Author Topic: Pi "foundation" gets fatter  (Read 10208 times)

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Online langwadt

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2021, 09:33:02 am »
See RPi2 in the message. This was an issue I raised on the forum, which was of course deleted like my other post...

You can't evaluate the new ones as the public schematics are incomplete.

https://github.com/raspberrypi/documentation/blob/develop/documentation/asciidoc/computers/raspberry-pi/raspberry-pi-schematics.adoc

only switchers ...
 
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Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #76 on: September 30, 2021, 02:24:50 am »
Wow. Who knew there was so much hate for the Pi.

So, what do you guys like to use in place of the Pi for what people use it for? UDOO? Pine? Beaglebone? Wandboard? (or the even more popular Banana Pi?) For me, Pi Zero is hard to beat in terms of its size.

"Hate"? 😏🤦

Merely because not every single thread response is from someone gushing and extolling the myriad, implied INFINITE "virtues" of the silly little toy board that isn't designed, marketed or supported in a professional manner?

To a fervent apologist, the antithesis of his world view is always "haters". How tedious, such a thundering bore.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #77 on: September 30, 2021, 02:30:58 am »
... NCP1117 .... same circuit AFAIK now ...

Not for many, many years, and all the relevant details are on the (heavily redacted, yes) schematic which is available.

If you're going to rant and whinge, at least be right.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #78 on: September 30, 2021, 12:23:57 pm »
Quote
To a fervent apologist, the antithesis of his world view is always "haters"

There is that. But just as not everyone concerned with climate change is a rabid eco-warrior, not everyone that isn't wound up mightily by the Pi is a 'fervent apologist'.

OTOH, I think it's pretty clear from this thread that you really and truly hate the Pi and anything connected to it. It's not enough for you to make sure you don't sully your hands, you need to stop anyone else doing so as well.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #79 on: September 30, 2021, 10:38:43 pm »
There is literally a single NCP1117 between 5V0 USB input and 3V3. If you've got your usual wall wart with added inductor then any current dips can sink that below the dropout voltage of the regulator which means your 3V3 rail bombs. I've actually seen this on a scope on an RPi2 and it's the same circuit AFAIK now. That drives all the other LDOs and the BCM core as well which all lose regulation. This causes the BCM core to BOD and reboot outside of OS control.

Only the Pi 1 used the NCP1117.
Pi 2 used an off-the-shelf ONSemi part if I recall correctly.
Pi 3 onwards have used a semi-customised Diodes Inc. part (I believe the voltages are set in the factory; the part is standard.)

Also, the BCM core on Pi 1 was powered by the 5V0 rail, not 3V3.  The BCM2835 had an onboard switchmode converter to provide the 1V0.  Remember these chips were made for low cost consumer apps, so that is a key seller.  They dropped that on Pi 2 and moved to an external buck converter but still powered from 5V0.  This converter is sensitive to xenon flashes - dig up Dave's video on this if interested - as it's just a flip-chip silicon device.
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #80 on: October 01, 2021, 03:37:43 am »

"Hate"? 😏🤦

Merely because not every single thread response is from someone gushing and extolling the myriad, implied INFINITE "virtues" of the silly little toy board that isn't designed, marketed or supported in a professional manner?

To a fervent apologist, the antithesis of his world view is always "haters". How tedious, such a thundering bore.

Dunno man, you seem to be quite emotionally invested about this whole thing. So much resentment over nothing.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #81 on: October 01, 2021, 05:48:52 pm »
If someone can find me a similarly powerful micro PC that runs a full fledged *nix OS, has a full development environment, consumes under 5W idle with a similar level of hobbyist support at a similar price point I'm all ears.
Odroid C4.  Much, much better mainline/vanilla kernel support (Quad-core Cortex-A55 with Mali G31 GPU, in an Amlogic S905X3 system-on-chip, with 4 GiB of RAM) -- basically all non-vendor-tied Linux ARM distributions will work --; at least as much computational power as RPi 4; and even lower power consumption.  The only issue is the price; currently $54 USD and up.  128 GiB eMMC module does add USD $45 to the price, too.

Most importantly, Amlogic (Meson), Samsung, and Rockchip SOCs do not have the hardware issues with silently dropped USB packets that all Raspberry Pi hardware suffers from (albeit semi-successfully worked around in their software).

While the forums aren't as active as Raspberry Pis, they're helpful, and especially do warmly welcome any open-source information (and even ask permission, then include in their guides and documentation -- have personal experience on this) if useful for other users too.

