Author Topic: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...  (Read 10405 times)

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Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #175 on: November 04, 2019, 10:40:00 pm »
So much for Gitlab being an alternative for Github. It seems they're holding people's work and even operations hostage until they agree with the new terms and conditions. So much for freely and willingly engaging in a contract.

Wait are people seriously putting their projects on sites like that without having any kind of local copy?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #176 on: November 04, 2019, 10:43:20 pm »
Usually something needs to be centralised for access and build support.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #177 on: November 05, 2019, 12:08:11 am »
So much for Gitlab being an alternative for Github. It seems they're holding people's work and even operations hostage until they agree with the new terms and conditions. So much for freely and willingly engaging in a contract.
Wait are people seriously putting their projects on sites like that without having any kind of local copy?
The local copy is only gone if you delete the git repository from your own hard drive. Remember git is a distributed versioning system. A local copy contains all the data by default (you can prune data by leaving out specific branches or deleting changes beyond a certain age). A remote git repository is nothing more than an image of what you have locally.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 12:10:01 am by nctnico »
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Offline rjp

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #178 on: November 05, 2019, 01:12:24 am »
As a consumer I want the one off payment with permenant ownership model but as a producer I want a  stable income stream that manages the full life time of the product, including bug fixes and upgrades.

Ive happily moved many things to cloud based, you cant seriously manage a team based developement without it, depending on how much time you want to spend on systems admin and operating systems patching.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #179 on: November 05, 2019, 09:38:36 am »
Regarding the last point, that's only because we have been trained to accept that by all the marketing from all the centralised services. Git wasn't even designed to work that way. The whole point of git was fully distributed development via patch distribution.

I actually know a company that does this properly.

Each dev pulls upstream from the product manager. The product manager pushes his repo to QA after he's integrated all the changes from the devs. Then QA push to distribution who actually do the final build and sign it. No one works in the same place.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 09:40:11 am by bd139 »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #180 on: November 05, 2019, 11:03:21 am »
http://brave.com <- THE BEST BROWSER
 
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Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #181 on: November 05, 2019, 03:21:10 pm »
Obviously the more you delegate and the more vulnerable you can be, especially when you have no control over who you are delegating to, which is the case with online "cloud" services. If you are a paid customer, you may at least think you're entitled to some control as a customer, but if you read the license agreements carefully, you'll see you have basically none in most cases. Whether you're OK with that is up to you.

If you're using one of those services for practical reasons, you should always consider them as temporary, work storage IMO, and not permanent.

Many see those services as a way not to need any IT work in their company. This is fucked-up in several ways. The most important one is that whatever you do, there must be some people responsible for data integrity in a given company. Many things can be delegated to third parties, but responsibility is not one of them. Would you also have a virtual CEO in a cloud service while you're at it? |O

So yeah, someone has to be responsible. Of course they can still choose to delegate most of their work - but that's their responsibility. If something goes wrong, they will be accountable. Knowing that, anyone in that position and not doing anything to back up remote repositories on a regular basis must either be senseless, or they must not sleep very well at night.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #182 on: November 05, 2019, 10:41:15 pm »
Quote
US mega-retailer Best Buy will switch off the "smart" portion of its Insignia-branded smart home gadgets this coming Wednesday,
rendering them just plain old dumb gear.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/11/05/best_buy_iot/
 

Offline DimitriP

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #183 on: November 05, 2019, 11:48:03 pm »
Quote
Would you also have a virtual CEO in a cloud service while you're at it?
What? Those private jets need an excuse to be on the air!!!






   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #184 on: November 05, 2019, 11:50:52 pm »
This is how I see any proprietary license (cloud-based or not).

 
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Offline DimitriP

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #185 on: November 05, 2019, 11:55:02 pm »
Quote
US mega-retailer Best Buy will switch off the "smart" portion of its Insignia-branded smart home gadgets this coming Wednesday,
rendering them just plain old dumb gear.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/11/05/best_buy_iot/

In a way, thats great news..at least in the context of this thread.
   If three 100  Ohm resistors are connected in parallel, and in series with a 200 Ohm resistor, how many resistors do you have? 
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #186 on: November 06, 2019, 12:08:35 am »
This is how I see any proprietary license (cloud-based or not).
(...)

