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| AVGresponding:
--- Quote from: MK14 on June 14, 2023, 04:06:45 pm --- --- Quote from: AVGresponding on June 14, 2023, 03:57:22 pm ---There wouldn't be enough genetic diversity in one family, unless it was particularly large (in the thousands). Also, there hasn't been enough time for the genetic differentiation we can observe in native populations, nor enough time for them to migrate to all the long inhabited regions, which in any case have archaeological records of habitation going back tens of thousands of years in many cases. --- End quote --- The scientific evidence, would appear to say that 40% of the Chinese men (300 Million people), are originally decended from the same 3 Men (Great great great ... grandfathers), from around 5,000 years ago. Edit: I'm trying to illustrate the point. That a very small number of people, can create a massive population. Which in this case, uses China as an example. https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/dna-evidence-suggests-300-million-chinese-men-are-descended-from-just-three-stone-age-grandfathers-e91d1c313489 --- Quote ---DNA Evidence Suggests 300 Million Chinese Men Are Descended From Just Three Stone Age Grandfathers More than 40 per cent of the Chinese Han population can trace their family tree back to three ‘super-grandfathers’ who lived during the Neolithic era --- End quote --- --- End quote --- That's a misunderstanding of what the data actually represents. It's (almost but not quite) like saying almost everyone in the UK is descended from Richard III, simply because after so many generations, most people in the UK do have some of his DNA. It's also true, though probably politically uncorrect to say it these days, that a viable breeding population requires fewer males than females, a ratio of 100:1 or more would be feasible. Mitochondrial DNA analysis would probably give a more useful picture of the actual size of the breeding population at the time of those "super-grandfathers". |
| MK14:
--- Quote from: AVGresponding on June 15, 2023, 04:09:16 pm ---That's a misunderstanding of what the data actually represents. It's (almost but not quite) like saying almost everyone in the UK is descended from Richard III, simply because after so many generations, most people in the UK do have some of his DNA. It's also true, though probably politically uncorrect to say it these days, that a viable breeding population requires fewer males than females, a ratio of 100:1 or more would be feasible. Mitochondrial DNA analysis would probably give a more useful picture of the actual size of the breeding population at the time of those "super-grandfathers". --- End quote --- On the other hand. It would seem to indicate, that the concept of a massive flood event, wiping out huge chunks or even all of the Earths population, a very long time ago (e.g. 5,000 years ago). Could have reduced the population to a very small number of initial survivors, perhaps 3 men and a few or so women. Then many thousands of years later (i.e. now), there could be hundreds of millions or billions of people from that original event. The points you made previously about diversity of the over all (worlds) population, and scattering of it, to many parts of the globe, are very good ones. So my explanation above, might need a number of changes, such as to the exact time of the flooding event(s), and other things. To account for how we are, where we are (as regards the worlds human population). N.B. I'm NOT trying to agree (or disagree) with the flood (Noah) theory, just trying to be somewhat scientific. Also, I'd prefer to still take into account the nuclear DNA (nDNA) as well, as the more information that can be used, the more likely, accurate predictions of what really happened, can take place. Anyway, the ratios of taking just 2 animals of each type, wouldn't really work out, as I see it. Because, if a particular animal, needs to eat thousands (each year) of much smaller animals (or fish) to survive. Then just having a single pair of its food source, wouldn't keep it fed. Also, I'm not sure that the entire Earth could be fully, 100% flooded (land wise), for a period of time, then a huge amount of that water, disappears. Really works out, as floods usually just affect, a relatively small percentage of Earth, at any given time. I suppose the flood, could just be in the area, that the then, human population, was living, a very long time ago. Before they became more adventurous, and moved around the globe. The problem with stories, is that it is very easy to just twist them, to fit the available facts. So, you can't really tell, if they are true or not. |
| rea5245:
--- Quote from: MK14 on June 15, 2023, 04:27:49 pm ---Could have reduced the population to a very small number of initial survivors, perhaps 3 men and a few or so women. Then many thousands of years later (i.e. now), there could be hundreds of millions or billions of people from that original event. --- End quote --- The DNA doesn't show that. Imagine, as a contrived example, there are 1,000 men. 1 of them has sons, while all the others have daughters (obviously contrived, but for illustrative purposes). Thousands of years later, a study of Y chromosomes will find that there was a single originator of it. But he is not the only super-grandfather. All thousand men are super-grandfathers, and their DNA is widely spread. They're just not discoverable through the Y chromosome. Every man who has only daughters, vanishes from a Y chromosome analysis. Every man who has sons, but whose great-grandsons are all killed in a war, vanishes from the analysis. Y chromosome lineages are always vanishing. It doesn't mean that there was a time when there was only one man. |
| MK14:
--- Quote from: rea5245 on June 15, 2023, 04:43:32 pm ---The DNA doesn't show that. Imagine, as a contrived example, there are 1,000 men. 1 of them has sons, while all the others have daughters (obviously contrived, but for illustrative purposes). Thousands of years later, a study of Y chromosomes will find that there was a single originator of it. But he is not the only super-grandfather. All thousand men are super-grandfathers, and their DNA is widely spread. They're just not discoverable through the Y chromosome. Every man who has only daughters, vanishes from a Y chromosome analysis. Every man who has sons, but whose great-grandsons are all killed in a war, vanishes from the analysis. Y chromosome lineages are always vanishing. It doesn't mean that there was a time when there was only one man. --- End quote --- That makes sense, thanks for clearing that up for me (and others). |
| nctnico:
--- Quote from: rea5245 on June 15, 2023, 12:45:56 am --- --- Quote from: jonovid on June 14, 2023, 11:48:55 pm ---clean and unclean suggests some animals may have dna corruption. --- End quote --- Unclean animals are the ones that behave in an unclean manner (scavengers, living in filth, etc.). God forbids eating them, which is part of the kosher laws. --- End quote --- My interpretation is that the meat from such animals (like pigs) is hard to preserve for a reasonable amount of time c.q. needs to be cooked thouroughly. The invention of refridgerators / freezers has eliminated the preservation problem. |
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