Author Topic: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?  (Read 38399 times)

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Offline floobydust

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #75 on: January 26, 2020, 10:19:06 am »
Ok, you all say it's a conspiracy, I'll go with that then.
Hard day at the virus lab and on the way home, pick up dinner at the seafood market?
Or, a lone mutation bat soup?

Bats aggregate and I figure there will be many that have the coronavirus, beyond one seafood market.
"The SARS virus (BSL-3) has escaped from high-level containment facilities in Beijing multiple times,” Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University. Great track record.
At this point, I'm not discounting either "conspiracy" - but wouldn't it keep spreading through bats?
 

Offline imo

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #76 on: January 26, 2020, 11:35:20 am »
..
Bats aggregate and I figure there will be many that have the coronavirus, beyond one seafood market.
..
At this point, I'm not discounting either "conspiracy" - but wouldn't it keep spreading through bats?
All bats around the world carry tons of various viruses (as the all wild animals). In Europe many people start to care about bats (as they hunt insects, we do not like insects in EU). They mount boxes on their houses to accommodate thousands of bats during the winter. They observe them, touch them, play with them, carry them to primary schools and let small children play with them. They show that in TV as a new way how to preserve bats and how to teach children not to be afraid of bats. Soon or later we will get a similar outbreak in EU too, I baet..
« Last Edit: January 26, 2020, 11:50:22 am by imo »
 

Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #77 on: January 26, 2020, 12:20:53 pm »
Wuhan has the highest level biosafety research lab BSL-4, in the entire country. It's a few miles from the seafood market. I doubt it was bat soup, more likely... something escaped confinement. The lab has some pretty scary stuff.

Pardon me, but that is one of the more stupid conspiracy theories I have come across recently. Chemtrails, anyone?

Maybe, maybe not. The CCP exists primarily to protect itself at all costs. If it was a leak from the lab, the blame would definitely be pointed elsewhere. But it is quite possible it did come from illegal activity with live animals at the market which has been going on for years. Unless there is evidence, the source of this coronavirus is just speculation.

It is now evident carriers can have no symptoms up to 14 days since they contracted the virus. This virus is now at risk of being totally out of control if it isn't already. I think the decision by the Australian government to allow an aeroplane load of travellers from Wuhan out of the airport and not into quarantine was reckless.
 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #78 on: January 26, 2020, 01:11:42 pm »
Watch out that 'bravoV' doesn't catch you's posting/replying this in Gen/Chat !  :box:
 

Offline donotdespisethesnake

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #79 on: January 26, 2020, 02:09:16 pm »
Funny, recently I started watching Contagion, but didn't bother finishing it. Too much silliness, although real life is not much better. There seems to be a competition between West and East to see who can come up with the most ridiculous conspiracy theory.

Anyway, the cat/bat/snake seems to be out of the bag with this one, and I think we can look forward to a long period of "public health" stuff in the news.

Obviously, it has been well known for many years that a pandemic virus was just a question of time, so really there is no surprise. It's also well known that governments of any flavour want to project a "don't panic, business as usual" message and also avoid spending any money on precautions that may turn out in hindsight to be a waste of money. The UK spent over £500 million stockpiling antiviral drugs which were never used and probably not effective anyway.

Classic game theory. Humans usually go for the cheapest short term option.
Bob
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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #80 on: January 26, 2020, 11:35:44 pm »
Already in Melbourne in the area I live, noticeably more of the Chinese are wearing masks in public. It is now not such a stupid idea wearing proper surgical masks in public, but I suspect wearing half a black bra over the head does nothing other than make the wearer look like an idiot. It is just a matter of time before westerners in the city will be wearing surgical masks in public. If that happens, when the contagion is over, the Westerners might wear them in public even if they have a cold because it might then be more culturally acceptable.

You'd want to be in the surgical mask making business at a time like this.
 

Offline Jimmy

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2020, 01:55:31 am »
Wearing a surgical mask is a waste of time. They are to redirect particle coming out of you to stop a paicent form being infected.

A better precaution is to wash hands beforeyou touch your eyes or mouth.

Doctors in Wuhan think they got it because they were not wearing eye protection.

 
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2020, 03:57:56 am »
Wearing a surgical mask is a waste of time. They are to redirect particle coming out of you to stop a paicent form being infected.

