RANT: package thieves

[HwAoRrDk]

I was due to have a delivery of components today from LCSC that I'd been waiting a couple of weeks for, eager to get going on a project and assemble some boards. Apparently it was "delivered" earlier today, and the tracking info even includes a photo of said package left outside my house. But I got no notice or anything that it'd been delivered and dumped outside, so when I checked later in the day and realised what had happened, and went outside to check, it wasn't there - presumably stolen. Searched all over, not a sign of it.

Enjoy your pile of worthless-to-you electronic components, package thieves! I bet they'll just dump it all in the trash - what a waste.

To make matters worse, it's the Chinese new year break right now, so any re-order I place right now won't even get fulfilled until end of this week or next week, so I'm going to have to wait another 2 or 3 weeks!

[Monkeh]

I wish they'd never adopted the policy of dumping stuff outside your door. Deliver it to a neighbour or take it back.

[globoy]

Rant on HwAoRrDk, I feel your pain.  That sucks.  It feels especially terrible because you're right, you know the thieves have no idea what it was and just pitched it.  I am pretty lucky because I live in the country but even here there are mailbox thieves and one time I lost some custom electronics I had built and was was sending to someone.  We even had one rural mail carrier who felt it was fine to just throw packages near the mailbox when it was snowy (we keep our mailbox dug out so they can get close).  grrr...

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah. It has become very common in some areas. I've also been affected and had to never get any package delivered this way, ever again. That sucks because companies will often charge more to get the package delivered with a signature (which does not always guarantee anything, as sometimes the delivery guy will sign himself, dump the package and run), or delivered to some other place.

Also got stolen in mailboxes.

Welcome to the jungle.

[Andy Chee]

[linux-works]

you worry about getting your package stolen?  my ID was stolen!  out of my mailbox, physically.  tl;dr: some thieves (a large org, it seems) have been going around apartment complex buildings where there are groups of mailboxes (US mail only) and the keys are somewhat known to be hackable.  they were selective in what they took; they didnt just take all your mail.  so you didnt' notice some bills or some things missing.  I eventually got a call from the police a few towns over and they caught one of the guys with lots of my mail in his car.  he's now in prison (the system worked!).

lesson I learned is: try not to leave any mail in your mailbox.  I was lazy and left some bills there (no rush to get them, they're just paper copies) but with that info, the bad guy ran up all kinds of charges against me and it took months to unravel (years, really, since it took that long to taper off).

its not just packages that you have to worry about.  you really have to secure your mailbox, too!

[linux-works]

and here's a funny one:

I order a lot from amazon (they will replace things if they are not delivered or if the photo shows it being left in some incorrect place).  a few times, at least twice, I've gotton my package but clearly opened and searched thru.  but the package was still there!

it seems I must have insulted the thieves with some of my purchases.  what, switches and relays and resistors not good enough for you, thief-man?  no way to resell on ebay so they drop the package.  I suspect amazon drivers, actually.

but it was funny to get an opened box that was clearly searched thru - and REJECTED by the thief.  should I feel sad or happy?

[SiliconWizard]

To add to the anecdotes of that kind, once I also got the contents of a package stolen, they just put back optical fiber, which they probably either didn't care about or didn't even know what it was. But they cared to put it back in a largely destroyed package, as if to say "ha! not interested! Do better next time!"

[linux-works]

my stuff is not good enough for the thieves.

no jewelry, no designer names on things, no consumer electronics that they'd recognize.  although I was building quadcopters at the time and I did notice some motors never arrived.  (all my mail that was stolen is still locked up as evidence in some court somewhere and I'm told its next to impossible to get it back even after the trials are over.  wow.)

can I fly with 3 motors?  I really wanted that 4th one.  damn.

seriously, person-to-person delivery seems all but dead.  'sign' for delivery is mostly meaningless these days.

[rdl]

I had a package stolen just a few weeks ago. It was the first time it happened ever in over 15 years. I suspect probably some friends of one of my neighbor's teenage kids being opportunistic, since it is a "gated" apartment complex and the package was not visible from the street. The day before the package was expected I received an email saying that the package was arriving early. The email was sent less than 2 hours before the package was actually delivered. I was asleep at the time and was unaware of the email. I did not realize there had been a theft until the next morning. Had the delivery been made when it was originally estimated there probably wouldn't have been a theft, because I am retired and home most of the time.

