Author Topic: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...  (Read 140586 times)

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Online coppice

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #750 on: September 05, 2023, 07:21:19 pm »
The EU ought to mandate interoperability between communications networks, just like they mandate standard charging ports.   -  Fragmented islands of communications is frankly ridiculous and a big step backwards from the old black bakelite telephone with a rotary dial...
Comms that doesn't interoperate is a farce, but be careful what you wish for. There are numerous examples around the world of mandated interoperability agreements locking communications into being being eternally expensive.

I we keep it simple, e.g. at the level of SMS, for example, it is hardly asking a lot...
SMS is actually a good example of what I was referring to. Originally most GSM phones interoperated just fine for boice, because they had to connect to the global PSTN to be useful. SMS didn't. In many countries you could only SMS to another phone on the same network. Then governments stepped in, reasonably saying this was dumb, and pushing the networks to interoperate. So, they formed working groups, set fees for exchanging SMSes, with no tit for tat arrangements in the pricing. Now, SMS was locked in by agreements with the government to be damned expensive forever. Needless to say, in markets where this happened SMS volumes were always low.

Yes, but today SMS is (usually) cheap, and it works!  What they choose to charge is not really related to what it does...
What you charge DETERMINES what something does in practice. Something everyone should be familiar with in regard to what has happened to perceptions of good uses for energy in the past 3 years, where it has been priced out of various otherwise desirable things.

Yes, but the cost of providing the energy went up (a lot)...   The cost of providing a simple interoperability interface should not be too bad.   Maybe everyone could code to some preferably open source API.
You seem to be responding to an entirely different thread.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #751 on: September 06, 2023, 05:07:52 pm »
Remember the LastPass breach?

Experts Fear Crooks are Cracking Keys Stolen in LastPass Breach: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2023/09/experts-fear-crooks-are-cracking-keys-stolen-in-lastpass-breach/
 
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Online PlainName

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #752 on: September 06, 2023, 06:09:37 pm »
Wow! Glad I never succumbed to a cloud PM.
 

Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #753 on: September 07, 2023, 10:46:15 pm »
You seem to be responding to an entirely different thread.

Let me restate the argument:

Requiring interoperability promotes user choice and prevents lock-in. Instead of messaging apps acting as walled gardens or closed networks, interoperability allows users on different platforms to communicate, rather than being siloed. This gives users more freedom in choosing apps based on features, design, etc., rather than being forced to use the same platform as their contacts.

Requiring interoperability encourages competition and innovation. Interoperability lowers switching costs for users. This puts competitive pressure on platforms to constantly improve and add new features to retain users. It also levels the playing field for new entrants who can interconnect with dominant incumbents. Overall, this spurs innovation across the messaging ecosystem.  It is a defense against being abused by monopoly companies and their lobbyists.

Requiring interoperability improves the user experience, enabling exciting new use cases like unified messaging across multiple networks. Users can manage conversations with their full contact list in one place, rather than having fragmented discussions across disconnected apps. This makes messaging simpler, more seamless and intuitive.

Requiring interoperability promotes inclusion and equity. Lack of interoperability can exclude some demographics from conversations if they do not use all the dominant platforms du jour. Interoperability enables easier communication between all users regardless of socioeconomic status or technical savviness. This promotes more equitable access to digital communication tools.

Requiring interoperability can enables new functionalities and new growth areas like cross-platform payments, multimedia sharing, read receipts etc. Developers can build higher-level services on top of interconnected networks, like AI-based language translation between messaging apps. This could create richer, more functional messaging experiences.

Overall, even though mandating interoperability does place some minor burdens on messaging platforms, the benefits for users, competition and innovation outweigh these costs. This is why thoughtful regulation to require interoperability is beneficial, and the EU should continue to do what it does well - i.e. improve the lives of their citizens and strengthening its democratic credibility, while ignoring the siren voices of greedy corporations and their acolytes.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 10:48:13 pm by SilverSolder »
 
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Online coppice

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #754 on: September 08, 2023, 03:42:12 pm »
You seem to be responding to an entirely different thread.

Let me restate the argument:

Requiring interoperability promotes user choice and prevents lock-in. Instead of messaging apps acting as walled gardens or closed networks, interoperability allows users on different platforms to communicate, rather than being siloed. This gives users more freedom in choosing apps based on features, design, etc., rather than being forced to use the same platform as their contacts.

Requiring interoperability encourages competition and innovation. Interoperability lowers switching costs for users. This puts competitive pressure on platforms to constantly improve and add new features to retain users. It also levels the playing field for new entrants who can interconnect with dominant incumbents. Overall, this spurs innovation across the messaging ecosystem.  It is a defense against being abused by monopoly companies and their lobbyists.

Requiring interoperability improves the user experience, enabling exciting new use cases like unified messaging across multiple networks. Users can manage conversations with their full contact list in one place, rather than having fragmented discussions across disconnected apps. This makes messaging simpler, more seamless and intuitive.

Requiring interoperability promotes inclusion and equity. Lack of interoperability can exclude some demographics from conversations if they do not use all the dominant platforms du jour. Interoperability enables easier communication between all users regardless of socioeconomic status or technical savviness. This promotes more equitable access to digital communication tools.

