Post a picture of your Fuse Box

[Black Phoenix]

Shed fusebox at bottom of garden via buried armoured cable (see it coming up from bottom left). This is a plastic fusebox which I believe is outlawed here in UK now.

Any reason why is outlawed? I ask that because plastic consumer units are used in the rest of the EU without any problems. Same in China, Japan, Germany, etc.

Although in most Instalations in the UK I follow its always a metal box that it's used.

Because of the grounding of the armored cables?

[Whales]

Maybe it's an explosion containment thing?

[Ed.Kloonk]

Maybe it's an explosion containment thing?

One thing that has happened since the single pole RCDs showed up is the ones with rating >16 amps can get hot. And of course there's no provision for air flow, rather they get cascaded. Multiple light dimmers on the same light switch bank, this happens to. It says in the manual not to do it but the info gets chucked with rest of the packaging.

[themadhippy]

Any reason why is outlawed?

not outlawed,just against the current regs that are not statutory.As for why?well were british and like to be different old chap,plus plastic boards melt and burn when a loose connection in the fuse board  causes it to catch fire.

[tom66]

Shed fusebox at bottom of garden via buried armoured cable (see it coming up from bottom left). This is a plastic fusebox which I believe is outlawed here in UK now.

Any reason why is outlawed? I ask that because plastic consumer units are used in the rest of the EU without any problems. Same in China, Japan, Germany, etc.

Although in most Instalations in the UK I follow its always a metal box that it's used.

Because of the grounding of the armored cables?

Just in case of an overheating conductor or loose connection, it adds fuel to the fire.  Metal CU's keep any such overheating contained for longer, possibly long enough for the MCB/RCBO to trip and isolate the fault.

They aren't too expensive, though presumably cost more than plastic - I got a 7-way one (excl breakers) for £30 for the recent install for the EVSE.

[Gyro]

Yes, basically fire. Too many house fires caused by loose and overheated connections that are not contained by the plastic enclosure. Metal enclosures have been mandatory for new installations since the UK 17th ed wiring regs. There are restrictions on fire exit paths through the top and rear of the enclosure, fire retardant gromets and glands, fire retardent caulk sealing etc.* Many (most?) older UK homes have the mains feed coming in under the stairs, so have the consumer unit in the same place - directly under a wooden primary escape route! There are many videos on the subject. High drain items like high kW electric showers and EV chargers only make the problem worse.

Personally I think 'cage clamp' terminals are the primary culprit, particularly on the incomming supply tails into the consumer unit. Even when tightened to the correct torque, the thick 25mm² stranded tails will easly work loose under movement and thermal cycling. If people don't use the appropriate torque settins and torque screwdrivers, the problem is even worse. I think these are a definite step backwards compared to the old twin screw terminations, where the screws bear directly on the conductors and have 100% redundancy.

When we had our smart meter fitted a few years back, I purchased a Wylex double pole isolator switch (cage clamp) ready to ask the installer to fit in line between the Meter and consumer unit (to allow safe future replacement / maintenance). The installer took one look at it, went out to his van and returned with a double screw terminated isolator. He said there were too many problems with the tails loosening or even falling out with the cage clamp types. With a pair of screws tightened down hard on the cable in a constrained diameter terminal, there's no way that the cable will work its way out past the depressions over time.

I have similar concerns about the new-fangled 'Wiska' type maintenance free junction boxes, where the solid core wire is simply pushed under the sharp edge of a leaf spring (or lever action). Put a cable tie through the tags on the plastic box and stuff it under the floor and it becomes maintenance free. Has nobody else seen problems caused by push-in terminations inside flourescent light fittings. Maybe the metalurgy has improved, but let's see if the springs relax and start causing fires in 20-30 years time. They are effectively point contact connections.


P.S. * I meant to comment on this on tom66's second CU in reply #44. That PE wire coming out of the top of the second CU really ought to have a flame retardent gromet (or at least a bit of intumescent caulk around it). The hole is too big to pass regs. Seeing some of the other installs drove it clean out of my head. 

[tom66]

P.S. * I meant to comment on this on tom66's second CU in reply #44. That PE wire coming out of the top of the second CU really ought to have a flame retardent gromet (or at least a bit of intumescent caulk around it). The hole is too big to pass regs. Seeing some of the other installs drove it clean out of my head. 

Yup, it's on my list.  Just forgot to order it for the day.

[themadhippy]

Metal enclosures have been mandatory for new installations since the UK 17th ed wiring regs.

And yet right next to our sealed metal box the network provider can chuck in there plastic box to hold there isolator.

