Author Topic: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.  (Read 2320 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline aargee

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 726
  • Country: au
Sort of sadly hilarious seeing all the online store fronts falling over themselves trying to sell the up-spec'ed (really?) 'plus' version hoping everyone jumps on the 'must buy the latest' bandwagon.
Emails coming in left, right and centre from online shops.

Looking like an 'Apple play on human nature' type event.
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Online Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 9415
  • Country: au
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2018, 05:03:50 am »
Haven't checked - but what are the spec differences?
 

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: ca
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2018, 05:21:03 am »
It doesn't seem like much of an update.

Dual-band 802.11ac WiFi and Bluetooth 4.2 and the CPU has a metal lid for heat and upped to 1.4GHz
Meh, it's still using (shared) USB2.0 to Ethernet controller, and PoE needs a HAT pcb.
If it had more SDRAM, USB3.0 and didn't keep sliding off my table it would be good ;)
 
The following users thanked this post: nugglix

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 12479
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2018, 05:38:18 am »
I never felt I love the RPi thing. If I need the best performance, I go with Chinese/Korean smartphone SoC boards. If I need commercial design integration possibility, I go with iMX/Sitara, and I happened to work with both.

I thank the people behind RPi to start this SBC revolution, I can recall the dark time when a single core ARM9 SBC cost an arm and a leg. But I really can't see the necessity of RPi in 2018. It's historical mission has finished.
 

Offline bitwelder

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 826
  • Country: fi
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2018, 06:31:43 am »
I was watching the short video/presentation where Eben Upton (Raspberry CEO) was 'interviewing' the principal hardware engineer (on Element14 YT channel) and I noticed how much time they spent talking about the fact that the radio module comes now in a canned and more importantly pre-certified form.

Together with other other features like ability to boot from network (i.e. without any SD card or USB stick), and the PoE capability, it seems to me that they worked to make the B+ more geared for some kind of production/industrial environment, quite on a different side than the original educational/hobbyist market.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 06:40:51 am by bitwelder »
 

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7958
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2018, 06:56:58 am »
Yeah, I'm not sure what all the hype is about. It's good that they continue to move the Pi forward, but the B+ is not a huge improvement. I guess USB 3.x and independent Ethernet won't be until RPi4 or something (or Ethernet is on the way out since the Wi-Fi is faster). PoE is nice, but it's not onboard.
I TEA.
 

Offline Maxlor

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 560
  • Country: ch
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2018, 12:02:35 pm »
I don't know why you guys seem so dismissive of it. It is faster in nearly every way (20% faster CPU that might be easier to cool too, 3 times faster Ethernet, 3 times faster WiFi now that you can use 5GHz, 3 times faster Bluetooth), potentiantially cheaper to integrate (precertified wireless, PoE supporting jack – meaning if you do add PoE, you don't need a second jack for it. Jacks are expensive!), and still they didn't raise the price. It's a winner imo!
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki, Jacon

Online coppice

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4787
  • Country: gb
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 12:38:37 pm »
I don't know why you guys seem so dismissive of it. It is faster in nearly every way (20% faster CPU that might be easier to cool too, 3 times faster Ethernet, 3 times faster WiFi now that you can use 5GHz, 3 times faster Bluetooth), potentiantially cheaper to integrate (precertified wireless, PoE supporting jack – meaning if you do add PoE, you don't need a second jack for it. Jacks are expensive!), and still they didn't raise the price. It's a winner imo!
I don't think anyone is dismissive of the product. Its a perfectly reasonable respin. Its the BS surrounding the product that is humorous.
 

Offline brabus

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 225
  • Country: it
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 01:40:22 pm »
Pros:
FCC/CE certified. Not bad.

Cons:
I need a proper power jack, with 5...12V input capability - a cheap buck converter onboard will suffice.