Note: This was amazon's delivery service, it has not existed here for very long.

[SiliconWizard]

Amazon delivery varies a lot depending on where you are.

Over here, back when they were using their own service, it was an absolutely horrific service. Delivery guys would practically give the packages to just anyone nearby if you weren't there. They would also claim you weren't present when you were. They switched to third-party delivery companies now and that's certainly for the better.

[Andy Chee]

In case some weren't aware, Amazon have "Uber-ised" their delivery by creating Amazon Flex.  Basically anyone with a car or bicycle can sign up to the platform and deliver parcels.

https://flex.amazon.com/

So if you were delivered an open parcel from Amazon, you definitely need to report it in order to get the driver removed from the platform (though they may pop up again using another stolen phone and stolen credentials).

[Messtechniker]

Things like cameras do exist......
Be sure to cover your own property only.

[rdl]

Amazon here allows you to actually track the delivery truck once it's close. And they have been pretty accurate with the predicted delivery time once it is within 8-12 hours or so. However, bumping up the delivery time by 24 hrs (or more) and only giving 2 hours notice prior to delivery is something I'd prefer not happen.

[Traceless]

I'd check the legal situation in your country. In Germany delivery workers have to hand over the package to a person and are not allowed to dump it somewhere unless you explicitly agreed to a delivery to a storage location.

Apparently it was "delivered" earlier today, and the tracking info even includes a photo of said package left outside my house.

Luckily the delivery service provided you with image proof that they did just that. While that does not help with shipping time, in Germany the delivery company would be liable for the financial damage caused by the theft. Maybe things are similar in the UK.

[Haenk]

I'd check the legal situation in your country. In Germany delivery workers have to hand over the package to a person and are not allowed to dump it somewhere unless you explicitly agreed to a delivery to a storage location.

This is - unfortunately - not true. The delivery can be done "in good faith" (aka "im Ermessen des Zustellers"). For DHL, not handing the package to a person will require you to sign an agreement ("Ablagegenehmigung"). On the other hand, the option to not hand it over to your neighbour is an extra (called "keine Ersatzzustellung"). UPS and FedEx/TNT are quite strict on handing over to the receiver. Hermes, GLS, Amazon will just dump your package whereever they like.

[Ranayna]

One important thing regarding packages in germany, as a customer (as opposed to acting as a company):

The seller has the responsibility that whatever you ordered actually gets to *you*. If you never receive the package for whatever reason, including theft, the seller has to re-send at no cost to you. The seller might be able to get reimbursed by the courier, depending on circumstances and contracts.
Except, and that is important, unless you explicitly allow DHL to put the packages somewhere, without personal delivery. That is called "Abstellgenehmigung".
Once you have given this "Abstellgenehmigung", the seller has fulfilled his responsibility once DHL says the package has been delivered.

So if you have issues with package thieves, do not provide a "Abstellgenehmigung", if you have given one earlier, you need to rescind it.

[jonpaul]

Use "SIGNATURE REQUIRED" when settin gup shipping.

If order at disty, epay, Amazon communicate to seller/shipper:

"DUE TO THIEFT OF PACKAGES A SIGNATURE MUST BE REQUIRED"

Suggest a large locked post box and several high res PTZ surveillance cams plus warning signs.

Jon

[nctnico]

my stuff is not good enough for the thieves.

no jewelry, no designer names on things, no consumer electronics that they'd recognize.

That doesn't matter. I lost a really nice Agilent power supply due to a break-in at my employer; they ripped it right out of the test setup. Thieves take anything that is electrical and looks like it is worth something.

[mikeselectricstuff]

One important thing regarding packages in germany, as a customer (as opposed to acting as a company):

The seller has the responsibility that whatever you ordered actually gets to *you*. If you never receive the package for whatever reason, including theft, the seller has to re-send at no cost to you. The seller might be able to get reimbursed by the courier, depending on circumstances and contracts.

Good luck trying that with LCSC...

