Possible to invent an electronic device without capital have any here done this?

[jmelson]

Many of the well known names in electronics begin with very little.  I would say that was without capital, but of course, they did need some money.

Here are four names  that come to mind:
Bill Hewlett (Hewlett-Packard)
David Packard (Hewlett-Packard)
Michael Dell (Dell Computer)
Varian brothers (Varian Associates)

I'm certainly not in the same league as those guys, but I am running a small business from home, mostly making motion control boards for small shops/home shops.  See http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/index.php

to take a look at the kind of stuff I make.  I have never used outside capital or borrowed against my home.  None of this stuff required very serious lab development, however.  Just a concept, skecth up a schematic and design a board, buy some parts and build a prototype.

Jon

[westfw]

So right now I have two great ideas [dog finder] and [(cheaper) shot spotter]

"Inventing" is seldom a viable "business model."  You have to provide what the customer wants.  In the examples of your ideas, customers don't want plans for a dog or shot finder; they want a service that finds dogs or spots shots.  Those are much more complex to provide.  An actual product.  Manufacturing.  Pre-sales support.  Sales.  Installation SUPPORT.  Post-sales SUPPORT, reliable SUPPORT.  Oh - no deserting the people with shot-spotters to go off and find dogs, either; if you're going to support LE and/or Military, they'll want some evidence that the tech providers are going to be around for at least a decade.

I too have an idea for a cheap shot spotter.  It's just an audio detector, an arduino-class CPU with GPS (gets location and does time sync), plus a comm link to central computing that can take a set of of "bang heard at x,y at t=h:m:s.us" and triangulate.  Easy Peasy.  Fits in a lunchbox.  The compute part can happen on your phone.  Shucks, you can use a phone for the "comm" part and do the calcs in each unit, too.
The fact that real units are apparently more complex than that PROBABLY means that I don't fully understand the problem(s) involved.  I mean, "how much are those weatherproof housings and microphones?  Oh Crap!"  And what does it take for its logs to be legally admissible?  (is that even necessary?)  (Is someone going to sue me for violating 4th amendment rights?  Listening to and locating their noises? (https://www.npr.org/2019/04/23/716248823/court-says-using-chalk-on-tires-for-parking-enforcement-violates-constitution ))  WTH costume do I wear to impress LE and Military during the sales meetings?  And wait - does someone already have patents on the underlying ideas for this?  (how many?)  How many LAWYERS am I going to need?

I've got several Arduino-like designs "out there", and I'm painfully aware that I can't actually manufacture ANY of them at a "price that the market will bear", not to mention that I really have no interest in doing manufacturing and sales and related business stuff.  So I'm happy if ever ONE other hobbyist orders PCBs from China and builds one for themselves...  I'd be ecstatic if some vendors "stole" the design and it started to show up on Aliexpress at prices I could never hope to achieve.

As for "intellectual property protection" - One of the effect means to protect an idea is to PUBLISH it.  That prevents other people from patenting the same thing.  If you're lucky, maybe some company will approach you to license the idea for one-time-cash or maybe royalties (less likely.  Having to pay royalties really sucks, from a company perspective.)  Maybe they'll offer you a job.  If you're unlucky you might get a cease-and-desist "we already OWN that idea, and we think you're leaking trade secrets!" :-(
The whole "I have a great idea but don't want to say anything about it" is probably the WORST IP PROTECTION EVER.

[ejeffrey]

In terms of getting investment capital: there is plenty of it out there (too much by some accounts) at pretty much every scale from a a $10,000 kickstarter project to $100M venture capital investment to a $500M SPAC.

Everyone else has covered that you need more than an idea, you need a prototype and eventually a product and a business.  However there are a couple other things you need, especially if you are going to raise capital.

First you need the product people want.  Obviously people want to find their dogs and people want to avoid gunfire.  That is great.  But you have to make sure that your product will actually solve their problem.  It has to work in the conditions they want, at a cost they are willing to pay, in a way that makes sense to them. and it has to be better than the alternatives they are currently using.  Too many "brilliant" inventions are technically clever but solve a problem different than the one their customers actually have.  VCs will want to make sure you understand your market and your customer. 

Second, raising money is a skill and it is different from engineering.  Most engineers are bad at it and many of them don't even realize it is a skill.  You need someone who can both do the financial analysis of your product and present it in a way that makes sense to investors.  This is mostly basic stuff like how bit is the potential market?  How much would people likely pay for this?  How much will it cost us to produce?  How easy would it be for someone to undercut us?  How big of a team will we need to run this operation and how much money do we need to raise to have a shot at succeeding in the market?   Investors want to know this, and they want to see that you have done your homework and that you have the experience that your projections can be trusted.

