Author Topic: Perpetual Motion  (Read 19401 times)

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Offline IanB

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2012, 01:21:25 am »
am i wrong?

Yes.

Quote
anyway i never saw the proof of those Maxwell, Lorentz, Einstein in hard paper, so i musnt have faith in them :P jk.

Electricity and electromagnetism are understood completely, with a capital "C". There is nothing left that is mysterious about it. That is how engineers can design electric generators and hard disk drives and microchips and TV transmitters and radars and microwave ovens and cell phones with fractal antennas and who knows what else, and why all that stuff works. It's a done deal. A solved problem. All wrapped up and tied up neatly with a bow on top.

If anyone makes a YouTube video claiming to have some clever discovery with motors and generators and magnets and wires, it only proves that (a) they have not studied physics at university level, and (b) they don't have the mental capacity to study physics at university level.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline HardBoot

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2012, 01:57:54 am »
I made a perpetual motion machine once.

Two mirrors facing each other.

It'd work perfectly if the pesky light didn't escape or get absorbed.
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2012, 03:23:06 am »
The power companies that generate electricity have to pay money for the fuel (gas or coal) to generate that electricity. The cost of the fuel is huge and limits how much profit they can make. If the power companies could find a way to generate electricity without having to buy fuel to feed the generators their profits would become astronomical and they would all be doing it. Since they are not doing it, there is clearly a bit of a snag in the "free electricity" theory.
But you don't get it. If we didn't have to work, then our reptilian alien overlords wouldn't have any way to keep us enslaved!

Yes, sarcasm. Phew!
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Offline Obi_Kwiet

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2012, 03:28:35 am »
Let's first separate perpetual motion from free energy. (Nearly) Perpetual motion is indeed possible - the Earth has been orbiting the Sun for over 4.5 billion years - but you can't extract energy from it and still have perpetual motion.

That's not perpetual motion, it's just motion that lasts for a long time compared to us. However, the universe will still be very young compared to it's total lifetime when the earth stops spinning the sun. The sun earth system has a lot of energy and is very efficient, but it can't last forever by a long shot. It is slowing down as we speak.
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2012, 03:38:43 am »
I think NiHaoMike was pointing out the principal difference between the terms. Something arbitrarily close to perpetual motion could exist, given an arbitrarily good vacuum with of an arbitrarily big size, with a spinning object in the middle. That's an energy preservation ratio or conversion ratio approaching (but in every practical scenario never reaching) 1. That's theoretically possible.
Free energy on the other hand means a conversion ratio >1 which is definitely not possible.
Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline niky518

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2012, 02:49:47 pm »
Did someone try this?

 

Offline IanB

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2012, 03:01:51 pm »
Did someone try this?

It's a motor. Anyone can make a motor with coils and magnets. If you are wondering where the battery is, it is hidden.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2012, 03:03:33 pm »
'hidden' at the end of the wire which is badly blurred out.
 

Offline KTP

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2012, 03:05:37 pm »
Did someone try this?


Nope..was too busy doing this:

 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2012, 03:10:31 pm »
niky518, read a good physics book. All your answers are in there.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2012, 03:26:51 pm »
i lost my pack of neomedium magnets earlier now i got another pack off ebay. faith i think :P i will figure that out when i dealt with reality.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Ferroto

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2012, 03:38:32 pm »
Let's first separate perpetual motion from free energy. (Nearly) Perpetual motion is indeed possible - the Earth has been orbiting the Sun for over 4.5 billion years - but you can't extract energy from it and still have perpetual motion.

Free energy is possible as well, although the devices to extract such energy are not free and there are limitations. Solar energy is already practical in some areas, but not in others. Same with wind energy.

False stars eventually exhaust their energy and energy lost in the form of light will eventually leave the universe never to be used again. Stars will also loose mass as they age which will cause earth to break away from orbit around our sun assuming we haven't turned into a red giant by then which would cause earth to be swallowed up by the sun.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2012, 04:09:02 pm by Ferroto »
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2012, 05:18:24 pm »
False stars eventually exhaust their energy and energy lost in the form of light will eventually leave the universe never to be used again.
you are contradicting with "conservation of energy" law.

Stars will also loose mass as they age which will cause earth to break away from orbit around our sun assuming we haven't turned into a red giant by then which would cause earth to be swallowed up by the sun.
such statement dictates (as i translate it) 2 things. (1) there's no such thing as "perpetual", only either the universe or the "***". and free energy is actually... "everywhere"! (for our case is the "sun", thats the obvious one)
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2012, 05:39:47 pm »
Careful now. It's dangerous to go around imposing restrictions like that without due caution. A great many apparently magical things (though of course not all) become highly accessible once they're understood. The list of incredible-yet-true scientific principles that can be tested at home is actually enormous.

