EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Free_WiFi on May 18, 2019, 09:57:46 pm
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Today(5/18/2019),11:56 Pm.
I'm here regarding to my previous post : https://tinyurl.com/y5bn8ul7
My 2nd backup SWISS screwdriver will be washed by an ordinary soap like Svelto,because i really wish to discover the reason of it failure.
If after this "EXPERIMENT" the result will be the same,then i will never buy again from this brand (PB SWISS TOOLS).
The reason is very simple,i just don't understand why these screwdrivers are not allowed to be cleaned in the moment of need.
So for this reason,if i will discorver that "PB SWISS Screwdrivers/with resin coating" can't be washed,i will never buy them again.
End of story.
P.S I will update this topic if something on my handle will change.
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1. There’s absolutely no need for this thread. It adds nothing over the old one.
2. Why are you whining here instead of contacting PB Swiss to see what they say??
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Good morning to everybody.
So today i'm finally here to make the final conclusions about the "self decomposing" Santoprene® handle of PB SWISS SCREWDRIVERS.
However i need to say the following things before to start this discussion.
PB SWISS screwdrivers are not really defective and the self decomposing process is not caused by the simple agining/passing of the time.
So from this point of view you can be calm,because without the specific condition the self decomposing process couldn't be started.
Arrived at this point,without too much words etc .....
i can confirm at 100% that this problem is caused by the ordinary laundry detergent for clothes like :
Dixan,Dexal,Sole etc .....
I'm total 0 in chemistry,so i'm not able to explain you which kind of chemical prosess is happening behind,but as i've observed by my self,if your handle (wet by your own sweat or water) will touch the laundry powder,then you can already say good bye my dear swiss friend.
If you are asking how did i made this discover,then the answer is very simple:
I'm repairing a lot of laundry machines :clap: and yes !
my PB SWISS Screwdriver was in touch with these powder-detergents.
If you won't believe me,then pick up your own PB SWISS Screwdriver and leave it on the top of the laundry powder for 10/15 minutes.
After some days or a month,your soft coating will begin to feels sticky,etc...
THE END.
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I dunno, man... given that Santoprene is marketed for use in washing machine and dishwasher parts (with explicit detergent resistance standards), it doesn’t seem likely to me that they’d be sensitive to detergents.
One would have to do a controlled experiment, I think.
Did you ever contact PB Swiss and ask what they had to say about your handle failures??
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I dunno, man... given that Santoprene is marketed for use in washing machine and dishwasher parts (with explicit detergent resistance standards), it doesn’t seem likely to me that they’d be sensitive to detergents.
One would have to do a controlled experiment, I think.
Did you ever contact PB Swiss and ask what they had to say about your handle failures??
I haven't enought time to explain every detail to them.
However,my screwdriver handle was in touch only with powder-detergents and liquid soaps like svelto or dexel.
So for this reason i'm pretty sure that in my case the cause is only there .... (Yes! i'm talking only for my self)
Actually it would be very nice if PB SWISS could release the CAB version of their "electronic precision screwdrivers",because i lost my faith in these soft coating & stuff like that ... :horse:
After my previous experience with the self melting handle of ifixit(Made in Taiwan) and the pb swiss screwdriver is enought for me !
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You have time to write long-winded rants online, but not to give them a call or write them an email? Come on...
Why even bother buying this quality of tool if you’re not going to use the lifetime warranty they give?
Meanwhile, why don’t you look at the PB Swiss website (or request the print catalog), they still have lots of stuff in CAB.
Don’t count on them releasing CAB precision screwdrivers — they only just stopped making those. The current style was only released in 2017.
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Why even bother buying this quality of tool if you’re not going to use the lifetime warranty they give?
Don’t count on them releasing CAB precision screwdrivers — they only just stopped making those. The current style was only released last year.
Did you understand the main nut of this problem or not?
The main issue about this problem is not the lifetime warranty (my dear egoist) !
The main and the only one problem here is that their soft coating on the handle is vulnerable to some kind of laundry powder and other detergents like these.
So basically this problem is just an infinite loop around the same circle !!!!
I'm working a lot with laundry machines and got contact with laundry powder,so this means my dear genius that :
I can't use anymore their screwdrivers with this kind of soft coating on their handle.
PS : I will never again reply to you,it's a no sense,it's a waste of time to talk with peoples like you.
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Yeah, it does suck to be called out on your bullshit, but I’m gonna do it anyway. Learn some fucking common sense, and forum etiquette.
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Hi
I have done some testing and research as well regarding your issue with Santoprene handles and Svelto soap.
The Svelto cleaner is definitely not suitable to clean Santoprene handles in general, as it is already slightly acidic.
