Author Topic: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!  (Read 4735 times)

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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« on: May 07, 2020, 12:24:59 pm »
This is NOT a 'bitch', but a praise for the workers out there/here!!

Two nights ago, at about 7:50pm, we lost power in most of Bunbury, 200kms Sth of Perth, Western Australia.
We've had massive storms of wind & rain causing massive damage for 100's of kms radius. Now us Mere people often think we are hard done by, and we easily forget how reliant we are on Power! No TV, no Internet, no lights, no electric kettle, Laptops died so no alternative USB for Tablets or Phones, so all are flat. No info coming in as have no battery radio. Spent all the next day doing CrossWords! outside, until dark AGAIN.
We think we have it hard... Our Pioneer Farmers etc had no power, EVER!! except eventually DC battery banks for lights!

I soon chastised myself, after finally hearing about work-crews, on the car radio.  They had 40 crews working flat out in multiple overlapping shifts. Called in a further 20-30 crews from remote regions to help. It seems that there was a 2nd wave to the storms, that created much MORE damage, and so the 'restoration' crews were called away to first deal with the immediate Safety issues for the new damage.
Finally, they could get back to restoration work, and now by the following evening after dark again, they finally got the power back on.

By now, it was still raining heavily, and windy & miserable, but all these guys were still working 10-12-14 hour shifts in appalling conditions. We need to be thankful to those, & the S.E.S. (State Emergency Services), FireBrigade, and numerous volunteer groups that dedicate themselves during such times. We should think LESS about what we DON'T have, and more about what we DO have!!  :-+
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2020, 01:49:38 pm »
Good excuse to put together a solar power system with backup?
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 
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Offline engrguy42

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2020, 02:05:09 pm »
Good excuse to put together a solar power system with backup?

Well....I guess by definition, the solar radiation during a storm is pretty low, and solar won't help much. Attached is the solar radiation for Perth today. Since solar panels are rated for 1,000 watts/square meter, you can see that the actual was only down in the 200 range most of the day. And, of course, zero at night. 

So unless you have a boatload of batteries that you didn't use previously (when the sun was out), you're kinda outta luck.
- The best engineers know enough to realize they don't know nuthin'...
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Offline GlennSpriggTopic starter

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2020, 02:49:49 pm »
Good excuse to put together a solar power system with backup?

I guess we are 'Lucky' to not be in Tornado Alley in the U.S., where such provisions may be expected.
This is definitely outside the 'Norm' for us, so we are majorly less prepared/expected!!   :)
Diagonal of 1x1 square = Root-2. Ok.
Diagonal of 1x1x1 cube = Root-3 !!!  Beautiful !!
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2020, 02:50:15 pm »
Yep, our whole civilization is hanging on wires.
 ;D

Always wanted to have one of these:  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/a-Portrait-of-A-F-Ioffe-b-Radio-receiver-powered-by-a-thermolectric-generator_fig9_277006654

Better pics here, in the second half of the page, titled "THE RUSSIAN LAMP: 1959"
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/thermoelectric/thermoelectric.htm#rl

This one is nice, too:


Maybe an old laptop, or a tablet, with nothing but an offline copy of Wikipedia wouldn't hurt, either.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_download
 :popcorn:
 
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Offline PTR_1275

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2020, 03:28:06 pm »
Up in Perth there were quite a lot of spot outages. A car got crushed by a falling tree branch not far from home. The network is pretty impressive how they can isolate such small sections to keep the rest up.

Working predominantly with low voltage systems for caravans and camping, I have a decent portable setup and can run lights and power basic things for long enough to get through most outages. The generator comes out for the fridges and freezers though.

The linesman work in bad conditions until the job is done. It’s cold, wet, windy, mostly dark and they’re out there cleaning up the carnage. No way I could do what they do.

I hope fellow west aussies on here got through the storms without too much damage. The seas were pretty wild down south, I saw reports of 11m swells and 10m seas.
 