A better precaution is to wash hands beforeyou touch your eyes or mouth.

Doctors in Wuhan think they got it because they were not wearing eye protection.

Nothing is guaranteed, but having something is better than having nothing.
Sure, everyone washes hands frequently, but who knows where those 125nm particles can seep in.
It's always better safe than sorry.
 
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Offline BravoV

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2020, 06:27:48 am »
Feel sorry for the victims and the people affected including indirect ones, hope things going well there.

Regarding "news", just don't just blindly trust anything you've read, use common sense 1st.

Nowadays even country has openly declare that any news agencies, that willingly to fabricate any news according to their political agenda, will get paid.  :clap:

Simple example, just look/search for SFOP0006326 that is posted on 12/20/2019 ...

  -> Money for the Support for Independent Media .. in a country that needs to must be meddled with ..  :-DD


As these are transparently and publicly announced, just curious what about the ones that are not.  >:D

Offline Bud

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2020, 06:46:39 am »
Wearing a surgical mask is a waste of time. They are to redirect particle coming out of you to stop a paicent form being infected.

Time for some education

https://www.crosstex.com/sites/default/files/public/educational-resources/products-literature/guide20to20face20mask20selection20and20use20-202017.pdf
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2020, 06:52:05 am »
I teach at a University where one of the students has a confirmed case. Am I worried? No.

I wash my hands regularly, I don't touch my face and the student hasn't attended classes since becoming ill. The chances of transmission are actually very low. With several tens of thousands of students walking through the gates every year, one sick person is rather insignificant.

The only heightened concern should be for anyone who has recently travelled or had close contact with someone who has travelled to the Hubei Province of China. Other than that, normal sanitary precautions apply. There really is no reason to panic or carry on about your business any differently.
 

Offline MT

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2020, 04:47:41 pm »
Which is bullshit.
Yes of course its BS because it does not fit your narrative. Why all this butt hurt Chinese Confucian Nationalism? CCN!

Quote
A. All sources are without verification, e.g. confirmation from governments or governmental organisations like WHO, or concrete evidences.
A: China gov is a fascistic gov and west learned what fascism and communism do, they always lie and manipulate.

Quote
B. Method of journalism is not approved and is illegal. Foreign journalists are not allowed to interview Chinese citizens without a license, and AFAIK WSJ, which is where they quote, is not legal in China.
B: Journalism approved by totalitarian methods , well, there you go again. ::)
 
Quote
C. Content is biased. Comments such as "Comically, China has said it would hold officials accountable for any delays or omissions in reporting cases: so far such threats appear to have had precisely zero impact on anyone." is highly unprofessional and subjectively biased.
c: Having public live slaughter of weird animals full of antibiotics and hormones on street pavements for people to bring home and cook is unbelievable unprofessional.

Quote
D. The compound growth rate is not sustainable, as effective medicine is found (some HIV cocktail drugs). Which means mortality rate will drops drastically, and transmission rate will also drop.
D: Chinese food frauds is just stunning, melamine, Sars cover up, fake exploding melons, fake eggs, fake nudls, fake beers containing poison, rivers full of dead plauge pigs, pigs and cows full of hormones and antibiotica  and on and on and on.
No wonder Chinese gov already made deal with Germany and Denemark and now dealing with Sweden for export of pigs!

Quote
E. Basic number mistake. Like the 56 million lock down quarantine number, which is almost 6x the population of Wuhan.
So far, only Wuhan and a few surrounding cities are locked down per official report.
E: The few cities you claim is was already 17 days ago. While China gov cover up real numbers because it make China look bad.

Quote
F. ZeroHedge is known to publish biased, non-government approved, and conspiracy-related articles, and have been criticized by many better established news outlets like CNN, NBC, NY Times, Bloomberg and Facebook.
F: Zerohedge is way less biased then any FAKE media and Chinese gov is, thats quite established, and when someone dont like the news they attack the news provider. Of course media shall be non gov controlled as gov always lies as power always corrupts as you just gave example of. Your trolling saying CNN, NBC, NY Times, Bloomberg and Facebook is reliable news sources but also telling as we know many are controlled by political and intelligentsia powers.

I've been always striving for finding an alternate political system and grant people of the world freedom of choosing between the Western system and something else. I will lose faith in Xi if he ever attempts to be Yeltsin, not now.
That does not rime well with your rants for several years about ultra facism and death to the west!