Let's face it, Micro USB is one of the worst connectors out there.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2018, 01:43:14 pm by brabus »
 

Offline Circuitsquirrel

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 4
  • Country: us
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 02:37:20 pm »
I still haven't done anything with the Raspberry Pi 2, 3 or Beaglebone Black that I have laying around...
 

Offline blueskull

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 12479
  • Country: cn
  • Power Electronics Guy
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 04:26:31 pm »
Let's face it, Micro USB is one of the worst connectors out there.

MiniUSB doesn't agree.
 
The following users thanked this post: tooki, JPortici

Offline bitseeker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7958
  • Country: us
  • Lots of engineer-tweakable parts inside!
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 05:38:00 pm »
I don't know why you guys seem so dismissive of it. It is faster in nearly every way (20% faster CPU that might be easier to cool too, 3 times faster Ethernet, 3 times faster WiFi now that you can use 5GHz, 3 times faster Bluetooth), potentiantially cheaper to integrate (precertified wireless, PoE supporting jack – meaning if you do add PoE, you don't need a second jack for it. Jacks are expensive!), and still they didn't raise the price. It's a winner imo!
I don't think anyone is dismissive of the product. Its a perfectly reasonable respin. Its the BS surrounding the product that is humorous.

Correct. Not dismissive of the product. It's evolving, which is a good thing.
I TEA.
 

Offline thm_w

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1601
  • Country: ca
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 07:52:34 pm »
I don't know why you guys seem so dismissive of it. It is faster in nearly every way (20% faster CPU that might be easier to cool too, 3 times faster Ethernet, 3 times faster WiFi now that you can use 5GHz, 3 times faster Bluetooth), potentiantially cheaper to integrate (precertified wireless, PoE supporting jack – meaning if you do add PoE, you don't need a second jack for it. Jacks are expensive!), and still they didn't raise the price. It's a winner imo!

Looks like 15-40% faster for processing:
https://www.techrepublic.com/article/raspberry-pi-3-model-b-review-hands-on-with-the-new-board/

POE is really nice, but looks like you can get this which I guarantee will be cheaper than their POE hat:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Cdycam-IEEE-802-3af-Micro-USB-Active-PoE-Splitter-Power-Over-Ethernet-48V-to-5V-2/32841790680.html
 

Offline aargee

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 726
  • Country: au
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2018, 08:57:58 pm »
Yes, really I think the ‘Pi’ has done great things - I have a few (thanks to TopLoser  :) ) - two running Octoprint for 3D printing, another doing Pi-hole, etc
I was commenting on the commercial places seemingly trying to make this a sought after item, although there has been a bit more level headed talk coming from reviewers in the last day...
Not easy, not hard, just need to be incentivised.
 

Offline Red Squirrel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2322
  • Country: ca
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2018, 09:14:23 pm »
For any situation that you require a Linux based computer for a simple dedicated task, you can't beat the Pi as far as price, power usage and size.  Even the performance is actually quite good for the price.    The gpio stuff is just a bonus.

I'd love to see the ethernet and usb become dedicated though.
 

Offline floobydust

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3030
  • Country: ca
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 03:15:17 am »
I think it's two years now since the Pi Zero Wireless and Pi 3 came out.

The Raspberry Pi Foundation seems to be doing huge work getting computing science into classrooms and schools.

I have to grumble that as a UK charity, with £18m revenue (2016) and huge support from organizations like google, Arm, Microsoft, European Space Agency, Oracle Intel, Adobe, Samsung etc. for millions £ ...
that they haven't rolled out a new SOC, taken the Pi to the next level instead of this refresh. They certainly have the cash.

"In 2016 Eben Upton, the co-creator of the multi-million selling $35 Raspberry Pi, said there was little more power that could be wrung from the tiny computer without a major overhaul."
 

Online Ian.M

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8123
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2018, 08:02:30 am »
Cons:
I need a proper power jack, with 5...12V input capability - a cheap buck converter onboard will suffice.

