Author Topic: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others  (Read 808 times)

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Offline Tomorokoshi

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Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« on: January 31, 2020, 05:13:53 pm »
I need to consider the impact of Brexit on marking and approvals. Some light background:

https://www.conformance.co.uk/31-featured-information/257-brexit-update

https://www.nsai.ie/brexit/do-you-use-a-uk-notified-body/

We have already transferred our NB's to locations outside of the UK. It will take some time before everything settles regarding the UKCA mark. It seems that standards will remain somewhat harmonized but I am worried about the UK becoming another Korea when it comes to standards.

I expect this will become one of the bureaucratic engineering tasks for 2020.
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 07:00:20 pm »
I don't really see a reason why it would have an impact on recognized standards within the UK. There are quite a few countries outside of the EU in Europe and they're doing fine with this.

The fact you'll have to switch to a non-UK NB is an inconvenience, but not that bad. Many companies actually use NBs outside of their home country for various reasons (cost, delivery time, etc.)
(The fact a non-EU member can't host a NB for CE is understandable, but kind of odd nonetheless, especially knowing that the CE mark is recognized in many countries outside of the EU. Just a remark here. Not meant to be polemic.)

In the short term, the really concerning point IMO will be for UK NBs themselves - there's bound to be some significant layoff there. From some figures I got (may not be 100% recent or accurate), the UK was the country with the most NBs within the EU!

Now it's up to you guys to make it go in the right direction.
 

Online ebastler

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 10:25:15 pm »
I dunno... There are plenty of Notified Bodies outside of the EU, under Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRAs). Such agreements are in place between the EU and Australia, Canada, Japan, New Zealand, Switzerland, and the United States. See the EU's NANDO website, https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/nando/.

Here's a list of the NBs on the US alone: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/nando/index.cfm?fuseaction=country.notifiedbody&cou_id=840

The UK would be rather ill-advised if they do not negotiate an MRA to take over after the Brexit transition period. I think the suggestion to move to non-UK notified bodies asap is just NSAI (who happen to offer their own services as a Notified Body  ::)) drumming up some business. Honi soit qui mal y pense...
 
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Online nctnico

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 10:42:16 pm »
What Ebastler says: test houses are known to have opinions which provide them with the most business. Let's just see where things go. I wouldn't be surprised if the CE mark is recognised by the UK in the end. The market is just too small to have their own certification system. A UK only certification system doesn't help UK businesses because they'd have to certify everything twice (once for CE and once for UK) where EU based companies may not care about having a UK certification at all.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 11:06:45 pm »
What Ebastler says: test houses are known to have opinions which provide them with the most business. Let's just see where things go. I wouldn't be surprised if the CE mark is recognised by the UK in the end. The market is just too small to have their own certification system. A UK only certification system doesn't help UK businesses because they'd have to certify everything twice (once for CE and once for UK) where EU based companies may not care about having a UK certification at all.

yeh unless the UK wants to go back to the age of the steam engine they'll have to recognize something like CE
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2020, 12:04:46 am »
What Ebastler says: test houses are known to have opinions which provide them with the most business. Let's just see where things go. I wouldn't be surprised if the CE mark is recognised by the UK in the end. The market is just too small to have their own certification system. A UK only certification system doesn't help UK businesses because they'd have to certify everything twice (once for CE and once for UK) where EU based companies may not care about having a UK certification at all.

yeh unless the UK wants to go back to the age of the steam engine they'll have to recognize something like CE

Many brexiters obviously don't know and/or care...
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2020, 02:38:22 am »
The UK would be rather ill-advised if they do not negotiate an MRA to take over after the Brexit transition period.

Of course... but I suspect the EU will make it VERY hard for the UK to negotiate any MRA, at least for a while. I may be pessimistic or paranoid... ::)
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2020, 01:22:19 am »
The UK would be rather ill-advised if they do not negotiate an MRA to take over after the Brexit transition period.

Of course... but I suspect the EU will make it VERY hard for the UK to negotiate any MRA, at least for a while. I may be pessimistic or paranoid... ::)
I don't think the EU will make it hard to get an MRA in place. I just assume UKCA will be 100% compatible with CE regulations and the UK keeps a say in the process of creating/updating the regulations. Or at least that would make the most sense in order to keep costs for businesses in the UK + EU and consumers in the UK the lowest.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 01:23:50 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline station240

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2020, 02:10:32 am »
They have had 4 years to sort this out properly, plan what to do, inform industry.
Nope, lets leave everything to the last minute, release draft documents etc.
UK's government is a joke.  :-DD
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2020, 11:02:24 am »
They have had 4 years to sort this out properly, plan what to do, inform industry.
Nope, lets leave everything to the last minute, release draft documents etc.
UK's government is a joke.  :-DD
The problem is the margin for leave was tiny, so it's not surprising the government couldn't sort it out, with half of them fighting against Brexit. Progress has only been made now because the Conservative Party, who are pro-Brexit, won the last general election.
 

Offline SerieZ

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2020, 11:25:39 am »
I am worried about the UK becoming another Korea when it comes to standards.

No one, except the obnoxious EU-Philes who want to punish the non-believers, have an Interest in Creating a swamp of Standards.
Unfortunately looking at Switzerlands relation with the Enlightened Union it might be a mess. These people thrive on it. :palm:
As easy as paint by number.
 

Online richard.cs

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2020, 01:34:27 pm »
The problem is the margin for leave was tiny, so it's not surprising the government couldn't sort it out, with half of them fighting against Brexit. Progress has only been made now because the Conservative Party, who are pro-Brexit, won the last general election.

Moreover the margin for leave was so tiny (~2%, <1.3 million votes) that it is far from clear was a majority for it by the time it happened last Friday. Even ignoring that people can and do change their minds it's well known that there was a huge age disparity in the voting with older people tending much more to vote leave, and around 600,000 mostly older people die every year. Most of the surveys suggest a majority to remain, e.g. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/should-the-united-kingdom-remain-a-member-of-the-european-union-or-leave-the-european-union-asked-after-the-referendum/

The fact that wasn't reflected in the general election is mostly (in my opinion) because a general election is on multiple wider issues, and for many people it just wasn't the biggest thing they were worried about. That and a good fraction of people always vote the same way regardless of situation and policies.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2020, 05:03:24 pm »
The whole Brexit debacle probably makes it into the history books as the biggest political event since Magna Carta. In the end Brexit shows total lack of competence where it comes to leadership.

Let's hope that is over and some sensible standards & trade agreements are put in place.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline langwadt

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2020, 05:32:50 pm »
The problem is the margin for leave was tiny, so it's not surprising the government couldn't sort it out, with half of them fighting against Brexit. Progress has only been made now because the Conservative Party, who are pro-Brexit, won the last general election.

Moreover the margin for leave was so tiny (~2%, <1.3 million votes) that it is far from clear was a majority for it by the time it happened last Friday. Even ignoring that people can and do change their minds it's well known that there was a huge age disparity in the voting with older people tending much more to vote leave, and around 600,000 mostly older people die every year.

which bring up another issue, if it turns out to be a giant catastrofuck, many of those who caused it for won't be around for the fallout


 

Online magic

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Re: Post-Brexit marking, standards, etc. for CE and others
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 07:48:21 pm »
None of those will be around for the fallout could see it coming :P
 


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