Not my fault you dont like him. I just try to get info from every source thats not fake news or
China Gov! Where do you get your info from?

Quote
I have absolute faith in Chinese government. I also have other sources of news, all pro-China, like Singaporean CNA, Russian RT among others. I have more faith in Iranian news outlets than Western news outlets.
That does rime with your rants about facism and totalitarian social engineering score control.
Ha! RT pro Chine! that's ludicrous, you obviously havent watched RT much.Russia would newer sell out
Russia to China that why everything turned into a abrupt halt between Crustychew and Mao Se dung crap!

Quote
He provided no evidence of anything he said. That's why abolishing free speech is an absolutely brilliant idea.
Everything HAS TO BE SUBSTANTIATED or you should be tossed to jail for spreading fake news.
Like you do, so facism here we go again! ::)

Quote
I'm not bashing - just pointing out the nearby BSL-4 lab and accumulation there of the most dangerous pathogens in the world. Hopefully not a bioweapons research center.

And there's still no evidence. Considering many victims are Chinese, I'd rather believe it's the West attacking China, and that would also be BS since I can't substantiate it either.
Shut up then and stay silent by your own standards!

Zerohedge on the matter!

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it

Education for Blueskull: Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958--1962,"
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 05:33:36 pm by MT »
 

Offline radiolistener

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2020, 05:12:37 pm »
That does rime with your rants about facism and totalitarian social engineering score control.
Ha! RT pro Chine! that's ludicrous, you obviously havent watched RT much.Russia would newer sell out
Russia to China that why everything turned into a abrupt halt between Crustychew and Mao Se dung crap!

on the other hand, if some catastrophe happens, such as dangerous virus pandemia or nuclear incident with radiation leak, anyway you cannot solve it, but at least you will not know that something dangerous happens in your city and you will not worry about it  :D

So, there are not only cons, but also pros from totalitarian regime...  ;D
 

Offline imo

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2020, 05:19:37 pm »
Quote
“The cheapest sort of pride is national pride; for if a man is proud of his own nation, it argues that he has no qualities of his own of which he can be proud; otherwise he would not have recourse to those which he shares with so many millions of his fellowmen. The man who is endowed with important personal qualities will be only too ready to see clearly in what respects his own nation falls short, since their failings will be constantly before his eyes. But every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.”
Arthur Schopenhauer, The Wisdom of Life, 1851
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 05:28:05 pm by imo »
 
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Offline MT

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2020, 05:25:54 pm »
on the other hand, if some catastrophe happens, such as dangerous virus pandemia or nuclear incident with radiation leak, anyway you cannot solve it, but at least you will not know that something dangerous happens in your city and you will not worry about it  :D

So, there are not only cons, but also pros from totalitarian regime...  ;D

VK3DRB's points to nuking could be extended to nuke the entire planet, no more debates, absolute totalitarian result! >:D

Quote
Quote from: ebastler on Yesterday at 09:43:02 am
Quote
Quote from: imo on Yesterday at 09:33:59 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level#List_of_BSL-4_facilities

And your point is?? Yes, there is a BSL-4 lab in Wuhan. There's also one right here, in Hamburg, and probably one in your home country. So?

That was already pointed out on page 2!
https://www.nature.com/news/inside-the-chinese-lab-poised-to-study-world-s-most-dangerous-pathogens-1.21487

But of course according to Blueskull and his Chinese Gov sources that newer hapended until news about it leaked out.
Quote
But worries surround the Chinese lab, too. The SARS virus has escaped from high-level containment facilities in Beijing multiple times, notes Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University in Piscataway, New Jersey
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 05:44:30 pm by MT »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #90 on: January 27, 2020, 05:41:33 pm »
Yup, can we all just calm down please.
 
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #91 on: January 27, 2020, 05:59:04 pm »
Think of this as calm, though some may find it inflammatory.