Offline rsjsouza

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2020, 03:53:27 pm »
We here are the same - very thankful for the workers repairing the electricity connections during an outage, which happens mostly during thunderstorms or other unpleasant conditions.

I am even taking the time to infuse that on our twin 7 year olds - don't take anything for granted and we are not an island.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

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Offline richard.cs

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 03:55:11 pm »
Always wanted to have one of these:  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/a-Portrait-of-A-F-Ioffe-b-Radio-receiver-powered-by-a-thermolectric-generator_fig9_277006654

I built the lamp in the photo below a few years back. Once warmed up it can be turned down to candle-flame levels and far more light, white and usefully directional, comes out of the LED than from the flame. It's a 60 W peltier from a camping fridge, heatsink from the same, a 5 W nominal white LED lamp very much under-run, and a one transistor boost circuit.
 
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Offline bazzatron

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 10:51:36 pm »
Was a wild night here in Rockingham WA, my wife woke me early,5pm, saying she heard a loud crash.
On investigation i was confronted by the arrival of the remains of my neighbors steel garden shed in my back garden and on my spa roof.
It was a tangled mess and had destroyed my clothes line and weather vane.
I had to act fast and cut it apart with power tools to prevent more damage in the still high wind.
My son arrived quickly and between us we managed to remove it from the roof and garden and flatpack it under some concrete slabs.
My neighbor arrived the following day and removed the remains of his shed.
Luckily no one was hurt and minimal damage was caused.
Power stayed on ok.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 11:53:12 pm »
Good excuse to put together a solar power system with backup?

Well....I guess by definition, the solar radiation during a storm is pretty low, and solar won't help much. Attached is the solar radiation for Perth today. Since solar panels are rated for 1,000 watts/square meter, you can see that the actual was only down in the 200 range most of the day. And, of course, zero at night. 

So unless you have a boatload of batteries that you didn't use previously (when the sun was out), you're kinda outta luck.
The OP described a longer term power interruption, even without backup having solar to charge up DC powered devices during the day is still useful.
 

Offline engrguy42

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2020, 12:06:51 am »
Good excuse to put together a solar power system with backup?

Well....I guess by definition, the solar radiation during a storm is pretty low, and solar won't help much. Attached is the solar radiation for Perth today. Since solar panels are rated for 1,000 watts/square meter, you can see that the actual was only down in the 200 range most of the day. And, of course, zero at night. 

So unless you have a boatload of batteries that you didn't use previously (when the sun was out), you're kinda outta luck.
The OP described a longer term power interruption, even without backup having solar to charge up DC powered devices during the day is still useful.

What DC powered devices?
- The best engineers know enough to realize they don't know nuthin'...
- Those who agree with you can do no wrong. Those who disagree can do no right.
- I'm always amazed at how many people "already knew that" after you explain it to them in detail...
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2020, 01:41:27 am »
hey, its a wake up call. If you don't want a generator, which I can understand (total pain in the fucking ass sometimes), spend a couple of dollars

-AA/AAA gadgets
-nice box of spare batteries
-portable inverter for what ever
-butane can stove, like a good one (unless you have gas)
-battery radio, preferably a boom box with D cells so you can relax
-power bank
-walki talkies

https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Portable-Butane-Stove-Carrying/dp/B00FGPXVSM
-most important thing, because you need tea

All this is like 300$


On one hand a generator can kill you with anger, on the other hand it gives you something to fix when there is no power
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 01:43:58 am by coppercone2 »
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2020, 03:06:53 am »
I guess we are 'Lucky' to not be in Tornado Alley in the U.S., where such provisions may be expected.
This is definitely outside the 'Norm' for us, so we are majorly less prepared/expected!!   :)

I live in the central US and power outages after storms are a yearly occurrence.  After my first ice storm where I burned a month's worth of wood in one week, I provisioned myself with backup propane heating, backup kerosene heating, and a backup gasoline generator.  The generator gets a good workout at least twice a year.