Except here, the devil is actually getting your money as well. You lose twice. ;D
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #187 on: November 06, 2019, 01:11:12 am »
This is how I see any proprietary license (cloud-based or not).


Proprietary and cloud are two rather different things.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #188 on: November 06, 2019, 07:54:30 am »
Do you consider nowadays smartphone OS (not the apps installed), is also considered as cloud dependence piece of software too ? Even you've disabled all auto-update on everything in it.

I mean like IOS and Android, say you're born in those cursed countries, today everything is fine & dandy, and one day your country's political allegiance shifted against US overnight, say its not your fault as you're not into political nor in your control directly.

All they need is to "legally" force Google or Apple like Adobe at the OP post, to send the lock signal of death from the mothership once your gadget gets connected.

Guess I'm too paranoid.  :-//

Offline Karel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #189 on: November 06, 2019, 08:46:23 am »
Do you consider nowadays smartphone OS (not the apps installed), is also considered as cloud dependence piece of software too ? Even you've disabled all auto-update on everything in it.

I mean like IOS and Android, say you're born in those cursed countries, today everything is fine & dandy, and one day your country's political allegiance shifted against US overnight, say its not your fault as you're not into political nor in your control directly.

All they need is to "legally" force Google or Apple like Adobe at the OP post, to send the lock signal of death from the mothership once your gadget gets connected.

Guess I'm too paranoid.  :-//

Yes, I considered that. That's why, on my android phone
- I use a fake gmail account to register android & phone
- I never use it to check or read my real email
- I didn't install facebook or whatsapp (I use telegram)
- I don't use google maps, I use Osmand instead
- I disabled chrome and use Firefox instead
- wifi is always disabled (I have a 4G dataplan of 50GB and I'm never able to consume it)
- bluetooth is always disabled
- I don't use speech commands
By the way, it's a nexus. So, I only have to deal with google's shit, no preinstalled shit from samsung or other brands which is impossible to remove or disable.
If one day, a Linux phone arrives that runs Telegram ,Osmand and Firefox, I'll buy it immediately. They are the only applications I use on the road.

 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #190 on: November 06, 2019, 10:45:35 am »
Do you consider nowadays smartphone OS (not the apps installed), is also considered as cloud dependence piece of software too ? Even you've disabled all auto-update on everything in it.

I mean like IOS and Android, say you're born in those cursed countries, today everything is fine & dandy, and one day your country's political allegiance shifted against US overnight, say its not your fault as you're not into political nor in your control directly.

All they need is to "legally" force Google or Apple like Adobe at the OP post, to send the lock signal of death from the mothership once your gadget gets connected.

Guess I'm too paranoid.  :-//

Not only that, you don't actually own any of the apps you "buy" and install on it. 

For example, I have an Android tablet in the car used only for connecting to the car's CAN bus and looking at various performance parameters (engine temperature, manifold vacuum, etc.).   This tablet never gets connected to the Internet and should not need to.

Sadly...  what seems to happen is that if the tablet is disconnected from the Internet for several months, the app "times out"...   I get an error, "App not owned" (literally!).

To cure it, I have to take the tablet into the house, connect to the Internet, and let all the spyware contact the mother ship.  Then it will work again...  for another while.

Pathetic.
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #191 on: November 06, 2019, 11:02:40 am »
Do you consider nowadays smartphone OS (not the apps installed), is also considered as cloud dependence piece of software too ? Even you've disabled all auto-update on everything in it.

I mean like IOS and Android, say you're born in those cursed countries, today everything is fine & dandy, and one day your country's political allegiance shifted against US overnight, say its not your fault as you're not into political nor in your control directly.

All they need is to "legally" force Google or Apple like Adobe at the OP post, to send the lock signal of death from the mothership once your gadget gets connected.

Guess I'm too paranoid.  :-//

Not only that, you don't actually own any of the apps you "buy" and install on it. 