Blueskull, I find it hard to believe that someone of your obvious intelligence can say "I have absolute faith in the Chinese government".  Anyone who says something like that about any government is either totally deluded, or under fear of coercion.  I have no reason to believe that the Chinese government is particularly corrupt (other than your own comments on the Chinese national ethos), but all governments are susceptible to the old adage that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

The truth in this corona virus thing is going to come out over time.  Hopefully it is not as terrible as some fear.  But in the end I am sure that some under reporting will turn up.  In a crisis situation things get overlooked, mis-reported.  And with dozens or hundreds of officials involved there is a high likelihood that some few will react poorly. Whether this is significant or not only time will tell.  Overall China seems to be handling this as well or better than I would expect any other country to do.  Better in some aspects, worse than others.  As a particular example the action to quarantine a region is a sound response to an unknown danger.  I can't imagine this being done successfully in the US with all of the cries about personal rights, discrimination and the like that would occur.
 
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Offline blueskull

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #92 on: January 27, 2020, 06:07:40 pm »
Yes of course its BS because it does not fit your narrative.

So you can tell what is BS, great.

A: China gov is a fascistic gov and west learned what fascism and communism do, they always lie and manipulate.

No more than the Western fake democracy and fake sense of freedom, which is all controlled by media control funds of intelligence organizations.
And may I ask how is Chinese government supposed to control WHO and Trump's tweets?

B: Journalism approved by totalitarian methods , well, there you go again. ::)

You must be a supporter of illegal evidence collection by cops. Weird human rights standard.

c: Having public live slaughter of weird animals full of antibiotics and hormones on street pavements for people to bring home and cook is unbelievable unprofessional.

There's no doubt there are many uneducated and barbaric Chinese people. How it is related to professionalism of the government?

D: Chinese food frauds is just stunning, melamine, Sars cover up, fake exploding melons, fake eggs, fake nudls, fake beers containing poison, rivers full of dead plauge pigs, pigs and cows full of hormones and antibiotica  and on and on and on.
No wonder Chinese gov already made deal with Germany and Denemark and now dealing with Sweden for export of pigs!

I have no doubt on the facts you have stated above, but what does it have to do with decreasing of mortality rate and transmission rate of the ongoing pandemic?

E: The few cities you claim is was already 17 days ago. While China gov cover up real numbers because it make China look bad.

Again, evidence please. You have a tendency of stating facts and your imagination.

F: Zerohedge is way less biased then any FAKE media and Chinese gov is, thats quite established, and when someone dont like the news they attack the news provider. Of course media shall be non gov controlled as gov always lies as power always corrupts as you just gave example of. Your trolling saying CNN, NBC, NY Times, Bloomberg and Facebook is reliable news sources but also telling as we know many are controlled by political and intelligentsia powers.

That's exactly why we shouldn't have free speech! Without any sort of control, people naturally tend to lie to gain attention.

That does not rime well with your rants for several years about ultra facism and death to the west!

I didn't have much faith in China either, until I realized only China and the West can give me the resources I need.
The conclusion is not that hard to draw.

That does rime with your rants about facism and totalitarian social engineering score control.

When did pursuing truth become Fascism? I genuinely believe more from CCTV/CGTN than from the West.
CCTV does omit news it doesn't like, and sometimes even block news from spreading from other channels, but a least it doesn't fabricate news, which is a higher moral standard than most if not all Western media outlets.

Russia would newer sell out Russia to China that why everything turned into a abrupt halt between Crustychew and Mao Se dung crap!

Now you are resorting to personal attack. Is this what Swedish people do all the time?

Like you do, so facism here we go again! ::)

I thought you could not sink any lower, and why am I not surprised that spreading news without evidence is allowed in the West.

Shut up then and stay silent by your own standards!

How about you extend the same mutual courtesy?

Zerohedge on the matter!
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/did-china-steal-coronavirus-canada-and-weaponize-it

Was the source of news proved or acknowledged by either Chinese or Canadian governments or WHO or any other governmental organizations?
If not, we are talking absolutely BS here.
See, this level of Sinophobia and its brainwashed idiotic target audience such as you are live proof that free speech without evidence should be abolished.

VK3DRB's points to nuking could be extended to nuke the entire planet, no more debates, absolute totalitarian result! >:D

Which is up to the sole discretion of nuclear super powers. I'm afraid your pathetic little country doesn't even have an entrance ticket to the game.
Such a shame.