I have a friend who invented a dog toy.  It's nothing special, but he built prototypes, gave them to friends who gave good reviews, worked out how to manufacture it, patented it, and trademarked both the name and appearance it and made industry contacts.  He eventually sold it to a major pet toy manufacturer and at least for several years it was sold at every petco in the US, it may still be.  It's possible to do this, but it takes a lot more than just having an idea.

[Beamin]

My "Shot spotter" would also work in cities with devices on telephone poles to alert police. I  really want to make this before some one else realizes how easily It could be done

This is already being done, isn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator

This is implemented differently It uses 95% cheap off the shelf components/systems and combines them through software. So the parts are already made, like instead of rolling your own PSU (See eevblog"worlds crappiest tablet" where dave cant stop laughing at a medical device made to be a real production product. Not even duct tape but cheaper scotch tape hold together the custom PSU where it had to have been much more parts and labor then buying off shelf PSU's, GTW one of my fav videos. Its like the crosby record players: to save about 0.01$ per unit on screws they hold the whole thing together with not even hot snott but low temp. hot glues) you just buy a lambda PSU with the specs you need.

So even if someone already has the idea this is better because of production cost and taking hard, specific custom hardware thats; expensive, hard to test and assemble with a high BOM uses software to tie it all together. That really the idea its making a better wheel WAY cheaper and have run flat tires.

In general categories, there are environmental packaged systems for primarily outdoor use (both military and civilian/urban) which are high cost and then also...

So you could sell this to the afgan army who cant afford other systems.


ALSO doesn't it suck waking up at 3:00AM with an awesome idea only to find some one just created it within the last few years, AND got rich off of it? The storyof my life. Like I got a second place invention award in elementry school to the kid that invented the little plastic thing that attaches your cap to your car so dizzy drivers dont leave it on the pump or pump. Thats a patent that you can get rich off of just licensing it.
Ben at applied science youtube said "And like every good idea I seem to have , I look it up and someone just patented it"

[PlainName]

waking up at 3:00AM with an awesome idea only to find some one just created it within the last few years

Been there, done that. Had a brilliant idea (non-electronic), ran up prototypes (actually, cooked them), grabbed the appropriate really clever domain names, etc. Tried it out on friends who were mostly positive, then found out it'd already been an ongoing Thing for some while and I just wasn't in the right demographic to come across it before.

Also had a great idea to fix a problem a new way using better technology than the practice du jour but made the mistake of discussing the issues with a user/purveyor of the old way. Decided to patent it only to find the git had beat me to it, even though he didn't know anything about the technology (he basically patented every method I'd vaguely mentioned). Still got a patent out of it, though, which suitably impressed my folks (one thing patents are good for).

[westfw]

doesn't it suck waking up at 3:00AM with an awesome idea only to find some one just created it within the last few years, AND got rich off of it?

I invented web services.  "Gee, it ought to be possible for someone who can write HTML and has a fast internet connection to create web pages and host them for small companies that can't/don't.  (too bad my expertise is down in the "putting bytes into packets" area.  Oh well; somone will probably do it.)"  (in fact, I'm pretty sure people were already doing it at the time I thought of it.  I just hadn't noticed.)
(and again, an Idea like that is very far from being a viable product._

[mawyatt]

Lots of good stories of inventions that didn't pay off. Here's one that did. In the early 90s a couple colleagues approached about starting a company to develop GPS based electronic monitoring by means of the "ankle bracelet". Since I wasn't interested in managing things later on after the design phase I declined and said I might consider helping out as a consultant. They formed the company and asked about my consulting fee, I said a Porsche 911 would work (that's the red 911 993)!!

They had a brilliant product idea as well as a brilliant business model and staff. The puppet president was a former state governor with lots of political connections, and got all sorts of "free" publicity like on Good Morning American, and national exposure. The business model was to have no cost to the state/county but have the user pay the bracelet fee. A condition of "parole on the bracelet" was that the user could not miss a payment, or back to jail.

The initial product development cost was under $2M, and the company changed hands a few times eventually being acquired by a foreign company, then sold to 3M for ~$250M USD!! A few unethical and unscrupulous things transpired as the company changed hands and my former colleagues did not receive their fair share of the rewards IMO.

Anyway, as others have said, just having a great idea is only part of the success story, you'll need additional support and some luck. However, watch out for the VCs or "Angles", they'll take your idea, help you develop it and they'll profit from it, but leave little for all your hard work and creativity.

Best, 

[mawyatt]

Another interesting somewhat related success story. Back ~2000 DARPA funded a program called SUO SAS (Small Unit Operations Situation Awareness System) to develop a self forming ad-hoc network with various battlefield radios including aircraft, vehicles and solders. The general idea was to have a traveling wireless network that is self forming & healing with very sophisticated and secure routing protocols. This was so successful that a commercial spin off company was formed called MeshNetworks and a couple colleagues headed up the adaption of SUO SAS for commercial use. We got involved to implement a single Silicon chip for the entire radio, but that's another story.

