Author Topic: Post a picture of your Fuse Box  (Read 24091 times)

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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2022, 10:20:17 am »
Dave & deadlylover: your fuse boxes look positively futuristic.  I mean, you even have a box.

1920/1930's Californian bungalow in Sydney, no solar and only single phase:



I think the upper board is screwed to the wall, not hinged.  Maybe the service fuse is behind that?  At least it looks like there is no asbestos (if you ignore the roof above).

Lower Hager box with DIN-rail inside was added by sparkies to modernise the place some 20 or more years ago when I was very young.

Wasp at the top right is to keep guard, make sure no one steals our electricity.



Aww it's got babies  ^-^



Meter is "properly of St George County Council".  Sadly that later became Ausgrid ("bring back the PMG!").  I love these mechanical types, it'll be a super sad day when it gets replaced by a Borg-personality smart meter that has no spinny bits.



From left to right: 
  • Main switch
  • K = 40 amp supply for electric pottery kiln out back
  • 32A kitchen oven.  Not protected by the RCD, something I noted when last repairing the oven.
  • RCD (in theory covers everything to the right of it)
  • A single 20A breaker that supplies all of the pottery studio building out back (LOL I expected much more, but I don't think it has a sub panel ???)
  • Various house internal breakers
The hager surface mount box's lid holds on through the hopes and wishes of one screw at the top right that doesn't do anything.  Inside:



(Don't blame me for any of this, I've never touched this panel beyond flipping breakers.  Not my house, not a sparky)

It looks like they chose to use both of the brass blocks at the top for neutrals (the one on the right is probably post-RCD), ...but then twist the earths together and just tape them?  Huh?  Lol.  Maybe that's fine, I don't know, but I would have preferred at least some sort of connector to keep force on the copper strand mating surfaces (I believe this avoids corrosion creeping in as easily?).

If you squint you can see bars spanning the bottoms of the breakers.  I presume these are the actives.  I'm sure the rust is there to make it marginally safer against accidental contact  >:D  EDIT: Sadly no it's copper

That's it, unless you want to see some haphazard connector boxes strewn in the attic above the plaster ceiling.   EDIT: Heater is gas, stove is gas, bigger kilns are LPG bottle.

Hope your fire insurance is up to date, that is rough...

Exposed bus bars is a big no-no, they should have a plastic cover over them, which would have been supplied with the box.





Ah sorry, here is a better angle.  On second look it turns out to be exposed copper bars anyway  :'(  not steel

Yeah. Always copper.

Here's one I plucked out of a box in a factory the other day. Notice the three phases and the offset because of the add-on switch next to each breaker to alert the folks in the control room. Every breaker is 3 & 1/2 din.

(Attachment Link)

Not always copper these days. Quite common to have copper coated steel or aluminium bus bars in the cheaper stuff.
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2022, 10:22:26 am »


Not always copper these days. Quite common to have copper coated steel or aluminium bus bars in the cheaper stuff.

A nightmare to figure out the effective mm2.
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Offline Miyuki

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #27 on: October 07, 2022, 10:24:45 am »
It is without cover because I needed a "temporary" 3-phase socket (like for past two years  ::) )
 

Offline Whales

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #28 on: October 07, 2022, 10:37:34 am »
Hope your fire insurance is up to date, that is rough...

Hmm.  I was thinking there are some potential electrocution hazards here (surface mount box lid comes off too easily, not all of house is on RCDs) but I'm not sure about fire risks.    Perhaps if a conductor gets loose in the box it has has a higher probability of the 2nd surface it touches being uninsulated?  Or something else?

Quote
Exposed bus bars is a big no-no, they should have a plastic cover over them, which would have been supplied with the box.

Yeah I was surprised by this too, every one I've ever seen has come with at least some plastic.  Maybe they bulk ordered it separately to the boxes.  I don't think it would have become frail and decayed off neatly.

