The Re-birth of the Electronics Hobby

[ivaylo]

  I didn't claim majority, just "many".

Oh no, no, you don't know how right you are...

There are frequent new members to this forum that introduce themselves as having "rekindled interest" in electronics after many years (decades) of forgetting about it.

Very astute observation indeed. Noticed it myself and I am one of those you describe...

[prenato]

But I think you're underestimating just how powerful the raspberry pi has become. From my interest in the Pi, I've since built my own Irdium + GPS + GSM tracker backed by an arduino with a focus on low power. So, again, yes, I guess I'm an advanced Lego builder. But from this interest I'm slowly going deeper and deeper.

I know how powerfull a Raspberry Pi is , actually that is my whole point. It is so powerfull I have absolutely no use for it for my personal use
But seriously let me explain a bit further. The electronics hobby as I know it is first making stuff you don't need as a kid to exploit all possibilities and make yourself familiar with the components. My generation started with the electronic dice PCB's as an example and the electronics boxes with 100 projects.
Starting from basics how do those components function.
Later on the whole exercise of the hobby is identifying a problem and then making a design, selecting the right components (in my generation for digital designs the 74HC and CMOS4000 series) and breadboarding and testing the design. Then came the microcontroller and it was easier to let that handle all non real time aspects of the problem instead of doing it in discrete hardware components, thus born the embedded software.
Still a lot of external components had to be choosen since the microcontroller itself was nothing more then that. Not many peripherals, so search for the ADC/DAC you need etc. Everybody wrote their own code, little sharing. Everyone had to read the datasheet and really understand what was going on and why some decisions were made.

To put it black/white, nowadays someone orders an Arduino and PSU, downloads some code from the net, installs, runs, if it doesn't work right away starts bitching on a forum asking why it doesn't work and wants ready made answers so it works. Not to explore how it works, why it didn't work. This is what I meant with I am unsure if there is a re-birth or just a lot of people that read they can do something and go that way, for instance the mediaplayer on the raspberry pi. Plug Install and Play not much thinking needed there, so those people I would not consider electronic hobbieists. Or would everybody with a PC be called an electronic hobbieist, if that is the definition ok.

On the other hand you show real interest in the matter, are on this forum, probably contribute, read and learn, even switching you curricullum, so good for you and you are not in the above category. So enjoy and start learning also some basics cause some day you are going to need it to solve an issue 

The re-birth of the hobby is not the same as the re-enactment of the hobby. Let's face it: it will never be the same as when we did it a few decades back; one could argue it shouldn't be the same. There were no accessible microcontroller development systems when I enterd the hobby, so naturally we were using discrete components, more "analoguish" circuits etc. Today, many things we were doing discretely are better handled in a microcontroller. There will be always people that eventually will dig deeper into the components and analog circuitry, but that's no longer the entry point into the hobby.

[BravoV]

@prenato, may be you should launch another thread with age pooling "only" for enthusiasts and hobbyist, it will be interesting to see the demographic. 

[Bored@Work]

But I think you're underestimating just how powerful the raspberry pi has become.
...

I know how powerfull a Raspberry Pi is , actually that is my whole point. It is so powerfull I have absolutely no use for it for my personal use
...

The re-birth of the hobby is not the same as the re-enactment of the hobby.

But re-enacting something else doesn't me it is the electronics hobby reloaded. Programming a Pi is re-enacting the home computer tinkering times. Great times, but ironically the rise of home computing massively contributed to the downfall of electronics as a hobby.

Sure, we have to buy more modules, but when it degrades to only buying modules, screwing them together (no soldering required), downloading a bit of code from the Internet, then it isn't electronics for me. It is just buying modules.

[FJV]

Is buying a module really all that different from using a IC designed for a task and adding a few passive components to it as indicated in the datasheet.

You could even say it is a step backwards "having to program" your own IC when you can use one with everything you need "ready made" on it.

For instance having to program your own voltage regulator versus using a 723 IC.

[Kjelt]

The re-birth of the hobby is not the same as the re-enactment of the hobby. Let's face it: it will never be the same as when we did it a few decades back; one could argue it shouldn't be the same. There were no accessible microcontroller development systems when I enterd the hobby, so naturally we were using discrete components, more "analoguish" circuits etc. Today, many things we were doing discretely are better handled in a microcontroller. There will be always people that eventually will dig deeper into the components and analog circuitry, but that's no longer the entry point into the hobby.

