General > General Technical Chat
Piles of Tesla owners stranded at charge stations abandons their EV's.
Siwastaja:
Some observations from Nissan Leaf 60kWh:
* At -5degC heat pump power draw is approx. 1kW to maintain +16 cabin. I don't usually see any reason to use higher cabin setting. We use winter clothes in winter and it's inconvenient to overheat vehicles, shopping malls etc. Home is different, there you are spending more time and getting undressed.
* At -25degC this rises to 3kW all the time (resistive heating is probably used additionally)
* The phone app is buggy and crappy, and you can't choose what is on for preheating (e.g., seat heaters are on if you happened to leave the physical switches that way), but much better than nothing, it works and does the job.
* With fully charged battery, despite what marketing and manuals say, preheating always starts with battery power, which is unsurprising because of power path design (the compressor/PTC elements have to be connected to the battery, and having changeover contactors for mains-only would cost more, and battery charger has some hysteresis before it can start supplying power to the pack.)
* After battery charge has dropped to 98%, "charging" can commence simultaneously with preheating and it seems that battery net current is very close to zero, i.e., charger supplies DC power to the climate control circuits and battery is just paralleled in the circuit. This means with preheating you are always "losing" a few km of range because you can't get back to 100%. But of course the savings from preheating are bigger than this loss.
* At -25degC, battery efficiency loss in normal driving is probably more than I have assumed, something in range of 20%, because there seems to be unexplained loss component not shown by the drive computer (which obviously counts Wh coming out of battery, so battery ESR isn't part of measurement). This seems to be more significant range loss component than I have assumed previously, on par with the cabin heating loss. Since battery loss is directly proportional to current draw, this would mean unaggressive driving patterns, going smoothly instead of quick accelerations, are hugely important in winter.
* Still at -15degC or so, it seems driving power is not yet reduced,
* At -29degC, driving power was limited from the usual 160kW down to 90kW which is very noticeable in full acceleration, but quite frankly, EVs accelerate quickly so I could probably accept this power level year around.
* 60kWh LEAF does not have battery heater, which I think is just an advantage, given the 40kWh model which does but the logic is stupid beyond belief: ON at -20degC battery temperature, OFF at -10, using battery power down to 30% SoC, so better keep it connected to an EVSE in cold conditions. Heater power is around 300W I have heard.
tom66:
The Leaf's preheating setup is better than the ID.3. The ID.3 always preheats from the battery. If you remember you turn on the battery charging once the battery reaches 99% so that it will top up both. I might have to write a Home-Assistant automation for it. That said 98% battery vs 100% is not a big deal and I rarely aim to arrive at the destination on electric fumes so I can probably leave it for now.
The Golf on the other hand would preheat from the mains fine, and if you used a current clamp you could almost see the PTC heater current oscillating on and off at about 2Hz. My guess was the battery was still in parallel but the charger was effectively maintaining a constant battery voltage. Aircon never worked properly from the remote control, which sucked in summer. They did at least fix that in the ID.3.
Siwastaja:
Actual data from Norway where the winter has been pretty harsh too: https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/klart-darligst-i-sprengkulden-helt-ekstremt/16370146/
TLDR, 87% of tow jobs were for ICE vehicles and 13% for EVs, while 23% of vehicles in Norway are EVs, so EVs are significantly more reliable in harsh winter conditions.
Monkeh:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on January 19, 2024, 04:51:55 pm ---TLDR, 87% of tow jobs were for ICE vehicles and 13% for EVs, while 23% of vehicles in Norway are EVs, so EVs are significantly more reliable in harsh winter conditions.
--- End quote ---
Or a greater percentage of EV drivers are either smart enough not to venture out, or in a work or financial position not to venture out. There's a lot of factors.
Better, I think, to say that those numbers suggest EVs aren't demonstrating worse reliability in those conditions.
CatalinaWOW:
This shows examples of what I see in almost all discussions of EVs. The threads are largely populated by two groups of people. People whose use case is easily adapted to EVs and those whose use case doesn't fit well with current EV technology. What both groups have in common is a belief that their use case is universal.
The really positive thing about this thread and this forum is that those two groups are not the only, and not even the dominant voices.
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