Offline Whales

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #29 on: October 07, 2022, 10:40:39 am »
It is without cover because I needed a "temporary" 3-phase socket (like for past two years  ::) )

The contrast between the rough walls and the european styled breaker bodies is beautiful Miyuki :)  Hope the house is comfy.   Reminds me of the wiring I saw in Greece last I was there, some places were mudbrick (apparently it survives earthquakes better than some alternatives).

I can't quite tell, but there seem to be a few different colour wires screwed into the single bar at the top.  Neutral and earth bonded arbitrarily there?  Not just from the loose wires going to your plugs out the front, from the wall buried conduit too.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 10:46:57 am by Whales »
 

Offline Miyuki

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #30 on: October 07, 2022, 11:04:47 am »
It is without cover because I needed a "temporary" 3-phase socket (like for past two years  ::) )

The contrast between the rough walls and the european styled breaker bodies is beautiful Miyuki :)  Hope the house is comfy.   Reminds me of the wiring I saw in Greece last I was there, some places were mudbrick (apparently it survives earthquakes better than some alternatives).

I can't quite tell, but there seem to be a few different colour wires screwed into the single bar at the top.  Neutral and earth bonded arbitrarily there?  Not just from the loose wires going to your plugs out the front, from the wall buried conduit too.
Yea good old house, a combination of mudbricks and stones. It is from times when people have no idea what electricity is.

Only that one big cable, that hangs from it, it is for the socket, and in the socket is connected 4 wire cable to a huge air compressor for air tools, so it uses a neutral bar for both green and blue wires as they are also connected together at another end.
 

Offline woody

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2022, 11:15:52 am »
And here I was, thinking I needed to clean up my fusebox.

After seeing what it could have been, methinks I'm OK for now  ;D
 

Online Ice-Tea

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #32 on: October 07, 2022, 11:22:26 am »
I redid my fusebox earlier this year. When we build the house over 10 years ago I took the box from the scrap heap, together with a few of the breakers. It was actually "good enough" but earlier this year I had to add a bunch of stuff and decided to clean up while I was at it.

Before:



After:



I actually have secundary boxes in the attic and garden house.


« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 11:24:07 am by Ice-Tea »
 
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Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #33 on: October 07, 2022, 12:04:05 pm »


Not always copper these days. Quite common to have copper coated steel or aluminium bus bars in the cheaper stuff.

A nightmare to figure out the effective mm2.

Not really an issue for the installer, you go to the rating of the main isolation switch. It's more an issue for the manufacturer, hopefully one they take seriously!



Hope your fire insurance is up to date, that is rough...

Hmm.  I was thinking there are some potential electrocution hazards here (surface mount box lid comes off too easily, not all of house is on RCDs) but I'm not sure about fire risks.    Perhaps if a conductor gets loose in the box it has has a higher probability of the 2nd surface it touches being uninsulated?  Or something else?

Yep, there's that, though quite often the argument goes along the lines of "if you don't know what you're doing, you shouldn't be messing around with that stuff".

From my pov, the fire risk comes from the increased oxidation causing bad contacts, which is more likely from having no backplate and no bus bar covers, though I guess humidity and rain might be less of an issue in many parts of Australia when compared to the UK?

The foxing on the labels does imply some level of damp exposure though.
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Offline Circlotron

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #34 on: October 07, 2022, 12:45:06 pm »
Occasionally you see pics like the following. Will be interesting to see if someone from a country that doesn't appear to have standards and regulations posts what their fuse box looks like.

 
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Offline capt bullshot

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #35 on: October 07, 2022, 12:58:03 pm »
This is outdoor:
I'm not supposed to open that, except for emergency access. Anyway, there's nothing inside but three NH-Fuses.



Basically it looks inside similar to this:


This is indoor:
Two meters (one for the solar panels, the other one for import / export metering), a bunch of breakers and some other stuff. There's two more boxes like this (without the meters, just breakers) in the house, for local distribution purpose.



Note the three phase breaker bottom left, this is a special delayed one. All the breakers and the outside fuse box build a cascade of breakers/fuses that one the weakest will break in case of a fault. One can turn off all power to that panel using the bottom left breaker, handy if the meters need to be replaced or one wants to do some work at the breakers.

This is a rather modern one, one can find really ugly looking ones, especially with no breaker/fuse to de-energize the panel. One doesn't have to upgrade the panel to the latest standards as long as there aren't significant rebuilds done - so the old ones tend to exist for long time.

(excuse the rotated image, but I can't be bothered fighting EXIF)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 01:03:56 pm by capt bullshot »
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Online Monkeh

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #36 on: October 07, 2022, 03:30:10 pm »
Our minimalist KISS installation with RCBOs. Still a couple of ways free so we could theoretically add an EV charger, Solar PV, or heat pump (pick two!)...

Neat enough. I'll overlook the Niglon rebrands, but warn that the grounding for the box is likely less than sturdy.
 

Offline Black Phoenix

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #37 on: October 07, 2022, 06:15:31 pm »
Unfortunately I'm not back in my home in Portugal to show how the 3phase instalation of my Grandparent's house (from 1950s) that still today uses rewirable ceramic fuses, old breakers, Romex type Neutral/Hot wire outside of the wall (with wire nail holders nailed in the walls) with only earth plugs in the kitchen.

Ahh and analogue Meter (that unfortunately is going to be changed to a smart one next month).

And no, no steel wire or coat hanger wire was used in the ceramic fuse. I still have 2 reels of calibrated copper wire (don't ask for the Amps, can't remember) for rewiring those fuses in case of then burning.
 
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Offline MrMobodies

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2022, 06:50:03 pm »
Occasionally you see pics like the following. Will be interesting to see if someone from a country that doesn't appear to have standards and regulations posts what their fuse box looks like.

Is that India?

I'd like to hear Photonicinduction's choice of fuse box.
I'd think he'd be one of the best to ask.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 06:52:15 pm by MrMobodies »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #39 on: October 07, 2022, 07:58:04 pm »
Our minimalist KISS installation with RCBOs. Still a couple of ways free so we could theoretically add an EV charger, Solar PV, or heat pump (pick two!)...

Neat enough. I'll overlook the Niglon rebrands, but warn that the grounding for the box is likely less than sturdy.

Yes, the box is grounded by a tapped screw that is then clamped into one of the ways of the PE bar. There is no separate ground wire to the front panel though, just the mechaical fixing screws. Not ideal.
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Online Monkeh

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #40 on: October 07, 2022, 07:59:14 pm »
Our minimalist KISS installation with RCBOs. Still a couple of ways free so we could theoretically add an EV charger, Solar PV, or heat pump (pick two!)...

Neat enough. I'll overlook the Niglon rebrands, but warn that the grounding for the box is likely less than sturdy.

Yes, the box is grounded by a tapped screw that is then clamped into one of the ways of the PE bar. There is no separate ground wire to the front panel though, just the mechaical fixing screws.

That screw makes a rather poor contact, speaking from experience.
 
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Offline Gyro

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2022, 08:09:47 pm »
Probably grounds (err) for a seperate lock nut and toothed washer.


EDIT: Axiom are part of CED. Are Axiom a rebadge of Niglon or are Niglon rebadging Axiom (they look more like a distibutor, maybe they both are)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2022, 08:23:24 pm by Gyro »
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2022, 08:27:26 pm »
Quote
Exposed bus bars is a big no-no, they should have a plastic cover over them, which would have been supplied with the box
Thats a fairly new idea,can show you plenty of older boards were once the front covers off all the shiney bits are on view,although some manufacturers tried to make it so the cover wouldn't come off unless the main switch was off.
Quote
the fire risk comes from the increased oxidation causing bad contacts, which is more likely from having no backplate and no bus bar covers
Large 3 phase busbar chambers seem to work fine without covered bus bars,as do the bars found in large switch panels,the biggest cause of a bad  connection is a miss aligns  device or someone cant be arsed to get there torque screwdriver/spanner out the van
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2022, 08:51:59 pm »
Probably grounds (err) for a seperate lock nut and toothed washer.


