Author Topic: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!  (Read 4219 times)

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Offline slateraptor

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RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« on: March 14, 2012, 09:15:02 pm »
http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-L6M-00001-Kinect-Sensor-Windows/dp/B006UIS53K

US$250...that's US$100 more for a "repurposed" unit! What a load of GARBAGE!!

From their website: http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/kinectforwindows/purchase/overview.aspx

Quote
Note: The sensor unit does not ship with any software, and will only operate with an application developed for Kinect for Windows. In addition, the Kinect for Windows sensor is intended to be used with the Kinect for Windows SDK or an application that was developed with this SDK.

Bleeding fuckin' opportunists, as per the usual Microsoft.
 

Offline cybergibbons

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 09:41:14 pm »
Two reasons:
1. The Xbox unit is probably sold at lower cost because, as per most console hardware, the money is made in the games.
2. The market seems to bear this cost, so they'll sell it at that price.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2012, 10:52:57 pm »
Yeah, man they spend millions developing 3d capture tech that cost tens of $K a few years ago and actually want people to pay a market price for it.... Bastards.
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Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2012, 11:31:34 pm »
Get the xBox version and use libfreenect to capture raw video and depth frames on the OS of your choice.
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2012, 01:27:25 am »
Two reasons:
1. The Xbox unit is probably sold at lower cost because, as per most console hardware, the money is made in the games.
2. The market seems to bear this cost, so they'll sell it at that price.

1.) Try again.
2.) While Microsoft was busy jerking off behind their closed-doors, red-tape licensed development model, hackers around the world were busy independently producing many a proof of concept that brought confidence to the community, populated a previously non-existent market and boosted Microsoft sales directly. This is simply another fine example of Microsoft employing EEE.


Yeah, man they spend millions developing 3d capture tech that cost tens of $K a few years ago and actually want people to pay a market price for it.... Bastards.

This rant is about consistency and principle, virtues that Microsoft has historically lacked. Who gives a shit about how much they've spent in development. The gaming market obviously isn't set to break even; if nothing else, Microsoft will still be shitting gold bricks at the end of Kinect's marketing lifecycle. If you can't see where they've gone afoul with their quasi-philanthropic marketing campaign, a $100 increase for identical hardware and a closed development model, then you're just as lost as their leadership. The only reason this market even exists is because of independent hacker exploits exposing a massive potential application-space that Microsoft was too blind to see otherwise, which subsequently brought overwhelming confidence to the community.


Get the xBox version and use libfreenect to capture raw video and depth frames on the OS of your choice.

That goes without saying.
 

Offline metalphreak

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2012, 04:28:00 am »
Would you prefer they just continued to sell the same xbox version for $100 less, and then charge $100 for the development software package? (which is still cheap compared to a lot of software...)

Nobody is stopping you from using the xbox version with whatever open source software you want.

Also, I believe they were modifying the "for Windows" version to work better at close range, as the 360 version is designed for use in a living room environment where you stand a few feet back from it.

A bill of materials cost for each device is hardly indicative of what the real cost per device is for microsoft. It doesn't account for R&D costs, software development, support, and so on.

The fact is, there is nothing else on the market that's really comparable at this pricepoint, and selling them for PC's doesn't gain Microsoft more sales in other product areas. The 360 version is sold cheaper because it sells more consoles and more games. Microsoft are a business, they have various marketing techniques, and they are there to make money - they will sell it for whatever price they think will maximise their profits.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 04:31:22 am by metalphreak »
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2012, 05:35:15 am »
Nobody is stopping you from using the xbox version with whatever open source software you want.

Sure as shit I'm not buying into their embrace. It's also not stopping me from calling them out on their blatant market segmentation, price discrimination and tell-tale EEE practices that they're all too well known for either.


Also, I believe they were modifying the "for Windows" version to work better at close range, as the 360 version is designed for use in a living room environment where you stand a few feet back from it.

Oh great, a firmware update. :-\ Only goes to show how "far sighted" Microsoft's leadership is.


A bill of materials cost for each device is hardly indicative of what the real cost per device is for microsoft. It doesn't account for R&D costs, software development, support, and so on.

Hardly indicative?? It's practically clairvoyance in light that the price of the original Kinect was set based on a completely independent market! We're not talking about a loss here; we're talking about a device that broke a Guinness record for sales in the first year!
 

Offline cybergibbons

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2012, 12:05:41 pm »
Two reasons:
1. The Xbox unit is probably sold at lower cost because, as per most console hardware, the money is made in the games.

1.) Try again.


A BOM for the electronics alone of $56. Add costs for the case ($2-5), assembly and testing (most estimate that for < $200 units, this will be around half of the BOM so $28) , distribution ($?), advertising and finally markup for the retailer (at least 20%). They sell for £80 during sales in the UK - $125. Take off our VAT - $105. So $86 of materials and costs, leaving just under $20 for the retailer. Not exactly a cash cow.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2012, 11:28:30 pm by cybergibbons »
 

Offline AntiProtonBoy

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2012, 12:15:52 pm »
Does MS actually own the patents for the depth sensor? From memory I think it was originally developed by an Israeli R&D firm. I'm not sure what happened after that. I guess my point is, I'm assuming that some percentage of each unit sold also goes to the patent holder(s).
 

Offline slateraptor

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2012, 04:25:31 pm »
A BOM for the electronics alone of $56. Add costs for the case ($2-5), assembly and testing (most estimate that for < $200 units, this will be around half of the BOM so $28) , distribution ($?), advertising and finally markup for the retailer (at least 20%). They sell for £80 during sales in the UK - $125. Take off our VAT - $105. So $86 of materials and costs, leaving just under $20 for the retailer. Not exactly a cash cow.

You're write...US$56 doesn't sound right. IT'S WAY TOO HIGH!! Scale your numbers to compensate for 18 million production units in 1 year.
 

Offline metalphreak

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2012, 04:06:29 pm »
http://www.imaginativeuniversal.com/blog/post/2012/02/14/Why-the-Kinect-for-Windows-Sensor-Costs-2424999.aspx

There seems to be a few key points that were glazed over in the initial furore.

The SDK is FREE. Developers can use the cheaper 360 Kinect hardware (including any they already own). The licensing agreement is such that any apps produced with the SDK will only work with the "For windows Kinect" for retail users (ie end-users).

The "For Windows" version has a near mode, that works from as close as 40cm (vs 80cm for the xbox versions)

Seems pretty fair to me. They invest lots of money and resources into software development for Windows, and they recoup costs through higher priced hardware paid for by consumers (and not developers or non-commercial stuff).

So, after all that, you can still use the cheaper hardware with the free software they provide...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 04:09:38 pm by metalphreak »
 

Offline bombledmonk

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Re: RANT: Kinect for Windows?!
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2012, 06:36:42 pm »
You could always buy this instead......... for nearly $2k...
http://search.digikey.com/us/en/products/EKL3104/255-3037-ND/2442808


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