Author Topic: Proxxon  (Read 10746 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline danntor

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: au
Proxxon
« on: July 21, 2012, 01:39:36 pm »
Looking into getting a Proxxon MICROMOT 50/E and just wondering what the forum has to say about it.
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2012, 02:51:07 pm »
Proxxons can be made very well,  and they have much better precision than Dremels, so it you need to do milling, or precision drilling, they are better.

The 50 series is DC and consumes 40W.  It can do most of the stuff the 100W big brothers can but at far slower rate working on harder materials; its best to buy rotary tools that are overpowered for your needs, to extend the life of the motor.  Smaller and easier on the hands.  Its seems targeted at handicrafts and carvers, working on hardnesses like wood and plastic.  It should do well for PCB repair work.

The 50/E has mixed reviews at Amazon.com, one for quality of the manufacture, and another for being underpowered.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 02:55:19 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline danntor

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: au
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2012, 04:09:11 pm »
Thanks for the reply mate. We have a Dremel at work(not too sure on the model but it has a battery pack) and I definitely agree with you on the precision side of things. Might spend some more dosh and grab its 100W brother when pay day comes around based on what you have said.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 12087
  • Country: gb
    • Mike's Electric Stuff
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2012, 04:12:45 pm »
Proxxon do some nice tools, many of which sit in an otherwise empty space between Dremel-scale stuff and DIY/machine-shop sized tools.
I have one of their mini table saws, which is a bit expensive but totally awesome.
Youtube channel:Taking wierd stuff apart. Very apart.
Mike's Electric Stuff: High voltage, vintage electronics etc.
Day Job: Mostly LEDs
 

Offline madires

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4904
  • Country: de
  • A qualified hobbyist ;)
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2012, 05:10:01 pm »
I'm drilling my PCBs with a Proxxon quite happily. Also get their drill rig if you need one.
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2012, 05:53:34 pm »
Proxxon's are really great if you want to step up from dremel...
The same power thing goes here, you wouldn't want to buy a 200W mains drill for wall drilling will you ...  :-\

If anyone needs proxxon collets send me a message, i can sell it at only 5$
 

Offline nukie

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 777
  • Country: au
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2012, 02:57:53 am »
The Proxxon MICROMOT 50/E is very well built. I used one 2 years for free hand engraving of PCB, but don't expect it to do it quickly especially when 'writing' very thin tracks on 1oz pcb. I suggest 1/2oz copper pcb for faster prototyping. I didn't buy the powersupply, I hooked it up to my D/C power supply. The AC speed controller on the Proxxon will not work with DC power supply. I run my tool at around 6V and it provides good balance. I turn it up to 12V when I need to mill alloy. Get a x,y table and a drill stand to match you have a small scale milling machine. The motor is not very powerful, you can stall the motor at certain voltage, but rotary tools are designed for speed not torque.

I love it because the little built in fan does not move air in every direction, therefore no dust is blown around so it keeps your work area clean.

I think the tool is a little bit out of balance due to the length & weight especially when holding it pencil style. Otherwise I can use it for long hours without fatigue. Don't expect this tool to perform like a mains powered tool, it's designed for lightweight and precision work. If you are patient, it will cut like the bigger brothers but requires extra time. This is a fine and very quiet tool. The motor is balanced for minimizing vibration.

The ultimate question is, what do you want to do with it? Buy the right tool for the right job.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 03:02:23 am by nukie »
 

Offline buxtronix

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 25
  • Country: 00
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2012, 10:39:11 am »
Proxxons are very good. I've got 3 of their bench tools, used for electronics related construction:

- MBS 240 bandsaw
- TBM 220 drill press
- MF 70 miller

All are made extremely well, and the precisions are very tight, eg the miller's x/y table has dial graduations to 0.05mm. I've never felt any play in the collets. A big step up from the dremel. Can't say much about their hand tools, but if their bench tools are anything to go by...