I agree that people today starting should not look into the CMOS4000 and 74HCxxxx stuff, but for love sake, some do not even know what a transistor is why they need one to drive anything above 15mA with an I/O pin or even know the difference in configurations of an I/O pin between for instance pullup or floating when to choose one or the other. Not to mention an ADC which can have a lot of quircks when you don't use a correct filter and sample frequency for the input.

So to make an example to discuss I know this guy that has a model train hobby. He does not know anything about electronics (that is his own statement) but he buys ready Mitsubishi PLC's and I/O expanders and can control his entire trainsystem by programming it on a PC. He has a list of inputs (magnetic contact switches that close when a train passes by), he has outputs (relays, railroadswitches, lamps,  trainID's to control movement). He does not know what a transistor does or how he should solder one, can not make a pcb, is not able to read schematics, does not know what is inside the PLC or even vaguely how it works). He is able to solder wires together, and then use the old tape to isolate it.

So tell me, this guy buys ready made modules, connects them, programs them: does he have an electronics hobby?

Another example: a lot of radio amateurs are excellent electronic hobbieists, but someone who only buys a ready made radio transceiver and talks with it all day, nothing else: does he have an electronics hobby?

You tell me your definition of when somebody has an electronics hobby.

[AlfBaz]

As an ex muso I started off with amplifiers so mostly all analog. Eventually drifted into digital stuff when I got my hands on a couple of data books with long lists of 74 and 4000 series chips but it still felt as though I was "into" electronics. Then I stumbled upon this cool little 8 pin dip otp mcu and after a couple of years with these it no longer felt that I was "into" electronics.

As for buying modules and bolting them together is there that much difference than needing a function of some sort, sourcing an IC that does that, plonking it down on the pcb and running some lines to your mcu?

Imagine somebody without much knowledge in this field, they see 2 projects one is a bunch of cards hooked up to an arduino with all the code d/l'd from the internet that flashes a plethora of pretty lights, the other a rock steady dc power supply made up of discrete components.
Comments on the arduino: "Oooh Ahhh, that must of been hard to make, you must be really smart"
Comments on the psu: "Meh, you can do the same with a battery"

[Abstr7ct]

Each electronics period had its technologies. I believe that making interesting things from ready-to-use modules (e.g. RF transceivers) connected to a microcontroller is an electronics hobby as long as the maker knows what he's doing. I don't like the idea of limiting the scope of electronics hobby to those who build everything from discrete components and avoid using microcontrollers as a replacement to 10+ digital ICs.

If a newcomer to electronics adopted this idea, then he would probably find himself creating much less interesting things compared to other newcomers who just learned how to use a microcontroleller and how to interface it with some sensors/modules. This is a new age of electronics hobby. Either you cope with the trending technologies or live in the past thinking that you're a new Einstein who happens to be very unique to this new world just because he's reading some old and rusty datasheets.

[prenato]

[...]
So tell me, this guy buys ready made modules, connects them, programs them: does he have an electronics hobby?

Another example: a lot of radio amateurs are excellent electronic hobbieists, but someone who only buys a ready made radio transceiver and talks with it all day, nothing else: does he have an electronics hobby?

You tell me your definition of when somebody has an electronics hobby.

You bring a good point: what is the definition of an Electronics Hobbyist? I don't presume to have a good definition, but I suspect it is different today from what it was say, back in the 80s when I started on it. The electronics world has shifted more towards micro-controllers and integrated circuits and there is less focus on analog and discrete components (as much as I love those myself, that's reality). Sure kids don't learn as much about analog and basic electronics technology as a hobbyist, but on the other hand, I am impressed by the level of programming skills some of them exhibit. I wonder if back in the 80s some of the hobbyists from the 60s and 70s were saying something similar about us... "Those kids just plop a 7805 regulator on a board and don't even know how it works! In my days, I would use transistors and  zener diodes and I had to understand how it all worked!"
Times change, and so does the definition of what an Electronics hobby is, to some extent. I agree that it should be a little more than "lego bricks", but It shouldn't resemble what it was 30 years ago either.

[AlfBaz]

Either you cope with the trending technologies or live in the past thinking that you're a new Einstein who happens to be very unique to this new world just because he's reading some old and rusty datasheets.

A tad touchy aren't we?
Just because I've been doing this a long time doesn't mean I'm living in the past. If you feel intimidated "older" people with experience then that is your issue to deal with.

As for cobbling stuff together out of modules you'd almost be insane if you didn't. I do it all the time

The point I was trying to make is that just because you can spec and build up a great PC, doesn't mean you now how to turn on a multimeter and that is what I'm seeing more of, people who can put together great bits of kit but would be hard pressed to diagnose a blown fuse.

[Kjelt]

Either you cope with the trending technologies or live in the past thinking that you're a new Einstein who happens to be very unique to this new world just because he's reading some old and rusty datasheets.

Same goes the other way round, people thinking they're brilliant by putting some ready made modules together, ripping some other dude's code and bragging with it,  while not even having a clue how it all works. The net is full of (sh)it.

[Abstr7ct]

I meant no offense, AlfBaz, nor to anyone from an old school era. The only thing that I wanted to emphasize on, from my point of view, is that the definition of 'electronics hobbyist' shouldn't be limited to some kind of an elite group who happens to be very experienced with discrete electronics. You kind of questioned your belief if using 74 series chips feels like electronics, and then you disbelieved that you're still in electronics after working with a mcu. This is maybe intimidating for newcomers who I happen to be one of them.

I agree that to further learn electronics, a person shouldn't limit his solutions to a microcontroller and a couple of sensors/modules, nor to ready-to-use ICs like the 74 series. A newcomer has this project that needs a linear voltage regulator, would he just use one of the 78xx ICs or build his own regulator from discrete components? an old school hobbyist from the pre-78xx era would have a nostalgia moment seeing this 'tad' using a ready-to-use 78xx and say: 'aaaah, I remember those days when I had to build my own regulator. Kids these days use ICs but don't know how they work and think they're are hobbyists'.

[AlfBaz]

I meant no offense, AlfBaz, nor to anyone from an old school era. The only thing that I wanted to emphasize on, from my point of view, is that the definition of 'electronics hobbyist' shouldn't be limited to some kind of an elite group who happens to be very experienced with discrete electronics. You kind of questioned your belief if using 74 series chips feels like electronics, and then you disbelieved that you're still in electronics after working with a mcu. This is maybe intimidating for newcomers who I happen to be one of them.

I agree that to further learn electronics, a person shouldn't limit his solutions to a microcontroller and a couple of sensors/modules, nor to ready-to-use ICs like the 74 series. A newcomer has this project that needs a linear voltage regulator, would he just use one of the 78xx ICs or build his own regulator from discrete components? an old school hobbyist from the pre-78xx era would have a nostalgia moment seeing this 'tad' using a ready-to-use 78xx and say: 'aaaah, I remember those days when I had to build my own regulator. Kids these days use ICs but don't know how they work and think they're are hobbyists'.

It's probably my fault for going to extremes in my example. What I was trying to imply was that one person knew the black art of loop stability and the other how to solder and follow instructions

[justanothercanuck]

I gotta say, stuff like the Arduino/Pi takes out half the fun of constructing a device, because the core device is pre-built, out of the box.  Okay, sure, people can create their own "shields" or whatever, but I firmly believe that people should start learning electronics with the classic stuff.  People today have it too easy, they plug a couple PCB's together and write up some C and boom, they have a device.  Whatever happened to PCB design and Assembly? 

[Galenbo]

For me, It's a comeback also.

I studied electronics in the 90's, but Europe scared away every company that still really did some developing.
CB and TV video stuff got replaced by really cheap japan and later china products.

The tyredness of consumeristic endproducts and attendance of DIY, opensource and project groups got me back to it.

First MSEFI, then RF45-ZAY7045-linuxCNC, then MikroE and now Dave caused me to invest in Rigol products, I'm back to never stop again.

[M0BSW]

Looking at the radio amateurs I am for once in the section of " Youngster" there, most are well over 50, and a lot are well into the 70's and 80's.

As a UK  licensed HF Radio Amateur, I am living proof that there's nothing better than  a box  :-+of parts you can make something from and it works, still gives me a huge buzz. And if it's junk box parts that's even better