Quandary: gotta have a PC at the workbench but what kind of setup is best?

[peteb2]

(Lets go with a Money no object scenario). So for years i have used your usual junkbox hack come 2nd hand PC running some sort of Windows so i can use the USB test gear i own, to hunt the interweb for free service manuals, parts data, do orders with the likes of Digikey, Mouser etc, design stuff, simulate circuit ideas, cad yadda, yadda. The current junker is my SurfacePro3 that i actually bought myself for some stupid reason wayback when. Once i found it to be beyond annoying it became my hack at the workbench... but even though it has the full compliment of accessories it's beyond pathetic using the USB ports on the external brick i/o. They maybe faulty now or they are just unreliable!  I really need something to replace the setup. I don't like the idea of a laptop because of the footprint they occupy. I've come to like dual screens (i tend to work with stuff parked on one for reference the main work displays on the other) that don't need to be huge (but for some reason now new screens are big). A small BT keyboard & BT mouse so they don't hog valuable benchtop space. Lots of USB-2 sockets & a few USB-3 to connect to my testgear & at least an SD card slot.... My workbench is not massive but it has a return so one part of its real-estate has become the PC i/o test-gear zone so to speak. 

I'm thinking minPC or NuC or something... I've just been given a boat anchor of a HP Z800workstation of all things that i know nothing about & haven't even fired up but was pulled from duty and the two top-end graphics cards removed...(it's actually very clean inside) .... the opposite sprt of hardware to ever becoming my repair bench PC.... or is it?

Love to know your ideas, & apologies if this is discussed elsewhere. I searched the forum for threads on this subject but none cut quickly to the dilemma i'm facing. TIA.

[Ian.M]

If the PC is under the bench, it really doesn't matter how big a tower case it is.  You'll need extension cables to bring up USB (at least one port direct for kit that doesn't play well with hubs + another feeding a powered hub) to the back of the bench, a wall mount for the monitor, and preferably a keyboard draw, to keep it out of the way e.g. when you are soldering.  With a draw, a wired keyboard is acceptable.  The monitor should be multi-input so it can be used when testing stuff that needs one (if you have a second screen, the primary one can be single input PC only).  It may also be worth fitting a second network card and bringing its cable up to the back of the bench as well, so you can get at various gadget config pages without loosing LAN and internet access.

[rdl]

I use a Core2Duo system I built in 2008 in a mid-tower case that sits on the floorand a wall mounted 24" monitor. It runs Windows 7. It has lots of ports. I use wired mouse and keyboard just because it doesn't bother me. The way my bench is set up all equipment that needs AC power is on shelves not on the bench top. This makes it easy to pull it out from the wall when needed and makes for the largest possible work surface. A laptop would be unacceptable to me because of how much surface area it needs.

[NiHaoMike]

Mount a rack server to the underside of the bench. Easy way to make use of space that otherwise is likely unused.

[Brumby]

My desk is a multi-purpose work space.

Underneath, I have a 2 drawer filing cabinet to the left and a regular tower PC to the right.  (IanM is right, size of the PC box is not really a concern.)

On the desk, to the right I have a 19" 12U rack which is straddled between the desk and a storage unit I made.  (I could get more space on my desk if I could move that rack further to the right, but the storage unit has a laser printer on it that SWMBO uses, so I only get a third of it.)  The rack has an old shelf unit I made sitting on top.  Nearly all my accessible TE is located in these (at the moment) and this includes my soldering and hot air stations.

At the back, I have two 27" IPS monitors, leaving the space in front for all manner of work.  Wireless keyboard and mouse - so they can be easily moved out of the way at any time.

Above the monitors is a double shelf which contains a variety of bits and pieces which include lighting and a camera for photography, label printer, some commonly used tools and so on.  This area is the subject of a complete redesign to allow for placement of some TE - such as my 3478A - to be accessible but out of the way.

I have a direct connect USB extension cable as well as a 4 port USB hub snaking up, coming out from under the rack.  The monitors have 3 inputs each - two HDMI and one VGA.  They are both connected to the PC as well as one being connected to a microserver.  There is a spare HDMI cable connected to one and a spare VGA cable connected to the other.  Since dual monitor KVM switches are so expensive (and I don't use that functionality much) I get by with manually switching inputs to the monitors.  I did, however, make myself a little USB changeover with a mechanical 4PDT switch in a box with a USB socket for the keyboard+mouse receiver, with two cables.  One goes to the main PC and the other is 1.2m that I can plug into another machine.

Behind me to the left is a storage unit for all the common bits and pieces and the other storage unit under the rack, for less frequently accessed stuff.


It is cosy - but I manage.

[Brumby]

Mount a rack server to the underside of the bench. Easy way to make use of space that otherwise is likely unused.