Requiring interoperability can enables new functionalities and new growth areas like cross-platform payments, multimedia sharing, read receipts etc. Developers can build higher-level services on top of interconnected networks, like AI-based language translation between messaging apps. This could create richer, more functional messaging experiences.

Overall, even though mandating interoperability does place some minor burdens on messaging platforms, the benefits for users, competition and innovation outweigh these costs. This is why thoughtful regulation to require interoperability is beneficial, and the EU should continue to do what it does well - i.e. improve the lives of their citizens and strengthening its democratic credibility, while ignoring the siren voices of greedy corporations and their acolytes.
What you said is very idealistic. As I said before, just be careful things don't backfire on you, and become the burden you seek to avoid. You have to be VERY VERY VERY VERY careful in what you do, because if there is one thing humans, every pretty dumb ones, are great at is stumbling on workarounds.
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #755 on: September 08, 2023, 07:45:16 pm »

What you said is very idealistic. As I said before, just be careful things don't backfire on you, and become the burden you seek to avoid. You have to be VERY VERY VERY VERY careful in what you do, because if there is one thing humans, every pretty dumb ones, are great at is stumbling on workarounds.

I'm an optimist, for sure!

Overcoming the inertia and business incentives that currently favor walled gardens will likely require regulatory action, as happened with telecom. Hopefully lawmakers are able to develop smart, pro-competition policies that move us toward more universal, seamless communication while still allowing space for ongoing innovation. Achieving the right balance is tricky but has huge potential upside for consumers if done well.

There's always scope for politicians to mess things up, of course.  Shouldn't stop us setting expectations, though.  What are we paying those guys for???   :D



 

Online coppice

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #756 on: September 08, 2023, 08:35:33 pm »

What you said is very idealistic. As I said before, just be careful things don't backfire on you, and become the burden you seek to avoid. You have to be VERY VERY VERY VERY careful in what you do, because if there is one thing humans, every pretty dumb ones, are great at is stumbling on workarounds.

I'm an optimist, for sure!

Overcoming the inertia and business incentives that currently favor walled gardens will likely require regulatory action, as happened with telecom. Hopefully lawmakers are able to develop smart, pro-competition policies that move us toward more universal, seamless communication while still allowing space for ongoing innovation. Achieving the right balance is tricky but has huge potential upside for consumers if done well.

There's always scope for politicians to mess things up, of course.  Shouldn't stop us setting expectations, though.  What are we paying those guys for???   :D
3G cellular started with massive walled gardens, and they fell away without any regulation. They just made 3G so ******* useless, the uptake was horrible. As soon as someone broke ranks and tried to get some business with a "straightforward access to the internet" model, everyone else had to fall in line, or see their huge investments in networks go to waste.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2023, 01:04:57 pm by coppice »
 

Offline madires

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #757 on: September 22, 2023, 09:52:38 am »
Sonos servers down, not working, or all music services disappeared? You're not alone, issue acknowledged: https://piunikaweb.com/2023/09/21/sonos-servers-down-not-working-or-music-services-disappeared/

Bonus fact: Sonos removed the feature to stream music locally from your Android device in May 2023.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #758 on: September 29, 2023, 09:15:52 am »
First numbers on the impact of Microsoft's cloud signing key disaster:
- Chinese hackers stole emails from US State Dept in Microsoft breach, Senate staffer says (https://www.reuters.com/world/us/chinese-hackers-stole-60000-emails-us-state-department-microsoft-hack-senate-2023-09-27/)

60k emails of 10 State Department accounts copied. It's just the tip of the iceberg as there are about 25 affected organizations.
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #759 on: September 30, 2023, 06:30:30 am »
To that end, in late 2024 we will wind down the Jamboard whiteboarding app as well as continue with the previously planned end of support for Google Jamboard devices.

https://workspace.google.com/blog/product-announcements/next-phase-digital-whiteboarding

When a device reaches Auto Update Expiration (AUE), it means that the product model is considered obsolete and automatic software updates from Google are no longer guaranteed.

https://support.google.com/a/answer/7374455

 

Online PlainName

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #760 on: September 30, 2023, 08:39:58 am »
I don't see the problem with that Google jamboard thing. They are simply saying they're not going to support it after that date. AFAICS they aren't saying they will brick it on that date and prevent it working, so you can keep using it as-is until the hardware disssolves or something. That's massively better than, say, Windows where Microsoft are doing their best to fuck over W7 users, or Sonos where they deliberately prevent the perfectly good things from working at all.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #761 on: November 27, 2023, 12:57:28 pm »
In case you use Google Drive:
- Google Drive files suddenly disappeared. The Drive literally went back to condition in May 2023 (https://support.google.com/drive/thread/245055606/google-drive-files-suddenly-disappeared-the-drive-literally-went-back-to-condition-in-may-2023?hl=en)

From the support team:
Quote
I am continously tracking this case and to be transparent with you we totally agree now that you are not the only customer affected by this behavior.