[xrunner]

I was due to have a delivery of components today from LCSC that I'd been waiting a couple of weeks for, eager to get going on a project and assemble some boards. Apparently it was "delivered" earlier today, and the tracking info even includes a photo of said package left outside my house. But I got no notice or anything that it'd been delivered and dumped outside, so when I checked later in the day and realised what had happened, and went outside to check, it wasn't there - presumably stolen. Searched all over, not a sign of it.

Enjoy your pile of worthless-to-you electronic components, package thieves! I bet they'll just dump it all in the trash - what a waste.

To make matters worse, it's the Chinese new year break right now, so any re-order I place right now won't even get fulfilled until end of this week or next week, so I'm going to have to wait another 2 or 3 weeks!

Damn that sucks. 

If you go back in time you would find that it was accepted that a mail system needed to be set up and that the delivered mail had to have a place to reside when delivered. My mailbox is at the curb, but there are still 'hoods where the mailbox is on the porch next to the door, and the postal worker walks around delivering the mail. My mailbox is secure: you cannot simply reach in and grab the mail.

We are at the point with Amazon et al. where the mail was at the beginning. These deliveries need a specific secure area to be placed, but that is like a secure mailbox. Maybe a large metal safty box on the porch which is bolted down. Really, houses need to be designed for these deliveries - have some sort of secure delivery portal for packages to be placed. If the package won't fit, you will have to go to a secure pickup area in town run by the delivery service. If you don't want to go there, you can opt-out at the time of ordering, but accept the consequences of your decision - possible theft.

Another option for houses like mine would be to drop the packages over the fence into the backyard. The fence is made of wooden boards which will conceal the delivery and the gate is locked.

[Ranayna]

One important thing regarding packages in germany, as a customer (as opposed to acting as a company):

The seller has the responsibility that whatever you ordered actually gets to *you*. If you never receive the package for whatever reason, including theft, the seller has to re-send at no cost to you. The seller might be able to get reimbursed by the courier, depending on circumstances and contracts.

Good luck trying that with LCSC...

Sure, but that is a risk you take when ordering from outside the EU.
One of the reasons why shops in the EU have such a high markup. And one of the reasons why many professional shops to not sell to customers anymore.

[DavidAlfa]

I'll never understand the delivery companies leaving the packets outstranded, at least here in Spain it's uncommon.
The driver usually calls you for instructions if you're outside and might leave it there if you say so, but not by default.

[mendip_discovery]

I am that neighbour that if I am home I will take many of my neighbours parcels. The driver puts a card through thier door to say who has it. I do it for them, they do it for me.

I had to collect a few bits from a neighbour for him as they had put a 1.2k item on his doorstep and he was 200miles away. They delivered a day early.

[HwAoRrDk]

I'm still really surprised someone stole it. My house isn't visible from the street, and where they supposedly left the package isn't even particularly visible to anyone who is actually walking past the front of the house.

Good luck trying that with LCSC...

Yeah, I'm fully expecting LCSC will tell me to get stuffed, because they see it on the tracking as "delivered". I'm resigned to the fact I'm going to have to re-order. And now one of the items I ordered is out of stock...

[tom66]

I must be really lucky because I don't think I've ever had a package stolen.

[IanB]

I'm still really surprised someone stole it. My house isn't visible from the street, and where they supposedly left the package isn't even particularly visible to anyone who is actually walking past the front of the house.

I had a missing package recently, where the delivery confirmation said "package left by front door", and yet no package was there. A day later, after thinking the package was lost, I discovered it on the driveway beside the garage. It seems the delivery driver didn't want to walk all the way to the door and had just left it in the most conveniently reachable place close to the street. I guess I should have been suspicious when there was no picture of the delivered package like there usually is.

[Bud]

Do not discount the possibility that the delivery driver placed the package by the door, snapped a photo and took the package with him. There are youtube vids capturing that.

[xrunner]

Do not discount the possibility that the delivery driver placed the package by the door, snapped a photo and took the package with him. There are youtube vids capturing that.

If they did that on my porch they would get in trouble ... because my camera would record the act.

In this day and age you need a camera to record what's happening at your front door.

[Xena E]

I refuse the use of one carrier by default.
I live at the end of a private drive, and the house can't be seen from the road.

Their local carrier on two occasions was recorded on my door camera walking to the door with the package, placing it on the porch step, taking a photograph of the parcel, then, picking it up again and walking off.