I mounted two LED strips rescued from a defunct TV under my desk.  Provides EXCELLENT lighting for those times when you have to go fishing for dropped items.   

[Ranayna]

If you don't need more than just surfing the web (as if that is not taxing enough nowadays), i would really just go for a Intel NUC or an AsRock Deskmini X300 with AMD CPU.
Mount it behind one of your screens or on the wall behind the screens, and it will take essentially no space at all.

[rstofer]

I would at least consider the Raspberry Pi 400.  The entire computer is in the keyboard.  I use one as a workstation and it works quite well.  Among other things, Digilent's Waveforms software works on the platform so I can use my Analog Discovery 2 to watch whatever signals I am generating on the GPIO pins.

It has 2 micro-HDMI outputs so dual monitors should be easy.  It doesn't have an audio output so plan on a USB->Audio adapter.  It's short on USB ports so plan on a powered hub.

[fourfathom]

For non-intensive work I have a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082VZP76P.  At $200 it's cheaper than a standard NUC, but has enough guts for most everyday work.  I have a bigger PC for FPGA and PCB design, simulation, compilation, etc. --  haven't tried using those tools on the little box.

[SiliconWizard]

Well, if it fits your requirements in terms of processing power (and it probably largely does), I would favor a mini-PC. The very best, as long as you don't load it too much, is a totally passively-cooled mini-PC. The big benefit in a workbench setting is that it makes zero noise AND takes in and out absolutely no dust. You literally set it and forget it.

Good cases for passive cooling of mini-PCs can be a tad expensive, but they are well worth it. You can find "standard" stuff that fit a mini-ITX motherboard. That leaves you a relatively large choice of configurations. The only thing is, I recommend not using any external graphics card. Just use a motherboard+CPU with integrated graphics, that's usually more than enough for workbench use.

[Bud]

Just saying that nowadays monitors have USB hubs built-in, so with two monitors you can have several USB ports available. It is however often a pain to use them because of where the ports are located, either underneath or on the back or on the side of the monitor casing.

[Ian.M]

.... and then a mishap with a USB device or programming pod/lead fries your monitor instead of the $20 powered hub.   If you do use USB ports on your monitor, keyboard etc. save them for known good USB sticks, dongles and low power self-contained peripherals, not for general bench use. 

With the ubiquity of black for cases, monitors and peripherals, highliting port and even power button locations with a silver Sharpie can save a lot of fumbling under the bench or round the edges of monitors.

[bd139]

I'd grab a second hand Lenovo M800 or M900 SFF PC.  i5 whatever. Chuck 32Gb of RAM and an SSD in it and. Job done. If it's of the last 3-4 generations of Intel CPU you probably won't notice much difference. They are very quiet, very reliable and stuffed full of ports. 2 front USB, 6 rear USB, gig ethernet, 2x displayport, 1x VGA, 1x serial, usual audio. Also usually come with a windows 10 pro license embedded. It'll run 2x 27" 1440p displays quite happily which can be stuffed on a second hand Knoll Sapper stand. That keeps the bench clear of monitor footprint. Put the PC under the bench.

Don't bother with the tiny PCs if you want a lab PC. They are basically laptops which have some performance constraints still as they have mobile SoC processors on them. I use a passive cooled Celeron N3010 based Lenovo M600 as a headless linux utility computer but running a desktop on it would be painful and the gruntier ones are quite irritatingly noisy.

While people love Xeon class workstations running they are extremely expensive to keep alive, drink a hell of a lot of power and make a lot of noise. To run a basic dual xeon, just the electricity bill will buy you the Lenovo box I mentioned above once a year.

[David Hess]

My solution is to place two benches at the corner of the room, leaving room in the corner between the benches large enough to hold a tower personal computer case tall enough to mount one of the monitors on top as well as associated gear.

[NiHaoMike]

While people love Xeon class workstations running they are extremely expensive to keep alive, drink a hell of a lot of power and make a lot of noise. To run a basic dual xeon, just the electricity bill will buy you the Lenovo box I mentioned above once a year.

Those old dual Xeon platforms aren't great for 24/7 operation unless warming up the room is a welcome side effect. But for occasional operation as a test PC, they're often available for really cheap which is what matters in that case.

[rdl]

What do you guys think of this? I'm trying to resist, mainly because I don't really need it...

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-gb-bri3-10110/p/N82E16856164150

[bd139]

While people love Xeon class workstations running they are extremely expensive to keep alive, drink a hell of a lot of power and make a lot of noise. To run a basic dual xeon, just the electricity bill will buy you the Lenovo box I mentioned above once a year.

Those old dual Xeon platforms aren't great for 24/7 operation unless warming up the room is a welcome side effect. But for occasional operation as a test PC, they're often available for really cheap which is what matters in that case.