 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2020, 03:37:49 am »
how do you store kerosene? Living in a warm place I only keep a few gallons on hand of the sealed stabilized more expensive can (thankfully never had to use it)
 

Offline Berni

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2020, 05:47:29 am »
Similar thing happened here, except it was an ice storm. Combination of cold temperatures and rain coated everything in a few centimeters of ice. The weight of all that ice snapped overhead wires, brought down power poles, trees falling across roads...etc. Nobody seen anything like it in the last 100 years.

As a result places all over the country lost power, some got cut off from the world due to the few roads around being covered in fallen trees. Some places ware without power for a few hours here and there, some places lost power for 2 weeks (the more remote difficult to reach places). Generators flew off store shelves. It was quite the situation.

Where i live we lost power twice for about a day, but it was still a huge pain in the ass. Its only then you realize how important power is. At least we still have a fireplace in the living room to keep the house warm(Otherwise we use a heatpump that needs a lot of power, so would need a hefty generator). Cell service didn't go down where i live so you still had internet to some degree and a 12V charger could be used in a car to recharge the phone.
 

Offline PTR_1275

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2020, 05:49:07 am »
I have a Honda EU20i generator. Everytime I think about selling it, there is a need for it.

Generators in general can be a pain, but treat them well and do things like draining the fuel from the carby after each use and they’ll be reliable.

Get a cheap generator and it’s hit and miss. Get a good generator and you are normally pretty safe.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2020, 08:19:55 am »
I have a bit of a backup system myself, but I would love to do solar too.  Problem is the snow.  I have a 400w system on my shed but until I figure out a way to automate the snow removal, and also deal with the more nasty stuff like freezing rain, it only works for like 3 months of the year.



I eventually want to buy a bigger property so I can have room to put a big array and put the panels vertical.  Would probably do 3 arrays, east, south, west. 

A small propane generator would not be a bad idea to have though. I like the idea of propane as it's cleaner, not only for the environment but for the engine itself.  So for something that does not get lot of use it's probably less prone to issues like gunking up etc.
 

Online David Hess

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2020, 01:42:10 pm »
how do you store kerosene? Living in a warm place I only keep a few gallons on hand of the sealed stabilized more expensive can (thankfully never had to use it)

The kerosene is in 5 gallon fuel cans in the garage.
 

Online Zero999

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2020, 05:07:10 pm »
I've being living at my current house for four years and have so far only had one power cut about three years ago, despite having some really bad weather ranging from wind, heavy rain and snow, over the last three winters.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2020, 12:53:28 am »
how do you store kerosene? Living in a warm place I only keep a few gallons on hand of the sealed stabilized more expensive can (thankfully never had to use it)

The kerosene is in 5 gallon fuel cans in the garage.

careful it does not keep so well in those cans

I hate buying fuels because they never store well. Even the stabilized expensive one sold in sealed jugs with plastic seal are rated by manufacturer for 3 years (and I mean klean heat at 11$ a gallon)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 12:57:33 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2020, 01:10:38 am »

A small propane generator would not be a bad idea to have though. I like the idea of propane as it's cleaner, not only for the environment but for the engine itself.  So for something that does not get lot of use it's probably less prone to issues like gunking up etc.

I can recommend mr. heater, with a 20 pound cylinder adapter. It's very tactical but I don't like keeping propane in the house for obvious reasons, but they screw right in and you can have heat some where in a hurry. I used to refill the propane cylinders with the ice and fridge trick, but I found one of them slowly leaking once so I stopped reusing them.

That way, you have two propane powered appliances, making it a better value. Also a useful way to get rid of left over propane, since you might not want to run a generator on a 1/4 filled tank. I guess you can get some kind of manifold but that is kind of complicated, since you will be left with half empty tanks eventually, expensive/waste of space. I find half empty BBQ tanks to be a problem, even if you grill.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 02:09:50 am by coppercone2 »
 

Offline IDEngineer

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2020, 06:54:33 pm »
Where we live we get several multi-hour power outages per year. When we get really severe weather (50 MPH winds with gusts to 70 for 12-24 hours, ice storms, etc.) we have gone several days without power and some areas around here have been without power for 2-3 weeks in the 38 years we've lived in this region.

We have a 7KW gasoline generator and keep a couple dozen gallons of treated, non-ethanol gasoline on hand at all times. We have enough engine-powered things around (boats, ATV's, jetskis, plus cars) that the gasoline gets FIFO'd so it doesn't go stale. I run the generator for 30 minutes or so at the first of every month as a preventive measure. Everything that generates large amounts of heat in the house (HVAC, water heater, dryer, oven, cooktop, etc.) is natural gas fired, and all light bulbs have been switched to LED, so 7KW of on-site power allows us to run the house like normal 24/7.

The remaining last step would be a NatGas fired autostart generator with an automated transfer switch. I can honestly say that in my lifetime I have NEVER seen the natural gas system "go out" unexpectedly, and I've lived in three US States including "earthquake prone" California. An automatic NatGas generator is about is foolproof as you can get. But by the time you buy the generator, and install it, and pay the gas company to increase your meter size to support the increased demand (it's substantial), you're approaching USD 10K and I can manually start a gasoline generator a lot of times for that much money.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 06:56:15 pm by IDEngineer »
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2020, 08:23:24 pm »
benefit is refrigerator protection
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2020, 08:31:55 pm »
I've looked into those natural gas generators too but yeah can't quite justify it.  For fridge/freezer, if things got really bad I would just make ice outside and bring it in, or start moving food outside.   

For a while every time it was windy we got a power outage on my block since trees would touch the HV line that runs behind my house, but the crews would usually have it back up within 1-2 hours so the UPS made more sense.   They've been keeping the trees trimmed now so it happens less often.
 

Offline coppercone2

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Re: Power Failures! In the year 2020 !!
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2020, 09:16:13 pm »
I've looked into those natural gas generators too but yeah can't quite justify it.  For fridge/freezer, if things got really bad I would just make ice outside and bring it in, or start moving food outside.   

For a while every time it was windy we got a power outage on my block since trees would touch the HV line that runs behind my house, but the crews would usually have it back up within 1-2 hours so the UPS made more sense.   They've been keeping the trees trimmed now so it happens less often.

i struggled with a cheap gasoline one for like 15 years, fuck it. I am hank hill about that. One fuel for grill, heat and electricity. Does not spoil. Does not smell. Actually works. And you CAN put gasoline in it if you want to, so long you clean it after (hopefully it will never come to this).

I do wonder if it would have a problem in a really cold weather environment, but its usually summer rain storms here

Also the factor of draining fuel (usually wait for it to cool some what) is annoying as hell. This you can put away and forget about immediately after 2 couplings and 1 valve.

BTW you can get a kit to refurbish generators to run on propane, i.e. the tiny honda generators. That might be very interesting for you. Those little hondas are really cool, but I don't own one, rather have everything work then play circuit breaker management etc. You can probably do it with a cheap garbage one too.



Notes about video to do a better job:
1) add a bracket for the zip tie, don't tie two hoses together, its really ghetto
2) use a torque wrench (its fire)
3) do apply the loctite and see if you can extend the threads, I don't like it for high vibration, read about how to use threadlocker and clean before using it as recommended. Careful with temperature there, you might need a high temp threadlocker, and you need to make sure there is no plastic contact because metal threadlocker does not like plastic, and plastic safe threadlocker is gummy and probobly sucks with temperature. consider using a lockwire, castle nut, etc
4) lose the quick connect, lazy BS, use a gas rated brass fitting (like on a welder)
5) strain relief on the hose might be a good idea (bracket + rubber)
6) don't use the thin plastic cover to mount the top fitting, add a bracket to a heavy structural element
« Last Edit: May 09, 2020, 09:34:33 pm by coppercone2 »
 
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