Let's face it, Micro USB is one of the worst connectors out there.
I mostly agree, though an on-board buck would push the cost up and probably increase early mortality due to numpties using unsuitable PSUs.

You aren't *supposed* to put more than 2A through a Micro-B or AB USB connector (see USB.org power delivery standards).   The Raspberry Pi Foundation already recommends a 2.5A PSU for a Pi 3B or 3B+.  The 3B+ on-board power consumption has been measured at 610mA with a high CPU load - see https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=208110

That doesn't include power to optional off-board peripherals - up to 500mA each to four USB devices, plus whatever active HDMI accessories, Camera module etc. take, so its already likely to be overloaded by 'power'  :-DD users.   

Future Pi's are crying out for a power connector that can handle 15W reliably - whether that's 3A @5V, or a more reasonable 1.9A at 9V to 0.9A at 18V feeding an on-board buck converter.   Possibly add a 4 pin PC style fan connector fed from the buck input voltage, with PWM control and tacho feedback without using up GPIO port pins, as thermal management is becoming increasingly problematic as the SoC clock speed goes up and richer on-board peripherals are added.

The POE hat connector is a step in the right direction (and is probably the best way to feed a 3B+ if you are integrating it into anything serious) as at least its an 0.1" pitch square pin header, which if you use good quality gold plated female contacts, should be good for up to 3A DC onto the board, however they cheap-skated it by not using a six pin header with two grounds and two +5V pins in parallel to derate it enough for long-term reliability.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 08:31:52 am by Ian.M »
 

Offline Karel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1401
  • Country: 00
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2018, 08:25:02 am »
Most people here seem to forget the most important property (apart from the low price) of the rpi: software support.
Most single board computers and system on chips suck because they are stuck with older versions of the Linux kernel and
libraries and they lack repositories with additional software and many times they are slow with security patches.

For most people, the software ecosytem is much more important than the hardware specs and raw speed.
Even more, the amount of online assistance for the rpi is huge.

So, for most people, the rpi is the safest bet. So far it has the best support in terms of software,
assistance, long term availability, libraries and package availability, and the big community.

Despite the simpler/slower hardware, nothing beats the rpi.
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 
The following users thanked this post: 3db, Jacon

Offline llkiwi2006

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 98
  • Country: nz
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2018, 10:07:23 am »
Most people here seem to forget the most important property (apart from the low price) of the rpi: software support.
Most single board computers and system on chips suck because they are stuck with older versions of the Linux kernel and
libraries and they lack repositories with additional software and many times they are slow with security patches.

For most people, the software ecosytem is much more important than the hardware specs and raw speed.
Even more, the amount of online assistance for the rpi is huge.

So, for most people, the rpi is the safest bet. So far it has the best support in terms of software,
assistance, long term availability, libraries and package availability, and the big community.

Despite the simpler/slower hardware, nothing beats the rpi.

Yes I agree, for a hobbyist most of the time the requirements are simple. A raspberry pi Just WorksTM, has good support from the community, and is cheap, so why not use it?
 

Offline Karel

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1401
  • Country: 00
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2018, 10:27:18 am »
Yes I agree, for a hobbyist ...

Also for lot's of professionals (don't forget the industrial version: compute module https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/compute-module-3/).
Most companies don't have the resources to provide and backport system updates and security patches for multiple years.
And the professional long term support for most sbc's and soc's is a joke...
The difference between theory and practice is less in theory than
the difference between theory and practice in practice.
Expensive tools cannot compensate for lack of experience.
 

Offline frozenfrogz

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 901
  • Country: de
  • Having fun with Arduino and Raspberry Pi
Re: Raspberry Pi 3B+ - watching everyone falling over themselves.
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2018, 11:06:08 am »
A raspberry pi Just WorksTM, has good support from the community, and is cheap, so why not use it?

Exactly that :) There are a lot of very usable builds (Kali Linux ftw!).
Other SBCs like for example the Beagle Bone Black can be a p.i.t.a. to get up and running in comparison.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf