Possible to invent an electronic device without capital have any here done this?

[Beamin]

There are a lot of smart people here on this forum and I'm sure many of you are inventors. I won many invention awards as a school kid, but thats just for creativity and practicality. In 3rd grade I won with a "Drive by wire" where the steering wheel was connected to motors eliminating power steering racks pumps maintenance etc. I had a few more inventions I won over the years. So creativity runs in my blood and my family.

So right now I have two great ideas which if I owned a company or had a degree and engineering lab with lots of capital I would be on my way right now.

One invention finds lost pets specifically dogs and another is a simple idea where a group of soldiers would know in seconds where sniper fire or other fire is coming from using simple off the shelf technology that would cost a few hundred per unit or to be competitive with industry a couple thousand. I would like to give out the whole details but once its on the internet it becomes public info.

I'm sure some here  are inventors that had no resources and made it. I'll post some threads asking about things like I always do. FYI I have only been posting to my own posts because Im having a hard time seeing and dont want to flood the forum with a myriad of questions.

BTW is there a way to invert the color on this forum? My iphone I can change almost everything to "dark mode" where you get that old school computer look black background white/colored text. Makes  it 1000X easier to see. I know there is some wway in windows to invert but it inverts everything like video and pictures so then  I cant see those. Come on microsoft apple figured it out...

[jpanhalt]

Many of the well known names in electronics begin with very little.  I would say that was without capital, but of course, they did need some money.

Here are four names  that come to mind:
Bill Hewlett (Hewlett-Packard)
David Packard (Hewlett-Packard)
Michael Dell (Dell Computer)
Varian brothers (Varian Associates)

[bob91343]

Times have changed.  Nevertheless, inventions are welcome as long as they aren't just ideas.  Investors want to see something that works, not plans or ideas.  So you will probably have to build your idea and be able to demonstrate it.  And you have to prove you aren't infringing on some patent.

In other words, the technical part is not enough.  You have to have a convincing presentation and convey your ideas with authority and salesmanship.  Then you appeal to those whom you feel may have an interest and wherewithall to finance it.

[sandalcandal]

Money/capital is out there and available for "free" if you know where to look and are willing to work for it (and of course you should be willing to work it). Starting our own business we were able to obtain tens of thousands of dollars which was certainly more than enough for us to develop proof-of-concept hardware and start getting "traction" despite the high costs of power electronics and ESS hardware. This was purely through local grants, without the need to give up equity/ownership or take out any sort of loan; though there were requirements for reporting and transparency obviously. This was also fairly recently and in Australia. The general impression I get is that entrepreneurship money is much easier to come by in the US.

I'd suggest having a look around for any local small business or entrepreneurship grants. I see DoD awarding many grants to small US domestic businesses to produce proof-of-concepts (some of them quite questionable) so that might be a good idea to look into for your gunfire locator idea. They also will be able to give you plenty of good input with first hand experience using similar devices which should be invaluable in developing your product. Failing that, you might have to enter an arrangement where you give up ownership/equity i.e. get "investment" but you'll need to be properly and well prepared if you want to do that.

I'd also suggest doing some reading (or maybe watching videos) to get some foundational knowledge of entrepreneurship. This book is more targeted towards Australia but I think the general principles are good and apply anywhere; the advice provided is solid and inline with advice I've received from many experienced entrepreneurs and business leaders.
https://www.asx.com.au/documents/resources/EntrepreneursGuide_REV_5_16.pdf

For videos, some good sources are Y Combinator, and Slidebean. Though I would caveat these are very Silicon Valley in perspective so if you don't live in Silicon Valley YMMV. Also plenty of people sharing their small business entrepreneurship experience on YouTube if you're looking to run something more moderate in scale.

Also Shark Tank is a load of bullshit reality TV show. Don't think for a moment real world entrepreneurship is anything like what they represent there.

Times have changed.  Nevertheless, inventions are welcome as long as they aren't just ideas.  Investors want to see something that works, not plans or ideas.  So you will probably have to build your idea and be able to demonstrate it.  And you have to prove you aren't infringing on some patent.

In other words, the technical part is not enough.  You have to have a convincing presentation and convey your ideas with authority and salesmanship.  Then you appeal to those whom you feel may have an interest and wherewithall to finance it.

Certainly not enough to have a cool idea. You need to convince investors there is a market for your product (product-market fit), the amount you are asking for is commensurate to this market opportunity and most importantly that you (and your team) are capable of pulling through given the money. I don't think anything else has ever been the case but I wasn't alive and raising money 50 years ago

There are plenty of investors which have given talks published on Youtube describing what they are looking for in entrepreneurs in an effort to attract high quality investment opportunities.