EDIT:
The URL above has vansihed into thin air but there's still some media coverage:
- Some Google Drive for Desktop users are missing months of files (https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/27/23978591/google-drive-desktop-data-loss-bug-files-missing-investigation)
- Google Drive users say Google lost their files; Google is investigating (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/11/google-drive-is-investigating-sync-issues-as-users-complain-of-lost-files/)
- Google Drive misplaces months' worth of customer files (https://www.theregister.com/2023/11/27/google_drive_files_disappearing/)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2023, 02:11:20 pm by madires »
 
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Offline SilverSolder

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #762 on: December 01, 2023, 12:09:27 pm »
In case you use Google Drive:
- Google Drive files suddenly disappeared. The Drive literally went back to condition in May 2023 (https://support.google.com/drive/thread/245055606/google-drive-files-suddenly-disappeared-the-drive-literally-went-back-to-condition-in-may-2023?hl=en)

From the support team:
Quote
I am continously tracking this case and to be transparent with you we totally agree now that you are not the only customer affected by this behavior.

Sounds like they had an issue and had to restore from an earlier backup?
 

Offline Jeroen3

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #763 on: December 01, 2023, 01:10:13 pm »
"This page is no longer available"  :-DD
 
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Online coppice

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #764 on: December 01, 2023, 01:34:30 pm »
In case you use Google Drive:
- Google Drive files suddenly disappeared. The Drive literally went back to condition in May 2023 (https://support.google.com/drive/thread/245055606/google-drive-files-suddenly-disappeared-the-drive-literally-went-back-to-condition-in-may-2023?hl=en)

From the support team:
Quote
I am continously tracking this case and to be transparent with you we totally agree now that you are not the only customer affected by this behavior.

Sounds like they had an issue and had to restore from an earlier backup?
It would be fun if a bank did that. :)
 

Offline madires

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #765 on: December 01, 2023, 02:15:46 pm »
"This page is no longer available"  :-DD

What a surprise! >:D I've updated my post with URLs of some media reports. Google's offical response on this issue: https://support.google.com/drive/thread/245861992/drive-for-desktop-v84-0-0-0-84-0-4-0-sync-issue
 

Offline Karel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #766 on: December 03, 2023, 09:20:18 am »
As of 31 December 2023, due to our content licensing arrangements with content providers,
you will no longer be able to watch any of your previously purchased Discovery content and
the content will be removed from your video library.

We sincerely thank you for your continued support.


https://www.playstation.com/en-us/legal/psvideocontent/

 

Offline Karel

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #767 on: December 03, 2023, 09:22:16 am »
"If buying doesn’t mean ownership,
then pirating isn’t stealing."


 :popcorn:
 
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Offline audiotubes

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #768 on: December 03, 2023, 04:45:22 pm »
I didn't read the whole thread so maybe it was said already. But, maybe the worst part of cloud is the intentional enablement of endless blame-shifting.

For example last year I had to file some papework with a law office which we did business with for more than 5 years. The most recent time, they asked me to upload it to a cloud provider.

I looked into the provider and asked one of the experts in my office who deals daily with webapp security and he identified some serious security issues with the provider's setup. I notified the law office and they dismissed my concern and his very specific and direct points as politely as they could.

Then a smart guy in my office said, "Probably, they don't care. The main thing is when something goes wrong now, it won't be their fault." I checked that idea with another lawyer and he confirmed the suspicion.

I expect things to get a lot worse in this regard and not get better.

In the end, I refused to use the cloud service and sent them the documents directly. But I don't know long I'll get away with that old-fashioned approach and I have no idea if the next thing they did was upload everything I sent, to their cloud provider...

Well, at least I have the emails where we objected and warned them.
I have taken apart more gear than many people. But I have put less gear back together than most people. So there is still room for improvement.
 

Offline madires

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #769 on: February 09, 2024, 12:36:51 pm »
This time it's Amazon's Echo Connect: https://www.reddit.com/r/amazonecho/comments/1am1e2b/echo_connect_discontinued/. Affected users can get a gift card with a value of 10 bucks for their 'inconvenience'. E-waste after just 5 years.
 
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Online tom66

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Re: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...
« Reply #770 on: February 09, 2024, 12:41:10 pm »
The other half purchased a Ring doorbell a few years back.  I think it was £40 up-front, and the subscription for the "premium" features was £25 a year, which wasn't too bad.  It's now gone up to £50 a year for the same functions, mad inflation that!   It's getting binned and replaced with a PoE smart doorbell.  I really cannot stand this crap from companies any more.
 

Offline Karel

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Gigaset Smart Home/Care discontinues its services as of 29 March 2024

The cloud services of the Smart Home/Care products must therefore be discontinued as of 29 March 2024.
As a result, the apps for the Smart Home/Care products and the networked sensors and devices will no longer be usable.

We regret the inconvenience caused by this decision.


https://www.gigaset.com/hq_en/cms/smart-home-overview.html


 

Offline madires

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Gigaset went bankrupt and was bought by VTech in January, IIRC.
 

Online coppice

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Gigaset went bankrupt and was bought by VTech in January, IIRC.
Was Gigaset spun out from Siemens?
 

Offline madires

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Yep, that's right! BTW, Vtech also owns Snom (VoIP telephones).
 


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