But worries surround the Chinese lab, too. The SARS virus has escaped from high-level containment facilities in Beijing multiple times, notes Richard Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University in Piscataway, New Jersey

The entire paper has ONE single reference, which already shows how unprofessional the paper is.
Also, both criticizers are experts of bio safety, they tend to be naturally pessimistic, rather than optimistic like the other interviewees. This is biased o its own.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 06:13:18 pm by blueskull »
 

Offline imo

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2020, 06:12:22 pm »
.. I find it hard to believe that someone of your obvious intelligence can say "I have absolute faith in the Chinese government".  Anyone who says something like that about any government is either totally deluded, or under fear of coercion. 
If you were living in a totalitarian dictatorship, where the citizens are forbidden talk or write to foreign media, or express their thoughts in public, you would see intelligent and highly educated people saying and doing unbelievable things.. Usually a day - two after a Change, those people will start behave normally..
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2020, 06:19:50 pm »
If you were living in a totalitarian dictatorship, where the citizens are forbidden talk or write to foreign media, or express their thoughts in public, you would see intelligent and highly educated people saying and doing unbelievable things.. Usually a day - two after a Change, those people will start behave normally..

China has much more freedom of speech than most of you think.
Can you believe I just got banned by a Chinese forum for defending Chinese government.
I'm seriously thinking to move to N. Korea or Iran if they can support my research. China is getting too free for my taste.
If there is a rapidly rising iron curtain country that doesn't request me to convert to Muslim, I'm moving to it.

And for the record, I've been defending Chinese government even when I was applying US green card, and my political belief then led me to quit the application and sold my house in US for cheap.
If there is a true believer of totalitarianism and is willing to die for it, count me in. I already gave up US green card, which in a rich Chinese businessman's hands equals to $1M, and I never regretted it.
 

Offline ebastler

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2020, 06:22:15 pm »
I'm seriously thinking to move to N. Korea or Iran if they can support my research. China is getting too free for my taste.
If there is a rapidly rising iron curtain country that doesn't request me to convert to Muslim, I'm moving to it.

Please, man, stop posting this provocative crap. Or stop complaining that people fall for the trollbait and attack you in response.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2020, 06:26:35 pm »
Blueskull, I find it hard to believe that someone of your obvious intelligence can say "I have absolute faith in the Chinese government".  Anyone who says something like that about any government is either totally deluded, or under fear of coercion.  I have no reason to believe that the Chinese government is particularly corrupt (other than your own comments on the Chinese national ethos), but all governments are susceptible to the old adage that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Governments are only susceptible to corruption if there is too much power in a few persons. In a functioning democracy corruption will come to light quickly.

However, the biggest problem is that you can't evacuate a large amount of people in a short amount of time. In case of a viral outbreak (or any dissaster -toxic gas for example-) governments can't do much beyond locking the area down and try the best for the people in the affected area. Which is precisely what the Chinese government is doing. In the eyes of many this can be equal to 'too little' but the transport logistics are the biggest hurdle.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2020, 06:27:10 pm »
If you were living in a totalitarian dictatorship, where the citizens are forbidden talk or write to foreign media, or express their thoughts in public, you would see intelligent and highly educated people saying and doing unbelievable things.. Usually a day - two after a Change, those people will start behave normally..

China has much more freedom of speech than most of you think.
Can you believe I just got banned by a Chinese forum for defending Chinese government.
I'm seriously thinking to move to N. Korea or Iran if they can support my research. China is getting too free for my taste.
If there is a rapidly rising iron curtain country that doesn't request me to convert to Muslim, I'm moving to it.

And for the record, I've been defending Chinese government even when I was applying US green card, and my political belief then led me to quit the application and sold my house in US for cheap.
If there is a true believer of totalitarianism and is willing to die for it, count me in. I already gave up US green card, which in a rich Chinese businessman's hands equals to $1M, and I never regretted it.

The thread is about the virus. Let's please keep it there. If you are going to over react to everything you deem to be negative about your country then leave the discussion!
 

Offline jonovid

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2020, 06:30:35 pm »
All the run around like a chicken with its head cut off   :scared:
Get a grip!  ::) just another ebola type viruse that is downplayed in China
exaggerated in the western media.
no its not the end of the world! they will have it under control with in 2 to 3 weeks.
the fatality rate is in 50 to 60 not 1000,s
Hobbyist with a basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Pneumonia virus in China - Can Ebay packages be infected?
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2020, 06:34:22 pm »
i have not heared of the recoveries in the news. Well i have a food stash.
 


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