Edit: I'll also add that though not yet "successful" we've managed to develop commercial prototypes and obtain patents (which might satisfy OP's idea of "inventing") and done so as per OP's question; without personally having any "capital".

[PaulAm]

You're in the US so you should look into what's available from DARPA; they have many small business programs to encourage innovation.

You can make yourself a small business by forming an LLC.  Costs around $50 and there are online law firms to supply everything you need.  Tax reporting is minimal until you start to make some money, but it gives you some cred.

Get yourself a company email address to go along with the LLC.  Again, there are cheap ways to do this.  Practically no one will respond to a gmail address.

The majority of small businesses fail but that doesn't mean people don't make money off them.  I was involved in two startups; one failed and the other transitioned into something different but I did OK off of both of them.  Watch venture capital though.  Their game is to put out enough funds so they can control things when it starts to make money.  Owners and founders are often pushed out at that point.

Patent issues can be a killer.  These days they are more to restrict innovation.

[fourfathom]

You can make yourself a small business by forming an LLC.  Costs around $50 and there are online law firms to supply everything you need.  Tax reporting is minimal until you start to make some money, but it gives you some cred.

But be aware that in most states there are annual filing fees for an LLC.  In California it's $800.  A few states have no filing fee.

If money is really tight I would develop the invention as far as possible, to demonstrate feasibility, and *then* form the initial business structure.  If you want to use other people's money then you will probably need to set up your "legal entity" first.

[mawyatt]

Lots of good advice here. One thing to consider is "if you aren't willing to invest $ and time in your idea, why would you expect others to invest!!". After you've developed your idea to a point of viable demonstration with your own $ and time and consider outside funding, be very careful with the arrangement. Almost always the creators are the ones left without significant gain, the $ folks end up with all the pie!! It's been advised before to have a lawyer on your side help with the initial paperwork when seeking outside funding.

There is mention of DARPA, be aware that usually when engaging in a USG agency that the "ownership" of the emerging technology has USG rights attached for limited use, usually direct military or "special" uses. They can even give your technology creations to others to produce for USG use, so be sure to study the regulations carefully before engaging with the USG for funding.

BTW if your idea involves sniper location by means of gunshot signature time of arrival and phase, this technique has been employed for a number of years to locate gunshots in cities and urban areas I believe.

Anyway, good luck with your adventures.

Best, 

[RJSV]

Ha! SPOT ON DISCUSSION !
   (I) took up inventing, on an assembly line job that had lots of 'blank brain' time. Next, I rented an OFFICE SUITE, in seedy downtown Hayward (pop. 210, 000).
  My patent attorney, well, he was a quiet drunk: they don't always show their colors, publicly. But he was pretty good lawyer, later: HE BEAT ME IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT.
  But it's important to take such matters, of the past, in a light hearted, even humorous manner.
Heck, think of the (little) stories I could tell. Extorted for Cash, by a 'crack-head', all while assembling and proof reading my own US PATENT APPLICATION.
(PLS SEE: US 20030172205 )

   One maybe clever thing I did, to get some document contents organized: Presented a flow-chart style drawing, instead of a table, that way a set of directional arrows can be included, for associating various sub-system components.
   In fact, there are some (mechanical) Patent work that deals only with associated 'components', and interconnection, with virtually no care for actual device. (Especially in nanotech world).
   At any rate, my special interest has a lot to do with the 'run-down' cities, doing business anyway, in spite of some 'indignities', (like crime risks).
NICE TOPIC, really.
Rick

[Just_another_Dave]

Money/capital is out there and available for "free" if you know where to look and are willing to work for it (and of course you should be willing to work it). Starting our own business we were able to obtain tens of thousands of dollars which was certainly more than enough for us to develop proof-of-concept hardware and start getting "traction" despite the high costs of power electronics and ESS hardware. This was purely through local grants, without the need to give up equity/ownership or take out any sort of loan; though there were requirements for reporting and transparency obviously. This was also fairly recently and in Australia. The general impression I get is that entrepreneurship money is much easier to come by in the US.

I'd suggest having a look around for any local small business or entrepreneurship grants. I see DoD awarding many grants to small US domestic businesses to produce proof-of-concepts (some of them quite questionable) so that might be a good idea to look into for your gunfire locator idea. They also will be able to give you plenty of good input with first hand experience using similar devices which should be invaluable in developing your product. Failing that, you might have to enter an arrangement where you give up ownership/equity i.e. get "investment" but you'll need to be properly and well prepared if you want to do that.