In 2004 Motorola acquired MeshNetworks and all the $ investors made out, however the IP investors (former colleagues) did not

https://www.eetimes.com/motorola-buys-wireless-mesh-networking-startup/

Another good example of getting legal contacts and agreements in place before becoming involved with outside $ investors.

Best,

[ebastler]

This is implemented differently It uses 95% cheap off the shelf components/systems and combines them through software.
[...]
So even if someone already has the idea this is better because of production cost and taking hard, specific custom hardware thats; expensive, hard to test and assemble with a high BOM uses software to tie it all together. That really the idea its making a better wheel WAY cheaper

Then what you have is not an "invention", I'm afraid. Just taking someone else's existing concept and making it cheaper is called "cost-down", "knock-off", or "patent infringement", depending on the exact circumstances. 

And the big guys in this space do have patents, and I am sure they would be inclined to enforce them. And I'm afraid they would not even let you use the "shot spotter" name...

https://www.shotspotter.com

[RJSV]

I was thinking: Electron Microscopes now somewhat 'more' available, than 1960's, things like that. Certainly need partner(s), in bigger project.

However, in BIO-TECHNOLOGY, maybe uhnnh-uhh no!
They'd skimp on the 'clean-up', and
There We GO Sister : Covid III here we come !!!

[nigelwright7557]

I have designed loads of stuff over the years to sell.
I write the software, design hardware and build them all myself.
They tend to be small systems but that keeps costs/risks down.

You can quickly get out of your depth financially if your not careful.
Like making a thousand only to find you only sell 5.

I tend to ramp up slowly and see how it goes.

I have found I need to be flexible as some things sell good for a while then die off.
You have to move with the markets.

[EPAIII]

It seems that no one has said anything about the colors used to display these BB pages. So I will address that first.

I doubt that the BB software allows the readers to change colors. If anyone knows of a way, I would love to know about it. But one way you can change how the text is displayed by simply selecting it. I do this all the time to highlight the line of text after I have read it. That way, I can easily follow the next line on the screen and not either skip a line or read one line twice. This can be done for an entire message (post) or even for a full screen of text.

Another way would be to use the browser's settings. I use Firefox and in the menu found at the top right corner of the browser's window (well, just below the "X") there is a "Settings" choice which has a "Language and Appearance" section which allows the user to change display colors. Of course, this would change the colors for all internet pages, not just those in this BB.

As for inventing something, the costs of just inventing it can vary widely from a few cents to many millions of dollars. It all depends on the nature of the item being invented.

I have had a number of ideas that I considered to be good and worthy of being converted into a product. For many of them I have constructed prototypes. Those prototypes have probably ranged in cost from under a dollar to many hundreds of dollars. But building a prototype is only the first step in the invention process.

The next step you face is how you will market (sell) your invention. This is not a trivial decision. You can manufacture and sell it yourself. You can enlist others to do either or both of these. And your costs can vary widely depending on what choices you make.

Then, you must decide how you will protect your idea. Patents can cost $10,000 or more - most likely more. Legal advice is also expensive. Some think that they can just mail the idea to themselves in a sealed envelope which is delivered with a receipt. DON'T fall for that one. Any decent corporate attorney will tear that to pieces in short order. You are going to be well over $10,000 by the time you ONLY have the ammunition to sue anyone who violates your patent. You still have to pay the legal fees to defend it: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Or you can just hope that you can keep the details secret (a trade secret) while you rush into production and sales. If it is a really great idea, you will see others, from other countries (China) selling your device and probably holding a patent on it in their own country. Then your only option would be to defend your right to sell it. Or abandon that product and move on to another. It is almost impossible to live in an advanced country and fight the prices that a Chinese company can offer on a product unless you are able to both patent it world wide and defend those patents in courts, also world wide.

And sales holds it's own expenses. Advertising does not come cheap. I have worked for an ad company and $50,000 was a starting point. Yes, there are inexpensive ways to advertise on the internet. I have had phone conversations with them about products I was selling. My side of the conversation was "I will gladly pay a fixed amount for each sale you can generate." There response was, "CLICK". They want to be paid regardless of results.

Some companies will actually handle the manufacture and sale of your invention and pay you a percentage of sales. If you have a hot idea, this can work. But finding the right company can be difficult. And you do lose a lot of control. I have entered into agreements of this sort but have seen little income from them. Part of the reason for the poor sales, at least in my opinion, was some bad decisions on how the items were marketed. But I could not insist on those details.

I am not saying that you should not "invent" something. What I am saying is that it is not easy.

I can also attest to the FACT that I have made a LOT more money by writing about my ideas, thereby placing them in the public domain, than by selling them. Magazine articles can generate income. And you can also sell the parts (PCBs, etc.) for your idea that would be difficult for the average reader to make on their own.

[nuh]

I think the most important capital is time and knowledge, but a little money wouldn't be bad either

Good luck.