Author Topic: POLL: Should there be an Off-Topic Forum section? (Read 12570 times)

EEVblog · « **on:** February 09, 2013, 11:20:17 am »

As the title says.
There has been an increase in off-topic posts recently. And I've been stopping these in their tracks.
But it was suggested that there should be an off-topic section (with the usual no personal attack rule of course).

I can see pros and cons both ways, but mostly cons IMO.
i.e. off-topic stuff showing up on the unread posts list.

What does everyone think?

Dave.

Neilm · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:32:30 am »

People are always going to want to post something off topic - sometimes a little way off other times a long way off. There have been quite a lot of the latter recently (climate), but some would argue that some things (hybrid cars) had some relevance.

While I don't think I would read any, an area for off topic posts would at least put all the dross in one place, preferably with a "mark as read" button above the lot of them

Neil

Bloch · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:41:17 am »

Not needed.

But I do miss the chat window.

firewalker · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:49:15 am »

If you could prevent it form "Show unread posts" go ahead. I don't think it is something essential though.

Alexander.

GeoffS · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:50:37 am »

As this is an electronics forum I think any topic posted should have some connection to electronics.

There are any number of forums devoted to politics, religion, perpetual motion and other types of snake oil. If you feel the need to post on the subject, join one of them.

Neilm · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:01:28 pm »

Quote from: GeoffS on February 09, 2013, 11:50:37 am

As this is an electronics forum I think any topic posted should have some connection to electronics.

There are any number of forums devoted to politics, religion, perpetual motion and other types of snake oil. If you feel the need to post on the subject, join one of them.

Agreed, but as someone will ignore this and post anyway - lets give them somewhere out of the way they can post and the rest of us can ignore. (unless we get a lot of audiofools - I do enjoy a laugh)
Neil

EEVblog · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:07:34 pm »

Quote from: Neilm on February 09, 2013, 12:01:28 pm

Agreed, but as someone will ignore this and post anyway - lets give them somewhere out of the way they can post and the rest of us can ignore.

I guess it should ultimately come down to either having an off-topic section, or banning off-topic stuff entirely

Up until now it's been a bit wishy-washy, with the "occasional off-topic post allowed".

Dave.

GeoffS · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:08:18 pm »

Quote from: Neilm on February 09, 2013, 12:01:28 pm

Quote from: GeoffS on February 09, 2013, 11:50:37 am

As this is an electronics forum I think any topic posted should have some connection to electronics.

There are any number of forums devoted to politics, religion, perpetual motion and other types of snake oil. If you feel the need to post on the subject, join one of them.

Agreed, but as someone will ignore this and post anyway - lets give them somewhere out of the way they can post and the rest of us can ignore. (unless we get a lot of audiofools - I do enjoy a laugh)
Neil

If we don't have a special area for them to post, perhaps they'll go elsewhere. We lose the loony posts and the loony posters, that's a win-win situation.

BravoV · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:10:05 pm »

Nope, imo the current General section is enough, its just moderators should be more proactively move new created threads in this particular crowded section to each of their own respective sub-sections, like noob beginner electronic related question thread, should be moved to Beginner section, or like tear down thread, move it to Product Review section and so on.

EEVblog · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:15:15 pm »

Quote from: GeoffS on February 09, 2013, 12:08:18 pm

If we don't have a special area for them to post, perhaps they'll go elsewhere. We lose the loony posts and the loony posters, that's a win-win situation.

It's not just about the "loony" stuff though.
I've found it quite common that some people will only be active on one special interest forum, and they grow to trust people on that forum and respect their opinion etc, so often it's a natural place to ask off-topic questions like "which camera should I buy", or "does anyone know how to fix my plumbing problem" etc even though the odds are lower of someone knowing the answer.

Dave.

GeoffS · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2013, 12:18:21 pm »

Quote from: BravoV on February 09, 2013, 12:10:05 pm

Nope, imo the current General section is enough, its just moderators should be more proactively move new created threads in this particular crowded section to each of their own respective sub-sections, like noob beginner electronic related question thread, should be moved to Beginner section, or like tear down thread, move it to Product Review section and so on.

This is just misplaced posts that, given notification, the moderators can take care of. What Dave is referring to is the completely off topic posts i.e no electronics content at all.

Christe4nM · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2013, 01:01:12 pm »

IMHO this is an electronics forum. So naturally we talk about and discuss electronics related topics. There are many general forums where about every other bit of topic can be discussed. I think the general chat section offers enough bandwith for "slightly-less-electronics-related" topics. It's up to our admin and moderators where the limits to "slightly less" are placed.

