Author Topic: Proof that software as service/cloud based, will never work for long term ...  (Read 140587 times)

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Offline Bud

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Google Dropcam, Dropcam Pro, and Nest Secure stop working on April 8th

https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/2/24119040/google-dropcam-nest-secure-support-ends-april-8th
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Messtechniker

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Note that you could also be screwed with full licenses if the software uses some kind of online activation. If a regular check is required by your particular software, and the server gets permanently unaccessible, you could get eventually "kicked out".

That's precisely why in addition to the paid software, I used to have a cracked version at hand, just in case. In practice I never had to fall back on cracked software. Moreover, today there is a lot of free software for almost everything (Windows). But you may need quite some time to find it.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2024, 05:01:19 am by Messtechniker »
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Online SiliconWizard

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Damn, Google is dropping Dropcam.
 

Online coppice

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Damn, Google is dropping Dropcam.
And Google was puzzled why their fancy cloud services wouldn't take off until they hired someone who stripped it down, and offered a bare bones service equivalent to all the other cloud providers. Who would trust something to Google that they can't easily swap out for another provider when Google kills it? They kill almost everything. They're just a murderous bunch of psychopaths.
 

Offline madires

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I 'd guess that many don't know that we already had cloud services / SaaS in the early 2000s. But it wasn't successful back then. A typical setup was based on Citrix plus standard applications the customer could rent. The customer used inexpensive thin clients or normal PCs (fat client) to access the platform. Companies offering that service were called ASPs (Application Service Provider).
 

Offline paulca

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Right now the software industry are not hiring based on education, qualifications, skills or experience.  Quite the contrary.  Factor that in.
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  STM32F411RE+ESP32+TFT for home IoT (NoT) projects.  Child's advent xmas countdown toy.  Digital audio routing board.
 

Offline paulca

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Things that will come in the future.

1.  As has happened repeatedly, the "backend" processing will be moved to the users CPU.  In particular using "customers" hardware to run and help train AI models.  This little business idea will make someone a lot of money by saving the cloud AI providers lots of electricity bill.

You don't want that?  Best read the T&C closely from now on.

You become the cloud, your PC becomes part of the cloud, runs as a node in the cloud, is used by others in the cloud.  All sharing the electric bill for the processing.

Why is this likely?  Well, things like this are going to happen more and more often in the next few years as AI model training continues to exponentially increase power demands in DCs.
https://www.theregister.com/2024/04/09/aws_resource_restrictions/

2.  "Cloud burst".  AI models begin to correlate data leaks between the big providers and small providers alike.  Names, addresses, DoBs, full personal history breakdowns, payment/financial details/account, medical records, home spyware data, everything that is in the cloud will be "correlated" into a single AI LLM which everyone and anyone with access can "100% Dox/Biography" anyone on the internet, returning all information that people have provided to the cloud.... in one place.

This will cause a complete upheaval in society when everyones dirty secrets get revealed to everyone.
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  STM32F411RE+ESP32+TFT for home IoT (NoT) projects.  Child's advent xmas countdown toy.  Digital audio routing board.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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This will cause a complete upheaval in society when everyones dirty secrets get revealed to everyone.
No, it's not that; it is not the "dirty secrets" that will bite ordinary people.

It is the utter transparency of personal limitations and details we cannot compensate for, and their exploitation by most/all companies, that will bite ordinary people.  Stuff like "our HR department observed that you have bought acid reflux medication N times this year, and we have decided you will be better served by working for a less competitive and stressful company; good bye and good luck."

Nobody is interested in the dirty secrets.  It is really any detail that someone believes they can use to minimize their own risk or maximize their monetization of you.
 
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Online coppice

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I 'd guess that many don't know that we already had cloud services / SaaS in the early 2000s. But it wasn't successful back then. A typical setup was based on Citrix plus standard applications the customer could rent. The customer used inexpensive thin clients or normal PCs (fat client) to access the platform. Companies offering that service were called ASPs (Application Service Provider).
AWS was started in 2002, using the term web services, and as the compute people noticed the telecoms people using the term "cloud" a lot, AWS started calling their offering cloud computing in 2006. So, I think we all know there were cloud services in the early 2000s. Cloud like services have been widespread since the shared data centre services of the late 1990s. Its mostly the names which change.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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This will cause a complete upheaval in society when everyones dirty secrets get revealed to everyone.
No, it's not that; it is not the "dirty secrets" that will bite ordinary people.

