Author Topic: Possible life on Venus?  (Read 5056 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 06:13:04 am »
That news leaked out a while ago. It seems to be 99% "we don't know" and 1% "it could be life of some sort".

The thing is they have spent several years trying to figure out what it could be, and have rules out virtually everything except some form of life, or some natural process we don't yet know about. Could be more than 1% chance!  :popcorn:

 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 06:15:09 am »
The interesting thing is apparently there is a strata layer in the clouds on Venus that would allow human to actually survive with just supplemental oxygen. Pressures and temperatures are apparently very similar to earth and suitable for humans.
No idea what it takes to stay at a certain height in the atmosphere though?
 

Offline magic

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 06:49:39 am »
 :=\

Meanwhile on Earth, Dave, what has happened to your avatar? I get a reference to this image in HTML
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=14049;type=avatar
and it tells me to report this to the administrator :)
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 07:00:35 am »
Meanwhile on Earth, Dave, what has happened to your avatar? I get a reference to this image in HTML

Hmm, no idea!
Yes, my icon seems to have vanished.
 

Offline magic

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 07:11:44 am »
I think SMF has life of its own and is fighting back against all attempts to fix image uploads ;)
 
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Offline cdev

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2020, 08:19:59 pm »

There are birds, swifts, that spand most but not all of their lifecycle flying, that live on Earth, in Europe.

But to lay their eggs and hatch them they have to return to Earth.   They even sleep while they are flying.

The interesting thing is apparently there is a strata layer in the clouds on Venus that would allow human to actually survive with just supplemental oxygen. Pressures and temperatures are apparently very similar to earth and suitable for humans.
No idea what it takes to stay at a certain height in the atmosphere though?
"What the large print giveth, the small print taketh away."
 

Offline 460voltclub

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2020, 07:27:35 pm »
If a single cell is found on a planet people call it life, then why are fetuses not considered life when in the first few day after fertilization there are thousands of cells under going changes and exhibiting life.
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2020, 09:42:34 pm »
Let's keep this discussion on-topic and not make it political, particularly when what you're saying isn't accurate in the slightest.
 
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Offline Rick Law

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2020, 03:59:28 am »
The sticking points I have with the venus-life hypothesis is in order to survive the 80% sulphuric acid clouds, either:

1) the life forms have a completely different basis to Earth (e.g a non-carbon base). That would be an even more shocking discovery.
...
...

Unless we water down the definition of life significantly, chances are, life will be carbon based.

Silicon has been a source of great excitement.  But detailed analysis of the chemistry puts silicon based life form rather unlikely on earth due to certain limitations.  Those limitations applies on earth and elsewhere since it is just part of silicon's chemistry.  The limitations are:

(1) Silicon oxide is solid.  For us,  carbon dioxide being gas and soluble in water, we can expel it easily.  Silicon dioxide on the other hand is "virtually insoluble" below (about) 40C.  For silicon based life form, that means it has to be rather hot (high Atmospheric pressure can help).  An alternative is a method of disposal.   Where energy is needed within a part the body, that energy-needing part will need to evolve a way to collect and dispose of solid waste before it can depend on having energy.  Can do but much more complex thus much less likely.

(2) Handedness with carbon molecules allow one enzyme/molecule to "key-lock" like fit to another enzyme/molecule.  This aids bio-molecules with their ability "regulate" (fit/not-fit) processes precisely and efficiently.  Silicon molecules with handedness is far fewer than carbon molecules with handedness.  So, choices are limiting and there by functions are more limited.

(3) Even with the "Stanley Kipping Award in Silicon Chemistry" encouraging silicon molecule development, many silicon molecules needed for life has not been successfully made.  Thermodynamic data confirm these carbon molecules analogs using silicon are "often unstable".

(4) The chain reactions of carbon molecule chemistry to make life work has limitations: each reaction has a temperature and pH range.  For the entire chain to work, all reaction must fit within a range that the entire chain can work.  The silicon-analog chain reactions can't all fit within the same range from one reaction to another.  So any needed chain reactions will be necessarily a shorter chain or can't chain at all.

So, in X-Files, silicon based life form makes an exciting story.  In real life, it is kind of hard to see silicon working with some degree of complexity.

Reference:

The points above are summarized from Raymond Dessy's (Scientific Americans' Feb 1998) article on Silicon life.  Raymond Dessy is a professor of Chemistry at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, Va.

You can get to the article here:
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/could-silicon-be-the-basi/

EDIT: corrected a missing "not" - "has yet been made" corrected to "has not been made" in point #3.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 04:13:20 am by Rick Law »
 

Online BrianHG

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2020, 06:28:30 am »


This second one nails it...


 

Offline GlennSprigg

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Re: Possible life on Venus?
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2020, 11:51:04 am »
Since the early beginnings of our intelligent existence, mankind (womankind) has pined after the idea of life elsewhere.
We (most) forget the possibility at least, of say carbon-based molecules or ammonia based structures being at least a
precursor to some sort of basic enzyme. Given time, such components are responsible for such proliferous life on Earth!
99.9999% of such existences, if/when found, will not be walking with us, and saying "Take me to your leader"!   :D

To MY mind, it is not a question regarding whether life exists elsewhere. One needs to be honest with one's self, when
looking at the sheer vastness of the Universe, containing billions of Galaxies with billions of 'stars' within each, that to deny
not just the 'possibility' of existence elsewhere, but conclude that it absolutely must exist! Even ones that communicate.

The only resulting conclusion that we 'can' reasonably postulate, is that there is a huge difference between acknowledging
that they exist, and believing that they ever have or will make contact or come here!! Two totally different situations!
You can look at the formulas that exist, to look at the probability of life elsewhere, which are beyond the scope of this
discussion of mine.... Suffice to say that even if the chance of life in another solar system was 100,000,000,000,000 to 1,
that the known universe is so huge that 'life' is still generally proliferous !!  For now, accept the mere molecules!   8)
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 


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