 

Offline danntor

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 13
  • Country: au
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2012, 08:31:50 am »
Main use will be to put holes in plastic boxes and such for meters,test points,etc and fixing shitty etchs. Next payday is going to be fun!
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2012, 03:59:05 pm »
Main use will be to put holes in plastic boxes
STOP. Please please! Use a cordless drill for that purpose!
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2012, 05:55:34 pm »
Enjoy.  I've been doing the same tasks with just a basic mains Dremel, the 100 or the old 275.  I use a light dimmer for a speed control; in the US the Micromot 50 cost 1.5-2x the Dremel and has less torque for this type of work, albeit you won't need much for cutting copper traces and putting holes in plastic boxes.  A Micromot could be better at this task if you need very precision cuts to a PCB, but this also requires very small and precise bits, and if the unit vibrates too much, it makes moot the value of smaller runouts Proxxon engineers into its shaft.   

If you use cordless, just some caveats:

Li-Ion chemistry has an ~ 4 year useful life, whether you use it or not.  At 2 years, you'll be down 40-50% of its mAH, at 4 years over 80%, so unless you're a heavy user, its guaranteed added expense for batteries.  Runtime at full power is limited, then you'll have to wait 1hr+ for a recharge.  Or a corded you can run it indefinitely, or until it gets too hot to hold.

if other chemistry for your drill exists  [NiCD or NiMH] , they can last longer than Li Ion, time wise, but packs are bigger and heavier, in the end, you're still stuck with battery change later on, limited runtime and waits for recharging, plus these 2 chemistries self discharge more than LiIon.





Main use will be to put holes in plastic boxes and such for meters,test points,etc and fixing shitty etchs. Next payday is going to be fun!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 05:57:14 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1020
  • Country: hu
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2012, 06:09:52 pm »
Enjoy.  I've been doing the same tasks with just a basic mains Dremel, the 100 or the old 275.  I use a light dimmer for a speed control; in the US the Micromot 50 cost 1.5-2x the Dremel and has less torque for this type of work, albeit you won't need much for cutting copper traces and putting holes in plastic boxes.  A Micromot could be better at this task if you need very precision cuts to a PCB, but this also requires very small and precise bits, and if the unit vibrates too much, it makes moot the value of smaller runouts Proxxon engineers into its shaft.   

If you use cordless, just some caveats:

Li-Ion chemistry has an ~ 4 year useful life, whether you use it or not.  At 2 years, you'll be down 40-50% of its mAH, at 4 years over 80%, so unless you're a heavy user, its guaranteed added expense for batteries.  Runtime at full power is limited, then you'll have to wait 1hr+ for a recharge.  Or a corded you can run it indefinitely, or until it gets too hot to hold.

if other chemistry for your drill exists  [NiCD or NiMH] , they can last longer than Li Ion, time wise, but packs are bigger and heavier, in the end, you're still stuck with battery change later on, limited runtime and waits for recharging, plus these 2 chemistries self discharge more than LiIon.





Main use will be to put holes in plastic boxes and such for meters,test points,etc and fixing shitty etchs. Next payday is going to be fun!

what about li-fe chemistry? charging method is the same except the voltage with some modification it can be changed
btw thanks for that info on the li-ion batteries
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2012, 06:20:07 pm »
Li-FE can be charged more but the density is terrible
How about Li-Po's?
 

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1020
  • Country: hu
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2012, 07:28:36 pm »
hell yeah! they burst in flames, even if you look at them without joy, high sustained drain at their maximum rating,slight overcharge, overdischarge, dont mention a possible short circuit in the coldress driver circuit, they swell up, burst in flames even explode... nasty little things it should be made safer then should be ok, but in todays world where things made to die in 2 years it wont happen, there is no buisness if you dont buy another one
 

Offline T4P

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3706
  • Country: sg
    • T4P
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2012, 07:38:48 pm »
hell yeah! they burst in flames, even if you look at them without joy, high sustained drain at their maximum rating,slight overcharge, overdischarge, dont mention a possible short circuit in the coldress driver circuit, they swell up, burst in flames even explode... nasty little things it should be made safer then should be ok, but in todays world where things made to die in 2 years it wont happen, there is no buisness if you dont buy another one

Same thing happens to Li-Ion.
 

Offline IanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9618
  • Country: us
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2012, 07:51:28 pm »
Li-Ion chemistry has an ~ 4 year useful life, whether you use it or not.  At 2 years, you'll be down 40-50% of its mAH, at 4 years over 80%, so unless you're a heavy user, its guaranteed added expense for batteries.  Runtime at full power is limited, then you'll have to wait 1hr+ for a recharge.  Or a corded you can run it indefinitely, or until it gets too hot to hold.

if other chemistry for your drill exists  [NiCD or NiMH] , they can last longer than Li Ion, time wise, but packs are bigger and heavier, in the end, you're still stuck with battery change later on, limited runtime and waits for recharging, plus these 2 chemistries self discharge more than LiIon.