EDIT: Axiom are part of CED. Are Axiom a rebadge of Niglon or are Niglon rebadging Axiom (they look more like a distibutor, maybe they both are)

Niglon's the OEM, or at least the intermediary. Been around for years, fairly recognisable - there's probably 20 names they get sold under in the UK.
 
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Online tom66

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #44 on: October 07, 2022, 09:06:55 pm »
Just recently installed a second CU (consumer unit) to support the EVSE, outbuilding power and eventually an upgraded workshop and solar.

(This was done mostly by a qualified electrician friend of mine, as is required in the UK.  I did the drilling though; 1930's brick tried its best to beat my 1500W SDS into submission.)
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2022, 09:17:09 pm »
Quote
Exposed bus bars is a big no-no, they should have a plastic cover over them, which would have been supplied with the box
Thats a fairly new idea,can show you plenty of older boards were once the front covers off all the shiney bits are on view,although some manufacturers tried to make it so the cover wouldn't come off unless the main switch was off.
Quote
the fire risk comes from the increased oxidation causing bad contacts, which is more likely from having no backplate and no bus bar covers
Large 3 phase busbar chambers seem to work fine without covered bus bars,as do the bars found in large switch panels,the biggest cause of a bad  connection is a miss aligns  device or someone cant be arsed to get there torque screwdriver/spanner out the van

Those must be really old installations. The ones I work on date back to the 1970s and though you might get exposed bars from the isolator to the bus bars, the bars themselves are not exposed, though the individual tabs for the MCBs may well be. Long live the Merlin Isobar design! (now sadly subsumed into the Schneider shibboleth)

I rarely use a torque screwdriver, though on something that big I would, and do, use my small torque wrench. I put it to you that installations of that size either are well enough situated that they don't get damp, or they self-Darwinise pretty damn quickly.
Bah, if only I'd been on the teardown of a site we built a year or so back; we built several 3-phase boards into Sarel cabinets, out in the open, during pretty bad weather (snow and ice), for the purpose of supplying temporary cabins for a vaccine centre. I have not heard of any trouble with nuisance tripping etc. The site is gone now, in the last month, but I was at another site. Would have been interesting to see the effects, if any, of the relatively exposed conditions.
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Online themadhippy

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2022, 09:50:26 pm »
Quote
Those must be really old installations.
nope,thers even a piccy of such a beast by wylex  earlier in this thread, they were still being installed upto the 90's and  still plenty of them  in use
Quote
I rarely use a torque screwdriver,
In the uk " electrical equipment shall be installed in accordance with the instructions provided by the manufacturer of the equipment" so if they give a torque spec your expected to follow it.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2022, 10:11:46 pm »
This is mine, which is fairly typical of a modern UK setup, which is usually either dual RCDs, with circuits divided between them, or RCBOs.
 The actual box is a 25+ year old dual RCD board, but I recently updated it to RCBOs ( the MCB on the left feeds a secondary board in the workshop, so no RCD as it has RCBOs at the far end)
If it was a brand new install, it would need to be an all-metal box ( this is metal with a plastic front), and have a surge protector, which latest regs have made mandatory in most cases.

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Offline Gyro

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2022, 10:36:34 pm »
... the MCB on the left feeds a secondary board in the workshop, so no RCD as it has RCBOs at the far end...

As long as the output cable has suplimentary protection, ie. armoured cable, with grounded armouring - as you have done.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Post a picture of your Fuse Box
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2022, 10:58:38 pm »
... the MCB on the left feeds a secondary board in the workshop, so no RCD as it has RCBOs at the far end...

As long as the output cable has suplimentary protection, ie. armoured cable, with grounded armouring - as you have done.
Yes, it's armoured.
If it did have an RCD at the feed end, it should be one with a higher trip current than at the far end to ensure selectivity, i.e. the RCD closest to the load should trip first. Not sure if this is a requirement or a recommendation, as it's mostly an inconvenience thing rather than safety
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