in my listing the item was new, had been removed from its box and the box and accompanying material thrown away, but then had never been installed. So it was "new, without box", which would be akin to "new without tags" in the clothing area.
The reason for the return was it did not include the retail box. I refused the return, and eBay sided with the buyer.
Fortunately in this case, it was a small item and the shipping charges were negligible, but on a $25 item where I had to pay $7 r/t shipping, I "lost" over 25% of the item's value just in the shipping charges alone, and now tack on the paypal fees I do not get reimbursed. I immediately re-listed the item and it re-sold within a few days to someone who actually read the item description and has since left positive feedback he's happy with the item. It is pretty clear, IMO, either 1) the buyer simply changed his mind, or 2) he didn't read the item description itself, but relied on the pre-filled in data eBay shows when you look for an item specifically by vendor name and product code.
About a year ago I sold a used laptop for $150 which a buyer had for two months, after which they opened a claim the item was "not as described" and likewise eBay forced the return. In that case I was out over $30 in shipping (bi-directional) and when I received the returned item it was functioning 100%, so it was apparent either the buyer changed his mind or found a "better deal" somewhere else.
It's pretty common knowledge these days if you want to return an item, for whatever reason, you simply file an 'item not as described' complaint and claim the item doesn't work, and the return will be granted.
soldar:
--- Quote from: vtwin@cox.net on August 11, 2019, 11:41:27 am ---I specifically stated in my listing the item was new, had been removed from its box and the box and accompanying material thrown away, but then had never been installed. So it was "new, without box", which would be akin to "new without tags" in the clothing area.
The reason for the return was it did not include the retail box. I refused the return, and eBay sided with the buyer.
--- End quote ---
While I can understand your frustration it seems you put it in the wrong category if "new" has to include the box. You cannot put an item in a category which requires X and then disclaim X in the description. Now you know for next time.
I have seen items offered which disclaimed in the text things claimed in the title. I do not even attribute it to bad faith but you just can't do that. Would you be happy if you bought a car only to find out later the small print says tires, steering wheel and doors are extra?
If eBay says "New" means it includes the box then a buyer is not obligated to find you disclaim that somewhere in the description. You should have listed it as used or whatever fits best. You gave the buyer the loophole.
Again, I can understand your frustration and I sympathize but if you learn from this you will not have the same problem again. If you had listed it correctly you would not have been obligated to take it back.
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