I think these are a definite step backwards compared to the old twin screw terminations,

yea but 2 screws take longer than 1 to tighten,so productivity goes down and we aint earning our lord and masters as many shekels

I have similar concerns about the new-fangled 'Wiska' type maintenance free junction boxes, where the solid core wire is simply pushed under the sharp edge of a leaf spring (or lever action). Put a cable tie through the tags on the plastic box and stuff it under the floor and it becomes maintenance free.

Had the same concern for a few years when they first came out,but having now used them for a good few years i'd rate them as more reliable than the old "landmine"style junction box,and they certainly grab the wire better than other push terminals.plus the wiska box incorporates a decentish cable grip,something the old round jb's  lack

[Gyro]

Yes, one rule for us mortals, the DNOs don't have to comply with IEE wiring regs, they have they are a law unto themselves.

Had the same concern for a few years when they first came out,but having now used them for a good few years i'd rate them as more reliable than the old "landmine"style junction box,and they certainly grab the wire better than other push terminals.plus the wiska box incorporates a decentish cable grip,something the old round jb's  lack

Yes, lack of any form of cable grip was a definite downside of the old JBs (but maybe a testament to how well the terminals gripped). The new ones are neater too and able to fit through holes (much harder to strip back the bare PEs and twist them together outside the box though ). I guess the decades will tell.

 

[AVGresponding]

Yes, basically fire. Too many house fires caused by loose and overheated connections that are not contained by the plastic enclosure. Metal enclosures have been mandatory for new installations since the UK 17th ed wiring regs. There are restrictions on fire exit paths through the top and rear of the enclosure, fire retardant gromets and glands, fire retardent caulk sealing etc.* Many (most?) older UK homes have the mains feed coming in under the stairs, so have the consumer unit in the same place - directly under a wooden primary escape route! There are many videos on the subject. High drain items like high kW electric showers and EV chargers only make the problem worse.

Personally I think 'cage clamp' terminals are the primary culprit, particularly on the incomming supply tails into the consumer unit. Even when tightened to the correct torque, the thick 25mm² stranded tails will easly work loose under movement and thermal cycling. If people don't use the appropriate torque settins and torque screwdrivers, the problem is even worse. I think these are a definite step backwards compared to the old twin screw terminations, where the screws bear directly on the conductors and have 100% redundancy.

I think the reluctance to use twin direct screw terminations relates to the potential to shear through the conductor when overtightened, though I'll grant you this is less likely on something as big as tails. I've found the best way to get a good cage/rising clamp connection is to waggle the cable once the screw is tight, then retighten the screw. Do this two or three times and you should be golden; it's because the individual strands spread out to fill the width of the clamp.

[Gyro]

Yes, that could be part of it, although modern consumer units still have single screw connections of cores on the Neutral and CPC bars (ok, the Neutrals are ferruled on an RCBO system, but not on an RCD board). The bars and screws have also changed from softer brass (a bit closer to the Copper hardness), to Steel - conflicting agendas I think, cost vs consistency.

Pre-forming and settling the tail strands certainly helps with clamping, but the teeth (more like rounded ridges) on the cage clamps are far too shallow, and the pressure too low, to grip the strands if they 'shuffle' due to movement and thermal effects. [Edit: You're also not supposed to have exposed copper, so the tail is expected to go from round profile to rectangular in nearly no space, leading to a slightly tapered profile, it wouldn't happen going into a round hole].

[nfmax]

Slightly off-topic, but when wiring up systems (not CU's) using e.g. DIN rail terminal blocks with cage clamps, I was taught it's best to always use ferrule crimps with stranded wire, so I do. Is this still good advice?

[Red Squirrel]

Here's my 100a service (Canada)  200a is more typical here but this is an older house. I think it used to have a fuse box back in the day then it got swapped but the big cut off stayed behind. Normally the service is wired straight in, but having the separate cut off is actually nice.  I eventually want to put a transfer switch to transfer to a generator or my solar system so I would put that between the cut off and the panel.

Oh and don't mind my terrible spray foam job. You have seconds between sprays before your nozzle clogs so between moving step ladder around etc I was working really fast. It's a harder job than the pros make it look.




Don't turn the breaker off... take it apaaart!


Main water line runs right above it. Not ideal... lol.

Bonus pics of solar system:


"main" panel in house fed from solar system in shed.  I recently ran outlets from it to a few rooms to have solar power within reach.