Santoprene tolerates only basic cleaners such as Kunststoffteufel (plastic evil) see attached picture.
Therefore use alkaline (basic) cleaner for Santoprene handles.
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The acid/base theory is extremely unlikely to be correct. If you look at elastomer chemical compatibility documents, like this one (http://ingersollrand.jp/pdf/fluid/fluid_catalog_15.pdf), you’ll see that Santoprene is highly resistant to most acids, even at fairly high concentrations. The slight acidity of the dish liquid simply isn’t going to be an issue. If the dish liquid caused damage, it wasn’t because of its acidity, but because of incompatibility with some other ingredient in it.
Secondly, it’s my understanding that laundry detergents are alkaline, since this helps to dissolve fats and proteins.
As a reminder, in another supplier data sheet for Santoprene, they expressly list washing machine seals as an application. As such, it MUST be compatible with laundry detergent, both diluted and concentrated (so that spilled detergent powder doesn’t melt holes in the seals).
Of course I’d love to know what PB Swiss has to say, but the OP is too bull headed to contact them...
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Hi
I have done some testing and research as well regarding your issue with Santoprene handles and Svelto soap.
The Svelto cleaner is definitely not suitable to clean Santoprene handles in general, as it is already slightly acidic.
Santoprene tolerates only basic cleaners such as Kunststoffteufel (plastic evil) see attached picture.
Therefore use alkaline (basic) cleaner for Santoprene handles.
Hello Mr.Chris
Sorry for my very long delay regarding my reply to you,but actually i was really distracted by my daily problems etc .... :-//
So ?
Today is 2019/09/03 and my second screwdriver has become sticky,clammy & it's very - very unpleasant to touch.
The point about the second screwdriver is basically the same as for the 1St. one,both of them for some strange and unknown reason have started to degrade in the zone of the santoprene handle :-+ :-+ :-+
I don't care about "Human Beings" which will come here to blame me & :blah: :blah: :blah:
because they just don't care since this is not their own problem + they are not at my place & situation. :popcorn:
So,what i can tell you about my exp. with your brand Mr.Chris?
Basically without too much words... i totally hate the problem regarding the santoprene handle & actually this hurts me pretty,because i was in love with your Switzerland precision screwdrivers.
If you or your company don't believe that i'm here to expose the real problem,then let me send my 2nd screwdriver to you,so you or your company can make an chemical analysis on it........
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Holy crap, it is looking really bad :o
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Holy crap, it is looking really bad :o
As you can see from the picture,i peeled off the santoprene from my 1st screwdriver like it was an potato,because at some point of the time,in my specific case the santoprene had become smelly and very disgusting at touch.
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Again, why are you not contacting PB Swiss about this??
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Again, why are you not contacting PB Swiss about this??
Looool :-DD
twist plot !
chris_the_one is already from PB Swiss Tools ;)
They are here and via chris_the_one they're watching us.
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That's not a plot twist as much as it is missing information... Since we (other members) are merely humans, and thus not telepathic, we have no way of knowing things you do not write!
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That's not a plot twist as much as it is missing information... Since we (other members) are merely humans, and thus not telepathic, we have no way of knowing things you do not write!
Hello tooki.
I'm writing you this tiny msg*,because i wish to explain you something....
To be honest i've contacted PB SWISS a long time ago,but i didn't say it on the forum,because this was an planned-clever move to check if PB SWISS would come here to make an official answear to the entire comunity.
As you can see by your self,chris_the_one (the official guy from PB SWISS) was come here,but he didn't claim he's officiality from PB SWISS.
Arrived at this point Mr.tooki,i really hope that now you can understand me for what i'm and not for that you was thinking about me in the past.
Thanks.
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Hey!
I wish you'd just messaged me or something; the way you responded made it seem like you were being obstinate.
So anyway, I had a thought: it hasn't been that long since PB Swiss discontinued the CAB-handled precision screwdrivers; I only got mine a few years ago. Surely there must be vendors who still have old stock of them. So I found a PDF of an older catalog edition (2016 edition (EN/IT) (https://www.werkzeuge-tools.ch/media/products/0770842001472555741.pdf), see p.139ff) to find the part numbers, and indeed, a google search for "site:.it pb swiss [part number]" does indeed bring up a few vendors with stock, including various ones on Amazon.it. For example, this is the set I own: https://www.amazon.it/PB-Swiss-Tools-Cacciavite-unidirezionale/dp/B002NEDRLK (https://www.amazon.it/PB-Swiss-Tools-Cacciavite-unidirezionale/dp/B002NEDRLK)
Another thought I had is that though PB Swiss discontinued the individual precision screwdrivers with CAB handles, they do still have the interchangeable-bit precision driver, the PB 53 series (aka PB 1100 for the ESD version). A bunch of those with the desired bits would definitely be an option. (I call them bits, but they're full-length shafts that go into a proper clamp, I think, so not the wobbly nonsense of normal hex bits.) They're on pp.196-197 of the current catalog (EN/IT) (https://static.pbswisstools.com/fileadmin/images/Support/Service/Downloads/Kataloge/PBST_Katalog_2018_EAN_EN-IT.pdf).