I don't own a C4 yet myself, but do have a C1+ and HC1 (NAS version of XU4), and at least had a C2 but it might have gotten lost at some point (plus half a dozen of other SBCs, like one La Frite; can't even remember all of them right now), but it is at the top of my list of desirable SBCs I'd like to buy and develop on.  Rockchip RK3328 from Olimex is near the top, too; with Sinovoip Banana Pi R64 at the top of my Linux-SBC-router list, right now.  (My current router project uses Mikrotik RBM33G using OpenWRT toolchain and kernels.)  I included this so that you can see the sector/direction of my interests, and base your estimate on how useful my opinion might be for you, based on these; others' valid opinions do vary a lot here.

Edited:  I do think the RPi foundation made a huge difference in the Linux SBC market, especially pricing-wise: they brought SBCs to hobbyist price ranges.  SBCs existed well before, especially in the automotive environment (anyone else remember when PicoPSU with its ATX power connector came to market?  To be used with micro-ATX automotive PCs?).  The camera interface was a stroke of genius on the original RPi, too; that's what got me to buy one.  I just think their community is toxic, leadership is evil (especially towards the open source projects their products rely on), and advanced users should migrate to more reliable, better supported hardware, that is not dependent on a single vendor or vendor-provided software at all.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2021, 05:56:34 pm by Nominal Animal »
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #82 on: October 01, 2021, 07:14:57 pm »
I also use Odroid U3,C1 & C2 , but have avoided the C4 because of the FAN (before the large heatsink came out).
But my goto linux SBC is the OrangePi Zero (OPIZ), that 3..4 years ago could be had for less than $10.

I have used OPIZ for mega simple stuff that an Arduino Nano could have done , but i needed Cabled ethernet.
The OPIZ was cheaper than a Nano + ether adapter , and doesn't take up much more space. OPIZ onboard WiFi is bad though.

I have one in the summerhouse that has run 24/7 x 365 x 3

My OPI's all run Armbian.

So there are others that are as good/better , but the PI created the market.

/Bingo
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 04:59:35 am by bingo600 »
 

Offline etiTopic starter

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #83 on: October 01, 2021, 07:16:25 pm »

"Hate"? 😏🤦

Merely because not every single thread response is from someone gushing and extolling the myriad, implied INFINITE "virtues" of the silly little toy board that isn't designed, marketed or supported in a professional manner?

To a fervent apologist, the antithesis of his world view is always "haters". How tedious, such a thundering bore.


Dunno man, you seem to be quite emotionally invested about this whole thing. So much resentment over nothing.

"Dunno" being the operative word - you don't know, nor could you, how I am feeling. The rationale of a complete stranger online, knowing my emotions, is a little erroneous.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #84 on: October 01, 2021, 07:49:01 pm »
But my goto linux SBC is the OrangePi Zero (OPIZ), that 3..4 years ago could be had for less than $10.
Yup, I've got one of those (with 512 MiB RAM), too. I too was disappointed by the onboard WiFi on the OPIZ, probably why I forgot to mention it...
AIUI, the Zero 2 support in vanilla kernels (especially Device Tree) is better than for the original OrangePi Zero.

So there are others that are as good/better , but the PI created the market.
I fully agree.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #85 on: October 01, 2021, 09:18:18 pm »
"Dunno" being the operative word - you don't know, nor could you, how I am feeling. The rationale of a complete stranger online, knowing my emotions, is a little erroneous.

What?

Quote
a set of reasons or a logical basis for a course of action or a particular belief.
"he explained the rationale behind the change"
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 

Offline bingo600

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #86 on: October 02, 2021, 05:01:04 am »
Just had a look at OPIZ prices at Aliexpress
 
Well the OPIZ was my goto SBC - WHAT happened with the price of that one  :palm:
The 512MB is now around $25  (H2+ ver)  :wtf:   - I' got mine for $11..12.
Is it Chipsgate / Popularity or greediness  |O

Is VAT included in the "List price" (would explain 25% of the rise) or is that added on cleckout ?

At that price i would look around for a new "favorite" (must have Cabled Ethernet)

Well i still have ~20 Raspi3's in the drawer

/Bingo
« Last Edit: October 02, 2021, 05:08:38 am by bingo600 »
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #87 on: October 02, 2021, 08:16:08 am »
Quote
Is VAT included in the "List price" (would explain 25% of the rise) or is that added on cleckout ?

It's now added on checkout, AIUI. Certainly is for the UK, and I think the VAT situation changed similarly for the EU.
 

Online magic

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Re: Pi "foundation" gets fatter
« Reply #88 on: October 02, 2021, 01:55:51 pm »
Most of the time they show prices including VAT to me, both in search results and individual item pages. Search results sometimes also show prices including shipping, but not always.
Like everything on AliE, it's quite random and changes every other day for no apparent reason.
When the price includes tax or shipping, there is normally a small note underneath informing about it.
 


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