I complained and was told that under interview he had claimed I had insulted his "protected characteristics" and he was "teaching me a lesson", he still has his delivery round with the company.

I've never spoken to the man but I'm now a girl with a grudge.

The parcels were replaced by the vendors after some hassle, again just some electronic components the second time, clothing the first.

Evri one a wiener

Arseholes!

[linux-works]

Do not discount the possibility that the delivery driver placed the package by the door, snapped a photo and took the package with him. There are youtube vids capturing that.

I'm pretty sure that happened twice to me.  I saw the photo of the item in my closed hallway and yet the box was not there just an hour or less after it got there.  our neighbors in that hallway have no history of issues, so it was likely the driver.  yes, take a pic and then take the item!  no way to prove otherwise.  I think the opened ones were from that kind of situation, tbh.

[HwAoRrDk]

I refuse the use of one carrier by default.

Unfortunately, sometimes you don't know who the carrier is until you actually get the delivery. This is a particular bugbear with eBay, where sellers will just list the delivery method as "Other courier".

Evri one a wiener

We used to have a great Evri driver in my area. Always polite and would actually wait for you to open the door. But recently there's a new guy, and although post-delivery Evri send e-mails asking you to "rate your courier", I don't know how I'm supposed to when I've never interacted with him or even laid eyes on him. He just rings, drops, and runs. One time I was actually standing in the hallway near the door when I heard the bell ring. I opened the door, and there was a package on the step, but the guy was nowhere to be seen. Either he rivals Usain Bolt in his sprinting ability, or he's a ghost.

[Xena E]

The Evri (Hermes) carrier who used to be in the area was very helpful and efficient.

This guy though needs to watch himself and where he parks his van and doesn't want to be upsetting people who own side cutters...they may also have "protected characteristics."

I've spoken to several neighbours who have had problems, seems once again one bad apple spoils it for all, DPD, RM, UPS all fine, just this idiot with a chip on his shoulder causes crap in the neighbourhood.

[Nominal Animal]

I've had only excellent service from both FedEX and DHL here in Helsinki, Finland, and only horrible service from PostNord: the driver stopped in front of my building only long enough for the GPS to record he was here, and then he sped away without even stepping out from his van.  Arseholes even sent the package back before I could collect it from their only warehouse on the other side of the city!

The previous Finnish Post "point"  operator lost a couple of registered packages after automation had told me to come collect it.  Fortunately, they lost the license, and now a supermarket nearby handles it with zero issues in a couple of years now.  Just picked up a Banggood mini hot plate for small SMT board soldering experiments I ordered on Jan 31.

Reliable and predictable post and courier service is one thing I'm willing to bribe/tip/reward a carrier/courier for.  Finland is not a tipping country, though, and I don't exactly know how to do it.  I do make a point about giving good feedback (on the DHL/FedEX website), in the hopes that that matters any.

[jpanhalt]

Where in the US?

I lived in a gated apartment complex when I first moved to Ohio  All packages were delivered to the gate house.  Maybe you can make a similar arrangement where you are, even if it does not apply to everyone?

[jmelson]

Over a year ago, I had an $800 package of parts supposedly delivered by the carrier.  I went looking for it, and couldn't find it.  I eventually filed a police report for an expensive stolen package.  THEN, TWO DAYS LATER, the package was actually delivered!  I had to call the police and tell them that the package had finally arrived.  I informed the carrier that the delivery person had done this.

Another time, I had a package delivered to a gazebo nearly a block from my house.  Just by luck, I did see it while wandering around the neighborhood.

Another time I had a computer projector left out in the rain next to the mailbox.  If I hadn't found it very quickly, it would have been reduced to scrap.
In some other cases, the delivery person just threw boxes of expensive electronic parts on the very end of our driveway, just a foot from the sidewalk, to avoid having to walk down the driveway.
Jon

[Black Phoenix]

Well my experience is mixed. While in Portugal it was common for packages not even been trying to be delivered. Mailman leaves the letter in the box and I have to pick up next day on the post office.

If it was a delivery company as DHL, TNT or FedEx the guy would call me early on the morning and I would get an arrangement with him. If I was at home I would most of the times meet him in a place close to his delivery route if my package was the only one on that part of the city (or the city itself) or to set a time he would arrive. For me was always easier to put my company address and then it would be delivered there and someone would leave it in my desk.