Hope this helps!
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Seventeen replies and hundreds of views about the handle on a screwdriver. Not the most exciting thread on the EEVBlog board.
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I do not see anything wrong with it since it is talking about a problem with the very often used tool. Overall, i think it is ridiculous for a mechanical tool to be vulnerable to vanila cleaning product. I want my tools to be clean so i regularly wash them with different cleaners. Now i know what brand to avoid.
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If outer plastic layer is damaged then maybe stick that screwdriver in a lathe and just remove this thin layer that has gone bad?
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I forget about the rust on the top of the tip ...
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Well, they’re not stainless steel. Rust is ultimately up to care, of keeping it clean and dry, possibly applying oil to protect.
PB Swiss actually sold titanium screwdrivers for a few years, but I guess they didn’t sell well, since they discontinued them rather quickly*. But there are vendors who sell stainless steel drivers.
*PB Swiss actually does still make a bunch of titanium tools, but only in their line of medical tools, which aren’t available to consumers. Though I assume we couldn’t afford them anyway!
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I was curious about this issue, so I did a search on the Santoprene material. I'm not a chemist but I had to look at the chemical compatibility of Santoprene and soap.
Most of the ingredients in soap will not harm Santoprene, but if the soap contains glycerine then it's bad. From the chemical compatibility charts, the chemicals that can damage Santoprene are mostly solvents, oils, and strong acids. So no petrol (gasoline), benzene, turpentine, thinner, acetone, and other corrosive chemicals. For chemicals that we encounter in electronics work, such as isopropyl alcohol, rosin-based flux containing ammonium chloride, hydrochloric acid (<20%) and zinc chloride, the effect is minimal.
Links:
https://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/literature/misc/chemical-compatibility-guide/Graco_ChemCompGuideEN-B.pdf (https://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ipd/literature/misc/chemical-compatibility-guide/Graco_ChemCompGuideEN-B.pdf)
http://mossrubber.com/pdfs/Chem_Res.pdf (http://mossrubber.com/pdfs/Chem_Res.pdf)
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https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a8/06/33/a806335d09c0b2aa4f3ef91b5994dc8f.jpg
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This just reaffirms my opinion about any of those 'soft grip' tools - I do avoid them when I can.
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This just reaffirms my opinion about any of those 'soft grip' tools - I do avoid them when I can.
They really sound like an excellent tool to separate suckers from their money!
They are a bloody screwdriver, for Pete's sake! :palm:
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This just reaffirms my opinion about any of those 'soft grip' tools - I do avoid them when I can.
They really sound like an excellent tool to separate suckers from their money!
They are a bloody screwdriver, for Pete's sake! :palm:
This is not directed against PB generally nor is it based on the price level. I totally disliked it when they along with many others started to change a lot of tools from smooth and clear (or opaque) to those amorphous gripping surfaces. I don't like the feel and I don't like the look.
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This just reaffirms my opinion about any of those 'soft grip' tools - I do avoid them when I can.
They really sound like an excellent tool to separate suckers from their money!
They are a bloody screwdriver, for Pete's sake! :palm:
A screwdriver is precisely the kind of tool where a grippy surface like this makes sense. It reduces the amount of force you have to apply to pure squeezing. For stubborn screws it makes a difference.
And Santoprene isn’t the same thing as the cheap rubberized crap that fails after a few years. It’s the stuff used for seals in car door seals and washing machine door gaskets, which last for decades without failing.
And let’s not forget that, to the best of my knowledge, this is the only time I’ve ever heard of issues with the PB Swiss rubberized tools, and I live in the country that doubtless has the highest market penetration of anywhere for that brand. (PB Swiss is what you find in most households and businesses here, it seems to me.)
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This just reaffirms my opinion about any of those 'soft grip' tools - I do avoid them when I can.
They really sound like an excellent tool to separate suckers from their money!
They are a bloody screwdriver, for Pete's sake! :palm:
This is not directed against PB generally nor is it based on the price level. I totally disliked it when they along with many others started to change a lot of tools from smooth and clear (or opaque) to those amorphous gripping surfaces. I don't like the feel and I don't like the look.
Which is why they sell various types, with and without rubber grips, in various grip shapes. I like the rubber, you don’t, and yet we can still both be happy.