For example, I have an Android tablet in the car used only for connecting to the car's CAN bus and looking at various performance parameters (engine temperature, manifold vacuum, etc.).   This tablet never gets connected to the Internet and should not need to.

Sadly...  what seems to happen is that if the tablet is disconnected from the Internet for several months, the app "times out"...   I get an error, "App not owned" (literally!).

To cure it, I have to take the tablet into the house, connect to the Internet, and let all the spyware contact the mother ship.  Then it will work again...  for another while.

Pathetic.

LOL  :-DD , as expected, hence I mentioned OS instead of app, as most apps these days are sort of selling "us" too as side income.

Just curious about that error message, was that came from the app, or the Android's system notification ?

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #192 on: November 06, 2019, 11:08:18 am »

Just curious about that error message, was that came from the app, or the Android's system notification ?

I'm not sure, actually.  I bought was graciously given permission to use the app in exchange for cash, from the Amazon app store.  The message is either coming from the app itself, or the Amazon store app (which is my primary suspect), or possibly Android itself - but it is an older version of Android (4.xx if I remember right) so perhaps it is less likely to be as bad as the later versions.
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #193 on: November 06, 2019, 07:51:17 pm »
Proprietary and cloud are two rather different things.

But the devil is the same.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #194 on: November 06, 2019, 07:53:41 pm »
But the devil is the same.
They don't appear to be.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #195 on: November 06, 2019, 11:26:33 pm »
Do you consider nowadays smartphone OS (not the apps installed), is also considered as cloud dependence piece of software too ? Even you've disabled all auto-update on everything in it.

I mean like IOS and Android, say you're born in those cursed countries, today everything is fine & dandy, and one day your country's political allegiance shifted against US overnight, say its not your fault as you're not into political nor in your control directly.

All they need is to "legally" force Google or Apple like Adobe at the OP post, to send the lock signal of death from the mothership once your gadget gets connected.

Guess I'm too paranoid.  :-//


I hate the current phone ecosystem because of how cloud tied it is. You don't really have full control of your device. It does not have to be the way it is, but it is.  The phone OSes are practically tied to the cloud and there's not much you can do.  You can't even start using a new one without tying it to an account that is tied to their service.  You can't install apps without their service, a lot of stuff you can't do without the cloud.   You can turn off a lot of the cloud based functionality if you want, but by default everything is being synced like your contacts etc.  There's no easy way around any of it.  Everything spies on you as well to make matters worse and all that spy stuff is built right into the OS.  The permission system is a false sense of security. I'm sure just because you turn off location services it does not mean the OS can't still use it and bypass it's own block.  Same with things that alert you if the mic has been accessed, the OS itself can bypass all of that.    The OSes are designed that way.  Both Apple and Android really. 

There is the Librem phone that is (I think) more stand alone and is not based on this whole concept and based around privacy.  Not sure how good it is though.   I do hope it takes off but either way I would love to see something equivalent to Linux, where you can just replace the entire OS on an existing phone.  I'm not talking about an android spin, but an actual alternate OS. Something that does not require you to sign in and tie it to Google or do any of that crap. 
 

Offline bsfeechannel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #196 on: November 07, 2019, 12:51:10 am »
But the devil is the same.
They don't appear to be.

The devil has many guises.
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #197 on: November 07, 2019, 08:03:23 am »
Mostly Larry Ellison. So just stay away from that cloud  :-DD
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #198 on: November 07, 2019, 03:23:31 pm »
The "cloud" metaphor says it all anyway.

Clouds never last.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #199 on: November 07, 2019, 03:54:28 pm »
I was at a grossery store yesterday, paying for my purchases, and there was a guy a couple people  behind me in the line, having the speakerphone turned on on his phone for some reason, and i heard a women screaming on the other end of the call and some little kids crying, and the women frantically screaming "What is going on with this security system!?". The guy kind of tried to calm her down and said "we have to use the app to turn it off".   I thought to myself like  , yeah, i wish you guys luck with your security system.
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