I'd also suggest doing some reading (or maybe watching videos) to get some foundational knowledge of entrepreneurship. This book is more targeted towards Australia but I think the general principles are good and apply anywhere; the advice provided is solid and inline with advice I've received from many experienced entrepreneurs and business leaders.
https://www.asx.com.au/documents/resources/EntrepreneursGuide_REV_5_16.pdf

For videos, some good sources are Y Combinator, and Slidebean. Though I would caveat these are very Silicon Valley in perspective so if you don't live in Silicon Valley YMMV. Also plenty of people sharing their small business entrepreneurship experience on YouTube if you're looking to run something more moderate in scale.

Also Shark Tank is a load of bullshit reality TV show. Don't think for a moment real world entrepreneurship is anything like what they represent there.

Times have changed.  Nevertheless, inventions are welcome as long as they aren't just ideas.  Investors want to see something that works, not plans or ideas.  So you will probably have to build your idea and be able to demonstrate it.  And you have to prove you aren't infringing on some patent.

In other words, the technical part is not enough.  You have to have a convincing presentation and convey your ideas with authority and salesmanship.  Then you appeal to those whom you feel may have an interest and wherewithall to finance it.

Certainly not enough to have a cool idea. You need to convince investors there is a market for your product (product-market fit), the amount you are asking for is commensurate to this market opportunity and most importantly that you (and your team) are capable of pulling through given the money. I don't think anything else has ever been the case but I wasn't alive and raising money 50 years ago

There are plenty of investors which have given talks published on Youtube describing what they are looking for in entrepreneurs in an effort to attract high quality investment opportunities.

Edit: I'll also add that though not yet "successful" we've managed to develop commercial prototypes and obtain patents (which might satisfy OP's idea of "inventing") and done so as per OP's question; without personally having any "capital".

This is a really good recommendation. Most entrepreneurs I know which have been successful started with small amounts of capital provided by grants or prizes.
Learning to make a prototype with little money is also part of the process. If your project requires millions of euros just to be started, it will be nearly impossible to achieve unless you already have that money

[MadScientist]

As a serial startup , hardware is much more difficult then  software as the transition from prototype curio to any sort of volume requires considerable capital and VCs typically don’t like sinking money into something with large upfront commitments and potentially delayed income  streams.

Software has a much better chance as trial markets can be acquired and product interest stimulated

It can be very easy to raise about €50K , I did it locally through development grants. But this is a drop in the ocean for any sort of hardware development. The issue is getting the next €250k that’s the very difficult phase ( the VCs call it the funding valley of death )

Don’t get advise from people in the initial funding phase , look at those successfully climbing out of the valley of death phase.

Note references to entrepreneurs like Dave Packard etc are entirely mis guided, these were , like Zuckerberg, simply in the right place at the right time. If your that lucky , fine. But for every Dave Packard , there are thousands of unknowns that didn’t make it.

My advice , funnel the money into building and attracting a team , don’t worry about developing hardware. VCs invest in people not things.

[james_s]

Ideas are a dime a dozen, if you want to get anywhere you'll have to come up with a prototype or at the very least a proof of concept.

[jpanhalt]

Ideas are a dime a dozen, if you want to get anywhere you'll have to come up with a prototype or at the very least a proof of concept.

Yes and mostly no.  The real money is made in the market (i.e., sales).  Very few patent owners per se made it compared to great and ruthless sales, like Dell, Musk, Bezos, and Gates.

[Bud]

Also Shark Tank is a load of bullshit reality TV show.

It was better in earier days. Uber and AirBNB were on Sharks Tank when nobody knew them. I remember them 'cause at the time i could not make sense of their company names in relation to their businesses.

But these days yes, those "sharks" will not even put their glasses on if you already not making half a million dollars in sales.

[james_s]

Yes and mostly no.  The real money is made in the market (i.e., sales).  Very few patent owners per se made it compared to great and ruthless sales, like Dell, Musk, Bezos, and Gates.

Well yes, but the discussion was around inventing a device, not coming up with a way to make a lot of money, in which case yes, you're right, inventing a device is usually not the easiest way to make a lot of money.

[sandalcandal]

Also Shark Tank is a load of bullshit reality TV show.

It was better in earier days. Uber and AirBNB were on Sharks Tank when nobody knew them. I remember them 'cause at the time i could not make sense of their company names in relation to their businesses.

But these days yes, those "sharks" will not even put their glasses on if you already not making half a million dollars in sales.