Apart from that I've experienced on another forum that an off topic section can turn into a place where a certain subset of forum users is very active, resulting (almost) in a "clan" with their own language, inside jokes etc. Almost even dictating the forum ethics (since they are long-term users and familiar with the moderators on personal level), and at least resulting in a polarization to those who belong to the clan and those who don't. This also flowed into the non-off-topic sections. Now I am not saying that this is sure to happen, it might have been just the culture of that particular forum. I just think that it should be taken into account.

Lastly, there is a risk that in time the off-topic section will overshadow the electronics sections. By that I mean that the off-topic section becomes the hang-out place instead of the electronics-related sections. I think that's very undesirable. Again, that is just my experience elsewere and YMMW.

One of the great things of the EEVBlog Forum IMHO is that every user is welcomed, and long-term users and short-term users are considered equal. In due time some members rightfully got the reputation as very knowledgable, nothing wrong with that; they still keep sharing and helping the very beginners along. I've experienced this forum as a place where first and foremost our knowledge and experience in electronics is shared. I think it should be 'that', since that works.

So my vote is a big NO to an off topic section.

SLJ · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2013, 02:23:38 pm »

There's enough other forums out there to discuss things off topic. Open topic forum discussions tend to get out of hand pretty quickly.

David_AVD · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2013, 02:29:33 pm »

To be honest I get sick of wading through all the politics, conspiracy, etc shit. There are plenty of other forums where those posts are welcomed.

robrenz · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2013, 02:34:39 pm »

IMO off topic will add more negatives than positives. This forum seems to have a generally good camaraderie

so why encourage a avenue that has a high potential to degrade that?

andersm · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2013, 02:36:01 pm »

If it means all the crap Reddit threads can be put into one place where no-one ever has to see them, awesome.

alm · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2013, 03:31:13 pm »

I agree that an off-topic forum will probably require a lot of attention from the moderators. I don't really care either way, whichever way is more effective to keep them from clogging up the unread posts list. If there would be an off-topic forum, I would never visit it.

The advantage of having an off-topic forum is that the threshold for moving threads there will be lower than for closing threads all together.

helloworld922 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2013, 03:38:57 pm »

My vote is no, I don't think the wild snake oil and random junk should be here.

However, there are some things I do think would be nice to have which aren't nicely covered by other current sections:

1. A site feedback section. Maybe split the feedback section into stuff dealing with blog and stuff dealing with the site/forum?

2. Perhaps a section dedicated to "identify this" (some electronics component/device)? A single thread with hundreds or thousands of post mixed together doesn't seem to work that well IMO

3. A place for "lighter" electronics-related stuff, such as jokes or funny finds. I guess this is kind of what I would like this off-topic/general chat section to be in the first place. I saw that Simon had proposed something similar.

Just my 2 cents.

HLA-27b · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2013, 04:28:57 pm »

Quote from: helloworld922 on February 09, 2013, 03:38:57 pm

3. A place for "lighter" electronics-related stuff, such as jokes or funny finds. I guess this is kind of what I would like this off-topic/general chat section to be in the first place. I saw that Simon had proposed something similar.

You've got a point.
General chat sounds exactly like "Dump it here if you don't know where else to put it"

Lightages · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2013, 04:34:12 pm »

There seem to be some members here that use most of their time posting non-electronics subjects already. Giving them open permission will flood this place with more junk..... Please no.

jaqie · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2013, 05:20:17 pm »

The lack of a "crap" section is actually one of the big reasons I really like this forum, it's only electronics, none of the braindead banter and crap that infests all the other forums out there.

MikeK · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2013, 05:25:48 pm »

The question is: If you create one to "try it and see" and then decide to shut it down, do you lose valuable members?...Or do you just lose the cranks?

Something else I'm wondering about: What if it was only available every other month, or every third month? What happens to the cranks' behavior? The Interwebs gives cranks 24/7 access. Would they do something constructive if they couldn't vent all the time?

IanB · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2013, 05:45:42 pm »

I don't think there is a need for a special off topic forum. It would dilute the forum and make extra work for the moderators.

I think off-topic posts are a matter of balance and common sense. I hope that if I occasionally happened to start an irreverent or non-electronics related thread in General Chat it would be tolerated, as long as I didn't make a habit of it, and that I balanced it with plenty of on topic threads.

If people really want to go mad we could direct them to www.crazyontap.com, where off-topic posts are the only posts that are on topic.

Sionyn · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2013, 08:01:44 pm »

its very simple

when you are considering any matter ask your self ONLY what are the facts

grumpydoc · « **Reply #24 on:** February 09, 2013, 08:16:07 pm »

I vote no.

General chat already has a charter that allows "slightly off topic" threads which should be enough (with appropriate moderation).

However, given the recent "test equipment obsession" thread I wonder whether a separate forum for discussion of test equipment might be useful.

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #25 on:** February 09, 2013, 08:18:21 pm »

Quote from: IanB on February 09, 2013, 05:45:42 pm

If people really want to go mad we could direct them to www.crazyontap.com, where off-topic posts are the only posts that are on topic.

sounds like a good place to persuade people about audiophoolery stuffs, free energy and global warming... and err, god does/doesnt exist stuffs.

Quote from: grumpydoc on February 09, 2013, 08:16:07 pm

However, given the recent "test equipment obsession" thread I wonder whether a separate forum for discussion of test equipment might be useful.

discussing asperger syndrome is an off-topic issue. no offense intended to anybody, just saying.

c4757p · « **Reply #26 on:** February 09, 2013, 08:47:57 pm »

Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2013, 12:07:34 pm

I guess it should ultimately come down to either having an off-topic section, or banning off-topic stuff entirely
Up until now it's been a bit wishy-washy, with the "occasional off-topic post allowed".

Honestly, I prefer it this way. I don't think it's really all that bad - there are some off-topic posts but they are easy enough to ignore. Just clean some up if they get too bad. I think an entire off-topic section would be a waste - can you imagine how idiotic it would get? - and "banning x entirely" for most values of x just makes the forum feel too restrictive. I'd rather allow a little off-topic discussion, and if it gets too bad, start closing some of the most off-topic threads.

jancumps · « **Reply #27 on:** February 09, 2013, 09:34:23 pm »

I voted don't care. Off-topic can be an indication that you're building a community.
But it's ok either way.

EEVblog · « **Reply #28 on:** February 09, 2013, 09:57:05 pm »

Looks like the no's have it so far.
I'll let the poll run a little while longer...

Dave.

grumpydoc · « **Reply #29 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:02:25 pm »

Quote

discussing asperger syndrome is an off-topic issue. no offense intended to anybody, just saying.

Don't disagree with that one, but I still think separating out test equipment as a sub folder of product discussion would be reasonable.

ErikTheNorwegian · « **Reply #30 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:48:06 pm »

Quote from: grumpydoc on February 09, 2013, 10:02:25 pm

Quote
discussing asperger syndrome is an off-topic issue. no offense intended to anybody, just saying.
Don't disagree with that one, but I still think separating out test equipment as a sub folder of product discussion would be reasonable.

I sertenly don agree, aspergers is for some, the reason they got a obsession for collecting instruments..
Its spot on the topic: Equipment obession on this forum?

I know there is at least 5 aspies on this forum, probl. many more.

So your discussing of asperger syndrome is an off-topic issue is higly OFF-TOPIC!

grumpydoc · « **Reply #31 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:50:03 pm »

Quote

So your discussing of asperger syndrome is an off-topic issue is higly OFF-TOPIC!

I almost certainly have Asperger's myself. I don't come here to discuss it.

jaqie · « **Reply #32 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:54:21 pm »

talking about asperger's on it's own: off topic.

talking about how asperger's may or does relate to the EE hobby/profession: on topic.

I don't know why nobody else seems to understand this.

ErikTheNorwegian · « **Reply #33 on:** February 09, 2013, 10:59:15 pm »

Quote from: grumpydoc on February 09, 2013, 10:50:03 pm

Quote
So your discussing of asperger syndrome is an off-topic issue is higly OFF-TOPIC!

I almost certainly have Asperger's myself. I don't come here to discuss it.

Not to explane the reason for the topic of the tread?
It was just a explanation for why some of us have the obsession for instruments. In topic..

If the forum got to be 100% on topic, not explaining real reasons, takes itself so serious that its like a NASA spec for a spaceship, then i think we all have lost what we all are, humans in all variations.

Beware, clean you mind for untopic thoughts before you enter this room.. beware

jeroen74 · « **Reply #34 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:19:43 pm »

In my obsession thread I did not refer to personal obsession with test equipment, but that the forum, as a whole, seems to be obsessed with it.

Obsession is maybe too strong a wording; a more moderately worded title could have been: 'why is the majority of threads about test gear? (so it seems)'

Thor-Arne · « **Reply #35 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:24:37 pm »

I vote no for a off-topic section.

Of course I think one should be allowed to discuss stuff like what printer to use for making PCB-transfer, and other semi-related discussions.

The less "garbage" the forum gets, the better it gets.

My two cents. or "øre" rather :p

grumpydoc · « **Reply #36 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:29:31 pm »

Quote

Not to explane the reason for the topic of the tread?
It was just a explanation for why some of us have the obsession for instruments. In topic..

Perhaps, it was probably relevant to the equipment thread but it's a fine line.

It's also a personal line, sorry, I'm a bit negative about the Asperger's thing at the moment.

ErikTheNorwegian · « **Reply #37 on:** February 09, 2013, 11:33:07 pm »

Quote from: jeroen74 on February 09, 2013, 11:19:43 pm

In my obsession thread I did not refer to personal obsession with test equipment, but that the forum, as a whole, seems to be obsessed with it.

Obsession is maybe too strong a wording; a more moderately worded title could have been: 'why is the majority of threads about test gear? (so it seems)'

Well, you are out of topic, but in topich since you change the topic of a alredy topic that in many poples eyes are out of topic. O0

"the forum, as a whole" consist of people, and its what the people that uses this forum brings to it, will reflect whats in it.
The man intrest seems to be in many cases instruments, the use, history, models and so on..

Some have a interest that comes from a professionally point, they use them every day. Need them to be correct and well maintained (Calibrated). And some has taken it somewhat further and collect them as stamps, and some has become so obsessed with them that their whole house and life is just about test gear. What people outside the comunity would judge this as, is well worth a thought.

c4757p · « **Reply #38 on:** February 10, 2013, 01:20:03 am »

Damn, drape a few red and black cables around that picture and it's my workbench. Dump a box of resistors over it all and it's Jim Williams' desk!

Stiege · « **Reply #39 on:** February 10, 2013, 02:23:39 am »

The same way that contest section pops up after you have 5 posts, maybe have something similar for off topic, and ban it elsewhere?

I think it's good to try and keep the focus on electronics so electronics people are attracted to the forum. I'd be annoyed if I posed a question and then found it difficult to separate a genuine answer from the noise of people who aren't even here for electronics.

Just a thought...

cwalex · « **Reply #40 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:12:52 am »

I voted yes. When I was playing around with AVRs I spent a lot of time on avrfreaks forum and found lots of interesting discussion in the off topic forum. There are lots of really smart interesting people contributing on this forum, I think an off topic forum would be a good thing here too.

smashedProton · « **Reply #41 on:** February 10, 2013, 04:43:58 am »

We should have a dating advice/story/therapy/bitches be crazy thread before we have an off topic thread. Just a suggestion

smashedProton · « **Reply #42 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:53:01 am »

I thought that this is the off topic thread... There is one further down that is clearly labeled technical stuff. Anything that is engineering related, or something that we may care about should be in here. By some of the definitions of off topic, the 787 battery explosion could be off topic too. If you don't like general chat, dont read general chat.

vk6zgo · « **Reply #43 on:** February 10, 2013, 05:54:56 am »

Dunno!

If it didn't work & you shut it down,would the users just leave altogether?
I would hate to lose some of the people who although,to me,have really way out political or religious ideas,are really nice folks & contribute
a lot of good "on topic" stuff as well.

Some time back,QRZ.com got tired of ongoing political brawls in their "Ragchew" section,so instituted a "Political Junkies"section to give the
enthusiasts for that sort of posts somewhere to go.(I almost said "nuts"-----bummer!, I did!

)

Well,it was a disaster!
Ongoing personal attacks,extremist political nonsense of all types--so eventually they shut it down,& heavily moderated the other sections!

On reflection,I think I'll vote No!

Mechatrommer · « **Reply #44 on:** February 10, 2013, 06:05:50 am »

Quote from: vk6zgo on February 10, 2013, 05:54:56 am

Well,it was a disaster!

no its not, if you choose to ignore.

vk6zgo · « **Reply #45 on:** February 10, 2013, 06:40:12 am »

Shafri,it was for the Moderators who couldn't ignore it!

GEuser · « **Reply #46 on:** February 10, 2013, 07:23:40 am »

Hi Dave , i see your sentiment on the subject as there can be some valid off topics yet some just a waste of space and electrons , i do feel for those moderators sometimes (rarely and sometimes

)...

If i had a idea on the subject i would say

, Maybe a special Off Topic moderator that has to receive a request for allowing a deliberately off topic thread starter "first" with a explanation of why it is off topic and why on a electronics forum , sort of like a preorganized-censorship ?.