Now in Hong Kong/Shenzhen it depends. In Hong Kong is the same as in Portugal, letter on the box, pick up 2 days later at the post office.

In Shenzhen is where I have the best delivery experience. All packages are left in a automated recieving station (basically a big machine with small, medium and big drawers) and as soon the door closes I receive an SMS with a code to the lock and location of the machine where it was left.

If it doesn't fit the box it is delivered at my home door or he returns later the day and deliveres personally, calling me before. If it is more than one smaller, they put all inside the biggest box available and again the code on the phone for the lock.

If it requires signature it has to be myself signing on their PDA/phone, no other way around. If it is someone else to pick up instead of me I have to go to the app and say I authorize someone to pick up on my own and write the name and phone number of that person (but most of the time just calling and telling him that someone is going to pick up other than me is enough).

If you don't pick up by the end of the day, at midnight you pay an extra fee (normally 0.5rmb per day, free during Lunar New Year and October Festival holidays) for the package being left there more than a day.

Thank god I never had packages stolen but got some lost and scammed deliveries where nothing was sent. Also had 2 cases of packages sent, didn't delivered, got refund and then they arrived later that week. Both were in Portugal during the French Tunnel Truck blockage in 2018.

[Nominal Animal]

In Shenzhen is where I have the best delivery experience. All packages are left in a automated recieving station (basically a big machine with small, medium and big drawers) and as soon the door closes I receive an SMS with a code to the lock and location of the machine where it was left.

Ah yes, parcel lockers.  I like them too.  They're ubiquitous here in Finland, owned by the Finnish Post, but it requires the sender to supply the recipient's cellphone number (for SMS).  They're the usual way you receive domestic packages.  You have a week to pick up the package, too.  You can even send packages from a parcel locker, although the locker reservation for sending is only valid for 24 hours.

[jpanhalt]

What if you value privacy and don't have a cell phone?  No postal service in Finland?

[Nominal Animal]

What if you value privacy and don't have a cell phone?  No postal service in Finland?

Pickup from post pickup point, typically located in/next to shops, or a (rare!) genuine Finnish Post Office.  Only the parcel locker service requires a cellphone number.  Ordinary mail, including smallest packages, are delivered to mailboxes.  I live in an apartment, and have a mail slot in my door.

Some post pickup points have excellent service (like the current one for my local area), others –– like the previous one for my local area –– can be 'lacking'.

As to package loss, it tends to happen either in the sorting center, or in a local pickup point (edit: I haven't heard any from parcel lockers).  For political reasons, the sorting centers employ some based on "social" reasons, and apparently their theft prevention measures are rather lacking.  For example, any cash money in envelopes or inside cards will invariably be stolen.  Local pickup points have various operators, and aren't too profitable per se; and sometimes can have serious problems with drug-addicted personnel and misplacing/misdelivering packages, and theft.

[Bud]

From some random forum post 

[linux-works]

wish I could find the photo, but during xmas 2 seasons ago, amazon had some items that they claimed would be delivered by 7am the next day.  I ordered and was up early that day and watched for when the delivery notice would appear.  I got the mail but when I looked around the usual places, nothing was there.  it was 5am, I think; really early for a delivery.

I got in my car and started driving around the property (20+ buildings in this complex).  I drove to the main manager building (no resident units there, its all offices) and there was the box, sitting on the ground, OUTSIDE the front door.

it was clear that no tenants live at that building but I guess the driver thought that 'main building' is better than nothing.  but to leave it on a street where people walk by (that's what he essentially did), if I didn't drive around and find that sole box sitting on the public street like that, it would have been gone by sunrise.

simply amazing that someone can get a job as a driver and be that stupid.

[rstofer]

We have a couple of German Shepherd Dogs that announce the arrival of everything - loudly!  Plus a couple of WiFi cameras that wake up a cell phone with video.

[SiliconWizard]

We have a couple of German Shepherd Dogs that announce the arrival of everything - loudly!  Plus a couple of WiFi cameras that wake up a cell phone with video.

Turns out dogs are still one of the most efficient ways of deterring thieves in 2024.

[Bud]

Thanks to dogs, now delivery drivers throw packages not coming to the door and not ringing doorbells.