General > General Technical Chat
Piles of Tesla owners stranded at charge stations abandons their EV's.
Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: PlainName on January 16, 2024, 07:12:40 pm ---How does software go wrong, or stop working or whatever is happening, when it's cold?
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You missed the point. My point was, the rate of charging station failures does not go up with colder temperature that much; they fail too much even in nice summer weather. It is just that as charging becomes even more important, we focus on those failures more. So the software failures I referred to are temperature-independent.
nctnico:
--- Quote from: PlainName on January 16, 2024, 07:12:40 pm ---
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on January 16, 2024, 05:26:20 pm ---
--- Quote from: Jeroen3 on January 16, 2024, 01:50:59 pm ---What makes chargers not work when cold?
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Mostly the same reasons why they don't work when warm - stupid idiots overdesigning secondary functions, mostly related to things called "software", "cloud" and whatever. Very rarely the power electronics, or the connectors, or low-level firmware have any problems.
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How does software go wrong, or stop working or whatever is happening, when it's cold? The only way that can happen is if there is code which says, paraphrase, "if (temp < x) print "sorry, too cold to work"".
OTOH, open pretty much any datasheet and it will say working temperature 0-70C, storage 'a bit wider range'. For -20C you're looking at expensive parts, and if they don't want to pay for those then that's not really a software problem.
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It is not the software but communication modules, displays, buttons, etc which don't work when cold or hot IF these are not designed for the environment. Unfortunately some are hugely confident in using modules bought from Aliexpress for such applications.
Siwastaja:
--- Quote from: tom66 on January 16, 2024, 07:35:37 pm ---The better route is watching battery technology progressively improve and seeing fast charge rates increasing even at low temperatures
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This is the point: by watching battery technology improve, you get increased capacity and increased fast charge rates, due to the sheer capacity. This is exactly what we can see: energy and power density of state-of-art li-ion has increased in perfect sync, i.e. the "C-rates" of the cells have not changed much. Anyone who claims "10-minute 20%-80%" as their target is therefore on the wrong track; increasing power capability alone is a compromise which decreases energy density and increases cost per kWh significantly. This is not what we need. We need cumulated small improvements in energy density and cost per kWh, which comes with similar cumulative improvements in charge rates.
I agree with you that 60-70kWh is pretty much the sweet spot, given the weight and cost issues which prevent going much higher. I have also first hand experience how a 35-40kWh pack requires planning and special care, "the EV mindset". Even with 70kWh you are not perfectly free of it, but it's much more convenient experience which more resembles driving a gasoline car, but without having to fill the tank so actually better! There still is a tad of range anxiety left at 60kWh, but it's much less severe than at 40kWh.
It is true though that a 60kWh pack is still quite heavy which is suboptimal for consumption and tire wear. Which is why we are watching battery technology improve. I would like the 60-70kWh class get lighter and cheaper (instead of adding even more capacity) and become THE standard "people's car" class, but at the same time, 35-40kWh class slowly disappear, just like the 2010-era 20kWh class has all but disappeared. As it stands now, quick charge stations are pretty much lined up with those vehicles that absolutely need that extra "20-minute" so actually 50-minute "EV stop" on a trivial trip like visiting grandpa's during winter time.
Halcyon:
--- Quote from: Siwastaja on January 16, 2024, 09:02:58 am ---It's not going to be pretty, but quite obviously the current fossil thing isn't pretty either - when the temperature hits -30degC, there is epidemic of diesel vehicles dying and needing a tow, so :-//
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I don't think that's ever been the case? Those living in cold conditions would be using diesel specific to those conditions. Diesel used in Scandinavian countries work far colder than -30 C.
In Australia, "winter diesel" is sold around Canberra and the alpine regions for this very reason.
EEVblog:
--- Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on January 16, 2024, 05:13:32 pm ---It's hilarious when the anti-EV conspiricy nutters claim that EVs are about "them" controlling you, when ICE cars are 100% dependent on fuel supply, whereas there will always be electricity, ultimately from your own wind/solar if you want complete independence.
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I did a poll last week:
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