All other not even loosely associated off topics should be treated as per normal and just canned! but one canning is anothers violation of human rights

cheers aye and thanks for the concerns of all

, (or most

)

jaqie · « **Reply #47 on:** February 10, 2013, 07:46:51 am »

Quote from: GEuser on February 10, 2013, 07:23:40 am

. . . . violation of human rights . . . .

Ummm this is private property, there is no such thing as free speech or human rights on it. Dave can govern it any way he sees fit.

EEVblog · « **Reply #48 on:** February 10, 2013, 07:56:42 am »

Well, it looks like the tribe has spoken.
Given that I personally can see more negatives than positives with an off-topic section, it really needed a good Yes majority to change the status quo.
So we'll just keep the things the way they are.
The preference is for any topic started to have some sort of relevance to electronics or related engineering, but occasional off-topic threads are tolerated. Mods can use their own discretion to shut them down or simply delete them before they take hold. or to branch off threads that have drifted off-topic.

Dave.

jancumps · « **Reply #49 on:** February 10, 2013, 07:59:39 am »

Lock this thread now and duck for cover

grumpydoc · « **Reply #50 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:00:59 am »

Quote

Dave can govern it any way he sees fit.

Not quite, it still has to be run according to applicable law - he would run into trouble if he used it to exchange illegal material, or made posts intended to incite racial hatred etc.

But in terms of "are off topic posts allowed", yep it's Dave's playroom and Dave's rules.

EEVblog · « **Reply #51 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:02:32 am »

Quote from: smashedProton on February 10, 2013, 05:53:01 am

By some of the definitions of off topic, the 787 battery explosion could be off topic too.

No, that one is definitely on-topic. Strictly speaking it doesn't have to be electronics as such, but most things that involve engineering and/or the physical sciences in some way I would also deem on topic enough to have a place here. The other mods would have their own definition of what on-topic-ness is, and they are free to use their discretion as they always have.

Dave.

GEuser · « **Reply #52 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:25:38 am »

Quote from: jaqie on February 10, 2013, 07:46:51 am

Quote from: GEuser on February 10, 2013, 07:23:40 am
. . . . violation of human rights . . . .
Ummm this is private property, there is no such thing as free speech or human rights on it. Dave can govern it any way he sees fit.

I do not take kindly to being censored

, please quote the applicable wording so one can see it in context!

"Anothers" violation of human rights , meaning in context of anothers violation is far far different to the norm ie; a perverted molester is human? and has rights?

I also see that your Sarcasm meter is not turned on from ones response ? , or maybe one should buy one %-B i think there might be a review of one in the review section going cheap!

Chet T16 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:53:31 am »

Quote from: EEVblog on February 09, 2013, 12:15:15 pm

I've found it quite common that some people will only be active on one special interest forum, and they grow to trust people on that forum and respect their opinion etc, so often it's a natural place to ask off-topic questions like "which camera should I buy", or "does anyone know how to fix my plumbing problem" etc even though the odds are lower of someone knowing the answer.

Dave.

I haven't read the rest of the thread but this is the exact reason why all forums need an off topic section.

Why wouldn't someone want the opinion of someone who clearly shares common interests even if it's off topic.

EEVblog · « **Reply #54 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:57:40 am »

Quote from: Chet T16 on February 10, 2013, 08:53:31 am

I haven't read the rest of the thread but this is the exact reason why all forums need an off topic section.
Why wouldn't someone want the opinion of someone who clearly shares common interests even if it's off topic.

I would not be against having a specific off-topic questions area, but it would have to be limited to questions.
But really, such off-topic questions would probably not get deleted or locked by the mods anyway, because they are usually harmless, so come under the "occasional off-topic" post category.

Dave.

SgtRock · « **Reply #55 on:** February 10, 2013, 09:14:53 am »

Greetings EEVBees:

--Well, that clears that up. I feel better already.

"Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused. But on a higher level."
Enrico Fermi 1901 1954

Best Regards
Clear Ether

Alana · « **Reply #56 on:** February 10, 2013, 10:18:03 am »

I agree with all of you who say that this is electronics forum and politics and other discussions like that have their own place on the internet - far away from here.
For other off-topic but technically related stuff "general chat" is in my opinion enough.

firewalker · « **Reply #57 on:** February 10, 2013, 12:15:37 pm »

TBH an of topic section would be great for the ones bellow...

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/461687407/kickstarter-open-source-death-star
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/simonkwan/crowdfunding-rebel-alliance-x-wing-squadron

Alexander.


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Poll

Should there be an Off-Topic Forum section?

Author Topic: POLL: Should there be an Off-Topic Forum section? (Read 12570 times)

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