Solar setup in shed


Main shed panel fed from inverter.  Powers shed lights and has feed going to house to other small panel I shown


24v battery bank using golf cart batteries

(Didn't realize pics would be that big)







 

[Monkeh]

Personally I think 'cage clamp' terminals are the primary culprit, particularly on the incomming supply tails into the consumer unit. Even when tightened to the correct torque, the thick 25mm² stranded tails will easly work loose under movement and thermal cycling. If people don't use the appropriate torque settins and torque screwdrivers, the problem is even worse.

Primarily poor practices installing (not torqing, not double checking, not fixing the tails in any way except in the terminals..), but yes, those terminals aren't wonderfully suited to typical 7-strand tails. The 19 strand types are better, but really we need to get people to crimp proper bloody lugs on.

[Gregg]

Pictures of my 200 amp 230 volt breaker panel in rural USA where the meter is outside in a separate enclosure.  It is a Cutler-Hammer brand with tinned copper bus bars that support bolt in breakers (the breakers are attached to the bus bars with machine screws. In 2006 I replaced a Zinsco panel from 1970 that was jammed full.

[themadhippy]

Primarily poor practices installing

Like not doubling over single smaller cables,but then again thats also a problem on most other terminals

[DrGeoff]

Internal and external boards. In Aus, not far from Dave.

[Black Phoenix]

Many (most?) older UK homes have the mains feed coming in under the stairs, so have the consumer unit in the same place - directly under a wooden primary escape route! There are many videos on the subject. High drain items like high kW electric showers and EV chargers only make the problem worse.

Yeah thanks everyone for the replies, I forgot that in the UK the cable entrances in the houses are always in awkward to work places, mostly inside or under cabinets and stairs.

In Portugal all entrances of old houses are in main corridors with a door to the outside of the house (could be the main door house corridor or a backyard one), close to the door, with the entrance and fuse box high, close to the ceiling, then the cable coming down to the meter, from there to the main CU and then going back up to the ceiling, through it and running in the loft, coming down each room from there, normally outside of the wall.

Only in the 70s/80s internal wall routing were starting to be common, with the consumer unit in the main corridor closet the door. Nowardays it is a common cabinet, at chest height (around 1.2m to 1.5m from the floor) that can or not be combined with a multimedia one for Ethernet and CATV/Satellite star network. If it is not combined then the multimedia it is an extra CU lower in height, close to the floor.

Mostly are in-wall assembly in metal, but can be plastic and secondary CUs are normally outside wall plastic or metal.

For heating is always piping inside the wall, hot and cold, connected to a gas heater or a electric boiler. Could also be in newer houses a electric heater with a hot water reservoir.

[nibblebyte]

Fusebox and parts of heating solution in 1st and 2nd floor. Water is heated from heatpump.
The air conditions use more power that the heating solution... (heatpump much more effective than the air conditions.)
Heatpump is Panasonic, Air Condition is Toshiba.

House is built 2014.

[newbrain]

A flat in Stockholm, built 2007.

A lot of breakers for 60 m², Huvudbrytare is the main, three phase breaker (Huvud = head).
A single three phase 30 mA RCD (JFB - Jordfelsbrytare, ground fault breaker) protects the whole apartment.
Electric stove gets the full three phases, regular loads are distributed.

Meters are not generally accessible (a couple of representatives in the building have the keys to the service rooms).

Very clean wiring, no exposed live contacts, everything properly grounded, a spare breaker (number 12), a nice amount of room for Ethernet and cable TV distribution (the panel has a separating wall), utility sockets.
Quite a nice job, I'd say.
I'll post my Rome panel in some days, just for comparison.

[MarginallyStable]

Interesting to see how it is outside Yankee territory. Here is my 200amp service, pretty much filled up. Once I get a pic of my network setup, I'll start a similar topic on that!!

[Black Phoenix]

Interesting to see how it is outside Yankee territory. Here is my 200amp service, pretty much filled up. Once I get a pic of my network setup, I'll start a similar topic on that!!

This one is totally filled to the brim. Having a subpanel installed is not an option?

[Jester]

Future-Proofed.......our bungalow was built 50 years ago.  400A service, 200A for the house and 200A for the garage.

Fast charge cars in the future, no problem

[Red Squirrel]

Woah not messing around lol.  If it doesn't cost that much more and does not affect monthly bill then why not.   

[Red Squirrel]

I should do a tour of my lab building power room, it's pretty large and handles a multi floor commercial office building. Probably wouldn't know what I'm looking at though 
Probably wouldn't make it public, but could be a supporter video.

Should also do the fuse box inside my lab, I don't think I've ever taken the panel off before to see behind.

This could make a fun Electroboom collab video.