I don't remember anything on either Uber or AirBnB being on Shark Tank and a quick search seems to confirm that neither them ever were. There are plenty of other companies which have appeared and have later been successful though (obviously most successful ones didn't do deals with the Sharks). The many of the offers given (particularly earlier on) are completely non-sensical e.g. equity for money worth less than the assets of the company, just get a business loan instead?

Early Shark Tank was even worse, I remember having discussion with other entrepreneurs years ago and hearing that they take 5% equity or 2% royalties just to appear on the show. So of course any company which knows they're worth a damn would never bother to appear. They've since changed that policy a while ago however https://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/mark-cuban-forces-shark-tank-to-remove-equity-clause.html

VCs invest in people not things.

This 100%. Though if you have no plan and no prototype, they're likely to judge you poorly as people unless you are already well known to them (unlikely for a new entrepreneur).

Yes and mostly no.  The real money is made in the market (i.e., sales).  Very few patent owners per se made it compared to great and ruthless sales, like Dell, Musk, Bezos, and Gates.

Well yes, but the discussion was around inventing a device, not coming up with a way to make a lot of money, in which case yes, you're right, inventing a device is usually not the easiest way to make a lot of money.

Patents are tickets to sue (or threaten to sue) people. Patents have near zero value in and of themselves. You make money providing goods and services to people, not by sitting on patents.

[james_s]

Patents are tickets to sue (or threaten to sue) people. Patents have near zero value in and of themselves. You make money providing goods and services to people, not by sitting on patents.

No argument from me there. I think patents are mostly worthless, especially for an individual inventor. I have never suggested anyone go out and patent something.

[sandalcandal]

Patents are tickets to sue (or threaten to sue) people. Patents have near zero value in and of themselves. You make money providing goods and services to people, not by sitting on patents.

No argument from me there. I think patents are mostly worthless, especially for an individual inventor. I have never suggested anyone go out and patent something.

Yes, not disagreeing with you either. Just elaborating further on why: having "ideas" is less important than actually being able to deliver on a desirable product/service.

[RJSV]

Oh, also I wanted to say, about patent protection:
  With (my) computer training system, I did not want to face a situation, where someone else got wind of my idea (s), put forth their own application, after which I could face a real, actual shut-down, of my own work !
A usually distant possibility, but too wild to think of, my 'precious' work didn't come easy...
   Certainly, at the scale I was working, the patent 'Disclosure' temporary program offered no help. The application itself was jumbo sized, and took over two years to assemble.
   I also had a great invention / consumer product idea, that, by opposite, involved very little innovation:
   A POCKET SHOWER WITH TANKS.
That little hand-held shower device had a vacume suction water puller system, (for the dirty), and even included LITHIUM battery water warmer shower head.
ALL for use on the train, bus whatever... (Actually that's not too appetizing lol, Rick).

[Berni]

Well you can see one example of a small company having a go at a huge undertaking of becoming the next optical HD video format that Bluray ultimately became:


They really did try hard to make it happen, and even got some early hardware out the door(tho mostly in the form of a special modified off the shelf DVD drive). But as you can imagine this is not easy to pull off, especially when the big guns that fight these format wars come in. As a result they flopped so badly that they even forget to mention them in articles about the failed HD video disc formats that lost the war.

[Beamin]

Money/capital is out there and available for "free" if you know where to look and are willing to work for it (and of course you should be willing to work it). Starting our own business we were able to obtain tens of thousands of dollars which was certainly more than enough for us to develop proof-of-concept hardware and start getting "traction" despite the high costs of power electronics and ESS hardware. This was purely through local grants, without the need to give up equity/ownership or take out any sort of loan; though there were requirements for reporting and transparency obviously. This was also fairly recently and in Australia. The general impression I get is that entrepreneurship money is much easier to come by in the US.

I'd suggest having a look around for any local small business or entrepreneurship grants. I see DoD awarding many grants to small US domestic businesses to produce proof-of-concepts (some of them quite questionable) so that might be a good idea to look into for your gunfire locator idea. They also will be able to give you plenty of good input with first hand experience using similar devices which should be invaluable in developing your product. Failing that, you might have to enter an arrangement where you give up ownership/equity i.e. get "investment" but you'll need to be properly and well prepared if you want to do that.