In areas that are not well understood the scope for discovery remains. But the theory of electromagnetism is understood in great detail and has comprehensive experimental verification. There simply isn't any room for someone to find an unexplained phenomenon when playing around with magnets and wires any more. There is no danger at all in saying this. The only people who think there is some "magic" left to find are the people who don't understand the physics.

It's absolutely true that you can test many incredible scientific principles at home and everybody should. Don't take other people's word for it just because you read it in a text book. But at the same time, I can predict without fear of contradiction that every home experiment properly performed will attest to the conservation of energy, and every home experiment likewise will verify the equations of Maxwell, Lorentz, Einstein and quantum electrodynamics. The mystery is gone. The way the universe works in this particular area is completely understood and there isn't the tiniest nook or cranny left for anyone to discover.

The Lorenz condition is under close scrutiny at the present due to some work at the university of Geneva, So any one who can detect the longitudinal mode and the temporal mode of photons might also find the answer to free energy. There is only one small difficulty the aerial will need to be longer than the observable universe.   
 

Offline niky518

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2012, 06:20:58 pm »
Here's another :)

watch from 2:24

 

Offline KTP

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2012, 06:46:27 pm »
This thread and others like it are proof that perpetual stupidity has advanced from hypothesis to fact.
 

Offline madworm

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2012, 07:07:58 pm »
Looks like a very complicated design.

I would at least have expected the most obvious thing to do: put it in a vacuum chamber to eliminate air friction. But maybe that was too expensive, although 10^-3 to 10^-4 mbar would have been enough to get rid of most of the drag.

The process of building these mechanisms is surely quite rewarding, the desired goal however is out of reach.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2012, 07:57:54 pm »
Here's another :)

watch from 2:24



why did you want us to skip the beginning showing he is a nutter. There is a contradiction. They say it is 80-90% efficient and then say it has to be 101% efficient to be perpetual.

Don't confuse perpetual motion with free energy. Our earth spins and goes around the sun in perpetual motion. If you can build a machine with no loss it will be perpetual, that does not mean you will get energy out of it. as soon as you try to extract energy from the system it stops being perpetual.

As far as I know there is a law that says that nothing is destroyed and nothing is created, everything is transformed (goes for matter and energy).

What about this secret pendulum in the column of the machine, where there is no room for one to swing. Oh didn't he tell you ? there is a giant spring in there that gives off jut enough energy to overcome the losses due to friction of any kind......
 

Offline KTP

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2012, 08:05:25 pm »
Did you see this one?  It looks far far easier to build and has similar "perpetual motion"

I suggest the OP go to toys r us and get some parts and solve the world's energy problems!

 

Offline Simon

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2012, 08:14:08 pm »
erm it uses power and they admit it, no dodgy claims. but I like the spare cog hanging out the back  8)
 

Offline KTP

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2012, 08:40:49 pm »
erm it uses power...

Damn it Simon, you just ruined (and debunked) every single one of these perpetual motion claims.

What a spoilsport... ;)
 

Offline niky518

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2012, 09:55:57 pm »
Here's another :)

watch from 2:24



why did you want us to skip the beginning showing he is a nutter. There is a contradiction. They say it is 80-90% efficient and then say it has to be 101% efficient to be perpetual.


So what? Still better than today's engines or generators that have 15 - 50 % efficiency
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2012, 12:16:37 am »
So what? Still better than today's engines or generators that have 15 - 50 % efficiency
Then build it and make lots of money out if it!!

Why is it that people proposing such contraptions were never successful at going to market?
 

Offline Psi

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2012, 12:51:04 am »
To be fair... a perpetual motion machine cannot exist by definition but a machine could exist which gets its energy from somewhere unknown to current science.
Such a machine would appear to be a perpetual motion machine until the source of the energy was identified.

This possibility means we shouldn't instantly assume every single claim of perpetual motion is wrong, doing so could delay a major scientific discovery.

However, it would be safe to say that the chances of finding a legit machine are less than winning the lottery.
And the cost of actually investigating every claim would be stupidly expensive.

I guess i'm just saying, keep an open mind.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2012, 01:00:12 am by Psi »
Greek letter 'Psi' (not Pounds per Square Inch)
 

Offline HardBoot

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Re: Perpetual Motion
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2012, 01:03:28 am »
So what? Still better than today's engines or generators that have 15 - 50 % efficiency
Then build it and make lots of money out if it!!
Why is it that people proposing such contraptions were never successful at going to market?
[/quote]I could make a cheap and unlimited source of energy however the government would go after me because it uses fission instead of fusion.
Pesky anti-nuclear peasants and big industry.
 


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