It is the utter transparency of personal limitations and details we cannot compensate for, and their exploitation by most/all companies, that will bite ordinary people.  Stuff like "our HR department observed that you have bought acid reflux medication N times this year, and we have decided you will be better served by working for a less competitive and stressful company; good bye and good luck."

Nobody is interested in the dirty secrets.  It is really any detail that someone believes they can use to minimize their own risk or maximize their monetization of you.

Agreed. Well, as you said, it's *any* detail. Of course, that can include some "dirty secrets", if those can be used against someone for some "profit".
The crux of the matter being that humans, on average, are just looking for opportunities, and the opportunities for someone are, not always, thankfully, but often detrimental to another.
So this unsollicited share of personal data *is* a danger to individuals, all of us, because it's a gigantic pool of opportunities that only very few won't want to tap into.
 

Offline paulca

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"Dirty secrets" was maybe the wrong words.

Peoples whiter than snow secrets will be out.  This is already happening in the states with things like psuedo-medical records being harvested by medical insurance companies.  Car insurance companies are tapping into data being output by cars as people drive them.

The big issue that isn't actually immediately obvious is that a large portion of the data will be wrong.  If your son borrows your car and drives it aggressively, then YOUR insurance goes up next year, not his.  Your car.

If you are role playing with friends on social media and you say, "I'm the one with x, y, z, disease", which ends up being flagged on your health insurance policy data and your health insurance doubles for an unknown reason.

Much like a map will help you be lost, the moment you point at it and say ,"We are here" and you are wrong, you are lost.  When people start using mass aggregated/correlated AI data this will be come the norm.  It won't be what you have actually done, or who you actually are, it will be upto what the AI came up with about you.  Right or wrong.

GDPR et. al. will be virtually powerless.  "Right to be forgotten" will only work when there is a clear lineage back to the sources of the data.  Which in current AI is not possible. (To provide credits for all data gathered).
"What could possibly go wrong?"
Current Open Projects:  STM32F411RE+ESP32+TFT for home IoT (NoT) projects.  Child's advent xmas countdown toy.  Digital audio routing board.
 
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Online Marco

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"Right to be forgotten" will only work when there is a clear lineage back to the sources of the data.  Which in current AI is not possible.
The judge might reply "not my problem" to that last part.
 

Online SiliconWizard

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Offline Nominal Animal

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https://www.techspot.com/news/101534-ubisoft-wishes-gamers-would-accept-not-owning-their.html

Yeah, it's only games here, but the same BS is now everywhere.
And still, a lot of people think the "Yu vill ovn notzing, and be happy" is just a "conspiracy theory".

Rent-seeking and maximizing the monetization of all human activities is nothing but a way to make lots of profit.  If the societies allow it, it will be done.  I don't understand the association with "conspiracy" at all, because if allowed, it makes perfect sense to make a profit this way.

(I cannot do that, because my own ethics/morals will not allow me to.  Nor do I want to live in a society that allows that, for the same reason.  Many humans have different ethics and morals, and when in a position of power, push everyone else to accept theirs.  It is quite natural and obvious, in my opinion; no nefariousness or evil or conspiracies involved at all.)
 

Online Kim Christensen

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And still, a lot of people think the "Yu vill ovn notzing, and be happy" is just a "conspiracy theory".

It becomes a conspiracy when the people quoting that line ramble on about the WEF, governments, Soros, etc... When in reality, "Yu vill ovn notzing, and be happy" is simply a corporate wet dream.
Usually those same people also support less regulation and less taxes for corporations.  :palm:


 
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Offline Karel

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Command Injection and Backdoor Account in D-Link NAS Devices:

D-Link US recommends that D-Link devices that have reached EOL/EOS be retired and replaced

 :palm:

https://supportannouncement.us.dlink.com/security/publication.aspx?name=SAP10383

https://github.com/netsecfish/dlink

 

Offline madires

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D-Link is known to EoL their devices early. Many receive security fixes for only about two years.
 

Offline Nominal Animal

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And still, a lot of people think the "Yu vill ovn notzing, and be happy" is just a "conspiracy theory".
It becomes a conspiracy when the people quoting that line ramble on about the WEF, governments, Soros, etc... When in reality, "Yu vill ovn notzing, and be happy" is simply a corporate wet dream.
No, a conspiracy theory is one that claims some kind of a conspiracy in the first place.  Just because an idea sounds outrageous to you does not make it a "conspiracy theory".

WEF is nothing but a lobbying organization for the 1,000 largest companies on the planet, its member companies paying their dues and funding the organization.  WEF is quite open about it, too; "the world is best managed by a self-selected coalition of multinational corporations, governments and civil society organizations".  The fact that they're grooming politicians into the same world view is a fact, not a conspiracy theory; they're proud of it.  And why not?  They're not doing anything illegal, much less evil; they genuinely believe it is for the greater good.  Yes, they do believe in abolishing private property for ordinary citizens, but that is because they do not believe ordinary citizens to be competent enough to own things.  That is not a secret either.

George Soros is a multibillionaire who uses his funds for similar purposes, and perfectly openly.

So no.  Nothing about those rambles is "conspiracy"; there is no conspiracy there, it is all in the open, with the aforementioned people and organizations truly believing they're doing it for the greater good.  They believe that societies where ownership is limited to corporations and governments and civil society organizations, with individual people only renting from them, are better than the ones we have right now.  It is not a lie or secret, they truly and openly believe so and say so.

Any dislike against the aforementioned is purely based on moral or ethical grounds.  I do think people do not make this clear enough, though.

It would be a conspiracy if they include an actual conspiracy, be it based on ethnicity, stuff like lizard people or aliens or secret societies, or any kind of secret purpose, or perhaps allegations of systematic illegality or somesuch.  I have not seen any evidence of that, except perhaps by George Soros as to exactly why he is funding some organizations and not others, but he is free to support any legally operating organization he wants without explaining why he is doing so, so no conspiracies there either.

Usually those same people also support less regulation and less taxes for corporations.  :palm:
Too many humans don't think for themselves, and just believe what they're told, because it is easier.  It is why agitprop is so effective.

We do need the commercial competition, but we must set the boundaries on monetization and exploitation.  Housing/real estate is a perfect example.  Renting for a few years while saving up, studying, et cetera, is useful.  Yet, owning your own home is usually the start of building wealth; it just requires capital.  Controlling that at the very local level via zoning laws and similar makes sense, because it balances the two in the long term.  Unfortunately, it also means those responsible for zoning have a lot of power, and are at risk of corruption.

Thus, I claim that the best working societies are always in dynamic balance, with the pivot point continuously shifting around a bit.

To circle back to the topic of this thread, I believe we are seeing the increase in rent-seeking behaviour simply because that has become more widely accepted in society, from a moral/ethical standpoint.  It is not a good vs. evil type of situation, because it is way too complex to put in such simplistic terms.

The reason I oppose rent-seeking and maximal monetization is simple: those like myself who cannot accept excessive rent-seeking and exploitation from a moral or ethical standpoint cannot live in a society based on profit maximization; but those who can live in a society based on profit maximization can easily live in a society that limits it on moral or ethical grounds.  The only difference is how far their profit maximization can/is allowed to reach.  I also believe that a society with limits along my particular morals allows more people to reach happiness and live fulfilling and longer lives than a profit-maximizing one, but at the core, it indeed is just a moral or ethical question/statement.
 
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Online Kim Christensen

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WEF is nothing but a lobbying organization for the 1,000 largest companies on the planet, its member companies paying their dues and funding the organization.

I agree. But denial/obfuscation of that fact IS one of the "conspiracies" of the right.
They don't blame corporations. They point their fingers elsewhere away from most billionaires (vaguely at "elites", scientists, etc) and support the capitalist profit motive 100% without limit.
But anyway, this can get derailed into politics pretty quick so that's all I'll say for now.
 

Online Marco

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It becomes a conspiracy when the people quoting that line ramble on about the WEF, governments, Soros
Soros is just a misunderstood old school democracy utopian ... an educated people ruling themselves, freedom, rarah.

WEF are just chockablock neo-feudal elitists though, completely opposite to Soros. Just listen to them talk, they can't help themselves to talk about the global elite as some magnanimous super-geniuses who can help the world forward if only we would let them.

It's just hard to consider it a conspiracy when they are so totally incompetent at disguising their paternalist attitudes and how much they despise any group of people other than the global elite having any power. Also they overestimate their power almost as much as the conspiracy theorists, they get together for their Davos soiree and try to peddle influence while some orange man or slav midget acquires more power than all of them put together and refuses to be influenced.

PS. about the elite thing, this is literally from the good old WEF Great Narrative Meeting "The good news is the elites across the world trust each other more and more, so we can come together and design and do beautiful things together. The bad news is that the majority of people trust that elite less. So, we can lead, but if people aren't following, we're not going to get to where we want to go." Money'd idiots.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2024, 08:28:09 pm by Marco »
 

Offline EPAIII

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I have not read pages 2 - 31 of this thread so what I have to say may already have been discussed. But here goes anyway.

ONE WORD: FreeCAD

Let the commendations begin! I am sure they will come from all corners. But...

It resides on my hard drive.
My models reside on my hard drive.
In fact, I keep two versions of it on my hard drive, just in case.

I KNOW all the reasons against it. The biggest is everyone just HAS TO HAVE THE LATEST AND THE GREATEST. That's it. "My dad can beat up your dad!" Or, with Fusion or whatever your favorite program may be, I can turn out more designs, FASTER, and they will be sexier. "My program can beat up your program!"

"Sure FreeCAD can do things, but it has so many problems." "I can't waste my time with 'work-arounds' all the time."

But just how good is a model that you can't access?

I have an old 2D CAD program that I have used for over 20 years. The company seems to have gone belly up. But I have the last version that they offered and can open every file that I ever made with it. EVERY ONE, going back over 20 years. It never was the latest and greatest, at least not according to some. But it worked then and it still works now. Just to prove a point, I just opened a 26 year old file, dated 6/6/98. It looks just as it did when I drew it back then.

FreeCAD may not have all the bells and whistles as the latest and greatest 3D programs, but IT DOES WORK.

And before you instantly trash it, ask yourselves this: If all the people who are spending thousands of dollars for "the latest and greatest" were to use and SUPPORT FreeCAD with even 1% of that money and if those with coding experience were to donate even 1 hour of time each month, just how long could it's problems last? And if it were made 100%, read and write compatible with every other file format out there, then any model made anywhere could be brought in and then either worked on or exported to any other program.

And all of that with a program that is completely free, open source, and claimed to remain available to all.

And consider, there is no reason why someone could not work with TWO different 3D programs at the same time. At least until FreeCAD is no longer the second-rate one.

But, here come all of the NAY SAYERS. So, instead of finding a way to make something work, just blast out all the reasons why it won't. And case settled! Now, where were we? Oh, yes, Cloud based systems will never work and we hate them. But will keep using them anyway.

Well, I will be one who IS doing something.
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 
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Offline madires

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Nothing wrong with that! I switched from Eagle to KiCad and keep the old Eagle version for opening old designs.
 

Offline Karel

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Same here, still using Eagle V7.70 for older designs. New designs are done in KiCad.

In case you get a symbol lookup error: ./eagle: undefined symbol: CRYPTO_num_locks
copy libssl.so.1.0.0 and libcrypto.so.1.0.0 from an older distro (e.g. opensuse Leap 42.3) and copy them to your new distro.
Use the following command to start Eagle:

LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/path/to/libs ./eagle
 

Offline madires

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Do you remember Okta (October 2023)? Cisco's Duo has now a security incident with an MFA provider: https://app.securitymsp.cisco.com/e/es?e=2785&eid=opguvrs&elq=bd1c1886a59e40c09915b029a74be94e
 

Offline EPAIII

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Yes, KiCAD too!

I need to use a lot of time to learn a new CAD program. Life is short and mine seems shorter every day. I will never again waste that time learning a program that I do not OWN and that does not reside on my hard drive. And the designs also will be on MY hard drive. Period!
Paul A.  -   SE Texas
And if you look REAL close at an analog signal,
You will find that it has discrete steps.
 


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