General > General Technical Chat
Piles of Tesla owners stranded at charge stations abandons their EV's.
CatalinaWOW:
--- Quote from: David Hess on January 25, 2024, 07:55:29 pm ---
Luckily for us the science of economics can easily and accurately measure the cost of an extended supply chain for the end user with a single number. There is no need to guess.
Well, except for politicians putting their thumbs on the scale for their favored industries. It is part of their nature to ignore economics.
--- End quote ---
Well, sort of. They can easily and precisely generate a number, which may indeed reflect reality for a little while. But very few demand curves are really static and well defined, and politicians are not the only ones affecting them. News media, scientists, social influencers, and many others "put their fingers on the scale", often not intentionally. In addition the total economic system is so interconnected with so many feedback loops that no one can accurately model it.
The most recent blatant example of this is all of the myriad disruptions of the markets caused by the COVID situation. Large auto companies made decisions based on those economic models. And suddenly everyones economic models were wrong and Rasberry Pi''s became unavailable for a couple of years.
Ranayna:
--- Quote from: EEVblog on January 19, 2024, 11:26:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: tom66 on January 19, 2024, 10:49:04 pm ---I don't follow. People buy a vehicle to suit their use cases... but they aren't going to drive their car just because it cost a lot of money. I don't take my car out around the block every night to "get my money's worth". I bought it in part because I have a long commute, and I prefer EVs, and there are environmental benefits...
--- End quote ---
The overall life cycle environmental benefit is questionabale (and probably un-knowable, there are just too many variable). But they certainly have environmental benefits in local air pollution. We literally call our ICE car the "stinky" because of the exhuast. It's amazing the difference you notice between the EV and the ICE. Just sitting there in idle in the drive way the ICE can fill with exhaust fumes. Yet if you don't own an EV you just don't notice the exhaust as you are used to it.
Also obvious benefits in the energy supply chain infrastructure.
Add in the silent ride, the ability to charge at home (from excess solar in my case for zero cost), and the knowledge that regen breaking isn't wasting energy, there is a lot to like about EV's. But they aren't for everyone, and anyone who pushes them as a universal solution to climate change is an idiot.
--- End quote ---
Related:
Last summer, i drove behind a vintage car for some time. I don't remember what make and model, but i have to assume that it was a car without catalytic converter.
That car stunk to high heavens. And the smell lingered in my car for quite a while after it was gone.
Maybe in the past we were all desensitized to that smell, otherwise i have no idea how anyone was able to stand it.
SiliconWizard:
We would just momentarily put AC in air recycling mode, which was rather effective at blocking smell from the outside. Still works.
Marco:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on January 25, 2024, 06:52:16 pm ---Yes. People living in Alaska, Siberia, or maybe Northern Finland, are unlikely to buy EVs anyway
--- End quote ---
If we make it to net zero, when blue/synthetic fossil fuel costs a multiple in fuel costs, I think they will. If we don't soon, it won't be because of maintaining the status quo, it will be because of societal collapse. So then the wood gassifiers will have the last laugh.
Money is a good motivator and the continued existence of the status quo a fantasy.
Compared to all the real problems facing humanity in the near future, net zero is just an appetizer. If they can't handle that, it's all over.
tom66:
--- Quote from: Marco on January 26, 2024, 08:58:33 am ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on January 25, 2024, 06:52:16 pm ---Yes. People living in Alaska, Siberia, or maybe Northern Finland, are unlikely to buy EVs anyway
--- End quote ---
If we make it to net zero, when blue/synthetic fossil fuel costs a multiple in fuel costs, I think they will. If we don't soon, it won't be because of maintaining the status quo, it will be because of societal collapse. So then the wood gassifiers will have the last laugh.
Money is a good motivator and the continued existence of the status quo a fantasy.
Compared to all the real problems facing humanity in the near future, net zero is just an appetizer. If they can't handle that, it's all over.
--- End quote ---
My fear is that as a species we can't comprehend the changes needed to fight climate change and we will fail. If we started 20 years earlier with actual serious efforts then it might have been possible but we are past that point now and we are in to the "mitigate damage" rather than "things could be normal" set of outcomes. No chance of hitting 1.5C, even 2C looks unlikely, more likely somewhere like 2.7-3.5C by 2050.
Now I don't think we will make ourselves extinct or anything so crazy but we will definitely see some very negative shifts in how the climate behaves which will lead to food shortages, resource shortages (particularly fresh water), mass migration and war.
Shame. Been nice being on this planet as it is though. Enjoy the ride.
(It's still worth trying to minimise our impact where we can.)
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