I'd also suggest doing some reading (or maybe watching videos) to get some foundational knowledge of entrepreneurship. This book is more targeted towards Australia but I think the general principles are good and apply anywhere; the advice provided is solid and inline with advice I've received from many experienced entrepreneurs and business leaders.
https://www.asx.com.au/documents/resources/EntrepreneursGuide_REV_5_16.pdf

For videos, some good sources are Y Combinator, and Slidebean. Though I would caveat these are very Silicon Valley in perspective so if you don't live in Silicon Valley YMMV. Also plenty of people sharing their small business entrepreneurship experience on YouTube if you're looking to run something more moderate in scale.

Also Shark Tank is a load of bullshit reality TV show. Don't think for a moment real world entrepreneurship is anything like what they represent there.

Times have changed.  Nevertheless, inventions are welcome as long as they aren't just ideas.  Investors want to see something that works, not plans or ideas.  So you will probably have to build your idea and be able to demonstrate it.  And you have to prove you aren't infringing on some patent.

In other words, the technical part is not enough.  You have to have a convincing presentation and convey your ideas with authority and salesmanship.  Then you appeal to those whom you feel may have an interest and wherewithall to finance it.

Certainly not enough to have a cool idea. You need to convince investors there is a market for your product (product-market fit), the amount you are asking for is commensurate to this market opportunity and most importantly that you (and your team) are capable of pulling through given the money. I don't think anything else has ever been the case but I wasn't alive and raising money 50 years ago

There are plenty of investors which have given talks published on Youtube describing what they are looking for in entrepreneurs in an effort to attract high quality investment opportunities.

Edit: I'll also add that though not yet "successful" we've managed to develop commercial prototypes and obtain patents (which might satisfy OP's idea of "inventing") and done so as per OP's question; without personally having any "capital".

I used to own my own business and it was so hard to get investors and capital to buy cars, we need 10's of thousands a week.

My "Shot spotter" would also work in cities with devices on telephone poles to alert police. I  really want to make this before some one else realizes how easily It could be done.

[Beamin]

Also Shark Tank is a load of bullshit reality TV show.

It was better in earier days. Uber and AirBNB were on Sharks Tank when nobody knew them. I remember them 'cause at the time i could not make sense of their company names in relation to their businesses.

But these days yes, those "sharks" will not even put their glasses on if you already not making half a million dollars in sales.

I don't remember anything on either Uber or AirBnB being on Shark Tank and a quick search seems to confirm that neither them ever were. There are plenty of other companies which have appeared and have later been successful though (obviously most successful ones didn't do deals with the Sharks). The many of the offers given (particularly earlier on) are completely non-sensical e.g. equity for money worth less than the assets of the company, just get a business loan instead?

Early Shark Tank was even worse, I remember having discussion with other entrepreneurs years ago and hearing that they take 5% equity or 2% royalties just to appear on the show. So of course any company which knows they're worth a damn would never bother to appear. They've since changed that policy a while ago however https://www.inc.com/will-yakowicz/mark-cuban-forces-shark-tank-to-remove-equity-clause.html

VCs invest in people not things.

This 100%. Though if you have no plan and no prototype, they're likely to judge you poorly as people unless you are already well known to them (unlikely for a new entrepreneur).

Yes and mostly no.  The real money is made in the market (i.e., sales).  Very few patent owners per se made it compared to great and ruthless sales, like Dell, Musk, Bezos, and Gates.

Well yes, but the discussion was around inventing a device, not coming up with a way to make a lot of money, in which case yes, you're right, inventing a device is usually not the easiest way to make a lot of money.

Patents are tickets to sue (or threaten to sue) people. Patents have near zero value in and of themselves. You make money providing goods and services to people, not by sitting on patents.

My father made a shitload off patents on computer devices in the late 70's early 80's but he sucked at business, one of his devices is used around the world to this day and he sold it with no royalties. idiot. I rule at sales have been for twenty years often the top three where I worked I know how to BS people and the psychology...

[Beamin]

I need to pull an elizabeth holmes less the fraud.

[PlainName]

My "Shot spotter" would also work in cities with devices on telephone poles to alert police. I  really want to make this before some one else realizes how easily It could be done

This is already being done, isn't it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunfire_locator

[nigelwright7557]

If you have little capital then expand slowly.
That way you get money coming in to spend.

I have designed about 20 hardware/software systems and they all worked well that way.

[Buriedcode]

I have no advice that is better than any of the replies here, so I'll spare you my two cents.  Whilst ideas are the start, and can often fail to bear fruit, but need to be tried, I'll just drop this link:

https://www.riskology.co/idea-guy/

I have known several people who have their pet ideas for invetions/patents, and the ones who are secretive about it - even one who remortgaged his house to keep the rights to his ideas - have never made any progress.  You can't do everything alone.