I wouldn’t bother myself. The newer desktops gave about the same amount of aggregate whack as the older cheaper xeons for the same price.

[Johnny10]

I have 4 HP Z800 series machines in my lab.
Z800's Z820 Z840

They are big, heavy and are very picky about memory.
Very capable machines that will handle all sorts of storage SAS or SATA and built in RAID.

I only hate when I have to move them or open them up to change cards.
I run my GPIB through one of them.

They are cheap, these one time expensive Computers like Server computers are Cheap.
LGA 1366 CPUs are 20 dollars and under.
Built to last forever.

Z800 series are Dual CPU machines.
Look for low wattage CPU's and they won't heat up the room too much.
And they are quiet.

[David Hess]

I wouldn’t bother myself. The newer desktops gave about the same amount of aggregate whack as the older cheaper xeons for the same price.

Xeons, and the AMD Threadripper and EPYC, have the virtue of more PCIe lanes to support more expansion slots.  When I built my Ryzen workstation last year, I had to specifically look to find a motherboard with a x8/x8/x4 PCIe slot arrangement.

[bd139]

I don’t think I’ve used any more than an i3’s worth of PCIe recently even on workstation builds. Only thing is in servers with lots of DAS enterprise SSDs which is a notable and large exception to what a workstation usually consists of as they usually cost house sized amounts of money.

If you need processing it’s waaaay cheaper to rent it from Amazon if you can as you’re paying by the minute.

My main workstation is a 16gb laptop. Anything that doesn’t fit gets sent to Amazon.

[tautech]

Pete, drop by for a coffee and chat and have a squiz at my PC setups not that they’re anything special but there’s a few ideas that might be of interest to you.
I will add the bench you are to work with really determines what style of PC suits it best.
Wireless keyboard is a must have ! Mouse not so much unless you can find one that doesn’t eat batteries.

[duckduck]

If you don't need more than just surfing the web (as if that is not taxing enough nowadays), i would really just go for a Intel NUC or an AsRock Deskmini X300 with AMD CPU.
Mount it behind one of your screens or on the wall behind the screens, and it will take essentially no space at all.

Amen to this. Both monitors and mini-PCs can use VESA mounts. Not endorsing this company, but they have a nice description of the standards:

https://www.ergotron.com/en-us/support/vesa-standard

[bd139]

If you mount the monitor and a PC on a VESA mount then it will encroach on your desk footprint and you’ll need to sit further back. Not generally a good win if you ask me.

I’ve got a single 27” on a VESA mount stand which is fully articulated and rotates and goes nearly flush to the wall. Knoll Sapper variety.

[deadlylover]

I like the ultra small PC idea, Serve The Home has done a great series on them. If you look on eBay you should search for "HP Mini", "Lenovo Tiny", "Dell Micro". If your needs are modest then a quad core Skylake era machine is only a few hundred dollars and you can always repurpose them as a media centre PC and such (or give to a relative/friend for a basic office PC).

A monitor arm is absolutely fantastic to help reclaim valuable bench space. I used to scoff at the idea of spending say $100 on an arm but it makes a huge difference being able to reposition the monitor if you're working on something huge. You can often find a VESA mount as well for the ultra small PC's.

Great thing about those tiny PC's is the low idle power usage, usually in the 8-12W range, so you don't feel that guilty for leaving them on while collecting data or controlling instruments. I do have a load of Z820 workstations and the ~70W idle is just so wasteful.

[tautech]

I like the ultra small PC idea, Serve The Home has done a great series on them. If you look on eBay you should search for "HP Mini", "Lenovo Tiny", "Dell Micro". If your needs are modest then a quad core Skylake era machine is only a few hundred dollars and you can always repurpose them as a media centre PC and such (or give to a relative/friend for a basic office PC).

A monitor arm is absolutely fantastic to help reclaim valuable bench space. I used to scoff at the idea of spending say $100 on an arm but it makes a huge difference being able to reposition the monitor if you're working on something huge. You can often find a VESA mount as well for the ultra small PC's.

Great thing about those tiny PC's is the low idle power usage, usually in the 8-12W range, so you don't feel that guilty for leaving them on while collecting data or controlling instruments. I do have a load of Z820 workstations and the ~70W idle is just so wasteful.

Except they lack enough USB ports.
Using 6 of 9 available constantly here yet the MB headers can support another 2.
Never underestimate the grunt required when running a decent PCB Cad program like Altium or even the old Protel on something not up to the task and getting 30-60s boot times. 
Running a 3.4G i3 here and that's sufficient but certainly wouldn't want anything slower however if you just want to surf to find datasheets you can get away much with less.
For anything serious you need at least dual monitor support and preferably 3 so you can display CAD schematics, PCB layout and datasheets all at the same time.