With normal cordless drills I believe Li-ion batteries give more power and longer run time between charges than the equivalently sized NiCd pack. Unfortunately the Li-ion batteries cost 3x more than the NiCd ones.

Li-ion does have a shelf life, but if stored at about 50% charge it can be longer than 4 years. The 4 years down to 80% would be a worst case scenario.
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline M. András

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1020
  • Country: hu
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2012, 08:23:17 pm »
hell yeah! they burst in flames, even if you look at them without joy, high sustained drain at their maximum rating,slight overcharge, overdischarge, dont mention a possible short circuit in the coldress driver circuit, they swell up, burst in flames even explode... nasty little things it should be made safer then should be ok, but in todays world where things made to die in 2 years it wont happen, there is no buisness if you dont buy another one

Same thing happens to Li-Ion.
yes, but less likely , thats why i said li-fe batteries, same high discharge ratio. it has a little more weight, but hell i rather hold a 4kg powertool then a 2kg ticking bomb
 

Offline Spawn

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 510
  • Country: nl
  • ³²µ º'ºººº³²
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2012, 08:39:24 pm »
Everything is said about Proxxon already, I got a Proxxon bench drill and a table saw and I can only confirm what other guys said about Proxxon.

For a multi tool I am using Dremel for delicate work and Ferm for heavier work but to be honest I am looking for a Proxxon for precision work too, Dremel and Ferm vibrates way to much compared to a Proxxon, it also sits better in the hand than the others.

I wouldn’t mind to have a little Proxxon lathe and milling machine or a combination of it, but that’s whole different discussion  ;D

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2012, 09:42:03 pm »
Yes, but to use this parameter, one needs to predict usage to properly squeeze more calendar life from this chemistry.

Consider as example we are using a Dremel 8200 cordless, which is fairly well studied on the net:

http://www.coptool.com/blog/2010/06/dremel_8200_cordless_rotary_to.html

When you pull it out of storage, it will have ~ < = 50% power.  Will your current need only require such runtime?  If you need more, you must wait 90 min to charge the battery up to 100%, which still limits runtime to ~ 30min under load.  Now if one did not use down to 50% of existing power, or exhaust the 50% left in the battery in the last task, a user would ideally have to run down the battery or charge it up, to ~ 50% before storage.

So, effectively, you've replaced the convenience of cordless with the the inconvenience of managing the battery charge state and anticipating your runtime needs, to extend the calendar life.

Storage at 50% charge is most beneficial for inventory considerations, where batteries are kept awaiting sale, rather than active use.  Not only will it be kept at < 50% of full charge, but likely they'd benefit from refrigeration too.

I would guess most users charge batteries to full before storage, so when called to duty, a tool will deliver its maximum performance and runtime.  Its the same way I see most users treat laptops and cellphones, so 4 years is likely to be nominal rather than worse case.   All one need do is reflect on your own cellphone or laptop batteries and ask, how long does it last before replacement?


Li-Ion chemistry has an ~ 4 year useful life, whether you use it or not.  ..
With normal cordless drills I believe Li-ion batteries give more power ..
Li-ion does have a shelf life, but if stored at about 50% charge it can be longer than 4 years. The 4 years down to 80% would be a worst case scenario.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline saturation

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4788
  • Country: us
  • Doveryai, no proveryai
    • NIST
Re: Proxxon
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2012, 09:51:57 pm »
LiPo are derivates of Li Ion but in a polymer or gel form, so it can shaped like clay to fit any body style.  The real advance in safety and durability I see is as you say, LiFe, they have just began being sold to consumers, I first saw them ~ 2010, mail order.  I have not yet used one, but a 10 yr+ calendar life, 2x the charge-discharge cycle of Li Ion and non-explosive potential but only 70% the power density of LiIon makes it my Li of choice when I need to replace my NiMH packs [ if priced better!].

Li-FE can be charged more but the density is terrible
How about Li-Po's?
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf