EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: fonograph on June 06, 2017, 09:11:35 am
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I am extreme noob when it comes to typing on PC.Stuff like Excell or PDF is to me what quantum physics is to ant.
To this day I always wrote important stuff into my real world notepad with pencil but now I need to have the same thing,but digital on PC.I know only about how to make text file when I right click in Window,but it doesnt have multiple pages,I need multiple pages,I need to switch between pages easily,simply and fast.
Idealy I would like something that is extremly simple,a idiot proof format,I dont want any spreadsheets,or pictures,or various fonts,size,colors,I just want simpe black text,in one size,one font and many many pages and when I save the file with all the pages,all the pages should be in that one file,I want something like my real world notepad.
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If you want a simple text editor, stick with a bog standard ASCII text file (Windows Notepad, Notepad++ etc...) anything and everything will read those files, even if you read them at the raw file level in a hex editor.
Otherwise I'd stick with either RTF (Rich Text Format), DOC/DOCX (Microsoft Word Document) or ODF (Open Document Format). All of the applications I've mentioned can open documents created in the other format. For example, you can use OpenOffice to open and edit Microsoft Word documents (if you don't want to pay for, or aren't a fan of Microsoft Office). They are all pretty much universal; Anyone and everyone can read them.
If you need to archive documents (that don't require editing). I suggest either an image format such as BMP or TIFF, or Adobe PDF.
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I dont know how to make multiple pages in Notepad :( Can it even make it?
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I dont know how to make multiple pages in Notepad :( Can it even make it?
There are no "pages" in an ASCII text file, it's just a string of text. A page depends on how you later decide to print it (and how much fits on a physical sheet of paper). Think of a text file as nothing more than an endless roll of paper. There are no defined "pages".
If you're after anything more than that, stick with a word editor like Windows Wordpad (free and included with Windows) or Microsoft Word. Both will allow you to save documents in a variety of different formats such as RTF.
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I dont know how to make multiple pages in Notepad :( Can it even make it?
Notepad++ will give you multiple tabs/pages... if I'm grasping your requirement properly :-//
and the price is VERY affordable :-+ (quote Author: "FREE as in "free speech" and also as in "free beer"
source code editor and Notepad replacement that supports several languages")
notepad-plus-plus.org/
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I suggest you explore the worlds of free Word processors.
https://libreoffice.org (https://libreoffice.org) or https://www.openoffice.org/ (https://www.openoffice.org/) or https://docs.google.com (https://docs.google.com).
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Libre Office (https://www.libreoffice.org/) is completely free and open source and has Writer , an alternative to Microsoft Word.
It saves the documents in ODF (open document format) which is supported by Microsoft Office suite as well and lots of other software programs.
If you're patient enough to spend about 20-30 minutes in menus you can learn how to create a sort of index to the document and basically a menu and then you can simply define sections / chapters in your document and you can jump straight to them from the first pages of your document.
If you want something more basic, you could try Simple Sticky Notes or something similar to it: http://www.simplestickynotes.com/screenshots/ (http://www.simplestickynotes.com/screenshots/)
You can create short notes and group them in "books" and review them whenever you want.
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What sort of text file do you want to store?
A plain text file, just stores the characters you enter in, plus some control codes1 to indicate a new line and tab. It contains no formatting information, font, page set up etc. If you print the file, the printer will start a new page, when it gets to the bottom of the previous page. The text editor might have options to change the size of the font used by the printer but it won't be stored in the text file, only in the editor's configuration.
1If you insert the ASCII control code FORM FEED, 1100 (12 decimal, C hexadecimal) into a text file and print it, the printer might start printing on a new page, but the text editor won't recognise it: it'll just appear as a box or dot.
As mentioned above, there are rich text formats, such as Windows RTF, which include more information and allow you to select different fonts, formatting etc.
Files created by MS Office and Libra Office are actually compound file formats, because they can contain other things than just text: graphics, spreadsheets, macros (simple programs) can also be stored, as well as rich text.
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LibeOffice included LibreDraw, to make simple drawings. But you could also use https://draw.io.
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I want something like my real world notepad.
In any word processing application, if you press the insert key on the keyboard, it will switch to overwrite mode, which has the practical effect that everything stays on the page you originally wrote it on. To add a blank page, switch back to insert mode temporarily and press enter until everything has moved down one page.
It's not how most people do it, but I have a feeling you might like it!
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If I'm reading OPs requirements correctly,
Notepad ++ and standard MS Notepad will bail him/her out of any text based scenario
with minimum effort and learning curve :clap:
and one less Officey bloatware install to battle with |O
that has features he/she may never use
KISS :-*
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One of the features missing from Notepad is a spell checker but there are probably other text editors which do have it.
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You might want to look at Microsoft OneNote.
The usual M$ haters may now start complaining.
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I dont know how to make multiple pages in Notepad :( Can it even make it?
To save multiple pages you should use (just as everyone above suggested) a slightly more complicated application such as open office writer. It does support various functions however and is more complicated than notepad if those functions are actually used, but I guess you could get away with simply creating a new document and writing the text. In all of those tools (libreoffice/openoffice writer, microsoft office word, etc) you can write as many pages as you need and are able to save them in one file and load them from that one file.
There are some tools specifically for writing notes. As mentioned above, microsoft one note is one of them, and there are other similar tools out there as well.
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No one are asking the right questions.
* which device PC, mac/apple, tablet, z80
* what model/age it is
* what operating system windows95, msdos, linux
* where you need the digital format (for book, for internet, for memoirs)
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I want something like my real world notepad.
To add a blank page, switch back to insert mode temporarily and press enter until everything has moved down one page.
It's not how most people do it, but I have a feeling you might like it!
A much better method that works in most word processors is hitting CTRL-Enter to insert a page break. That way all of your page breaks stay exactly where you want them if you edit something. If you just hit enter until you're on the next page for hundreds of pages you'll be doing a LOT of clean up if you make a simple edit.
Neither of these options will actually work with a plain text file. A text file only contains text, and CR/LF (carraige return/line feed) control codes (usually). You will need to use at bare minimum RTF (rich text format) to actually make use of pages and page breaks.
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ASCII does have a "form feed" character that, back in the day, would cause a line printer to eject the page and go the next.
0xC or ^L.
It's more of a historical artifact at this point, though I bet there are text editors that will display a line or something.
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Seconded on LibreOffice writer (which supports back as far as WinXP by the way, plus most other platforms), it's very intuitive.
You may think that you just want single font etc. (which of course you can do) but think about things like easy bulleted or numbered lists, inserting special characters, eg. \$\Omega\$ etc. You can use as few features as you want, but you'll probably finding yourself using more to make things more readable over time. In the beginning, you just start typing. [Edit: You also get to see how it actually looks on the page.]
Inserting a page break is easier than trying to work out which CTRL key combination to use. ;)
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ASCII does have a "form feed" character that, back in the day, would cause a line printer to eject the page and go the next.
0xC or ^L.
It's more of a historical artifact at this point, though I bet there are text editors that will display a line or something.
Which is why I said usually. ASCII does have several control codes available, but their usefulness varies on editor and operating system (and even by terminal emulation in some OS's). None of those codes will help the OP jump from page to page with ease though, even if supported by their chosen plaintext (ASCII) editor in their operating system.
The OP only mentioned editing the files, never printing them.
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ASCII does have a "form feed" character that, back in the day, would cause a line printer to eject the page and go the next.
0xC or ^L.
It's more of a historical artifact at this point, though I bet there are text editors that will display a line or something.
Which is why I said usually. ASCII does have several control codes available, but their usefulness varies on editor and operating system (and even by terminal emulation in some OS's). None of those codes will help the OP jump from page to page with ease though, even if supported by their chosen plaintext (ASCII) editor in their operating system.
Well, I'm pretty sure this is of no use to the OP since he's interested in simple, but if he's willing to invest in learning emacs, that is a text editor that will jump from page to page with ease with the "forward-page" (Ctrl-X ] ) and "backward-page" (Ctrl-X [ ) bindings. Pages being defined with form-feed as has been mentioned here.
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ASCII does have a "form feed" character that, back in the day, would cause a line printer to eject the page and go the next.
0xC or ^L.
It's more of a historical artifact at this point, though I bet there are text editors that will display a line or something.
Which is why I said usually. ASCII does have several control codes available, but their usefulness varies on editor and operating system (and even by terminal emulation in some OS's). None of those codes will help the OP jump from page to page with ease though, even if supported by their chosen plaintext (ASCII) editor in their operating system.
Well, I'm pretty sure this is of no use to the OP since he's interested in simple, but if he's willing to invest in learning emacs, that that will jump from page to page with ease with the "forward-page" (Ctrl-X ] ) and "backward-page" (Ctrl-X [ ) bindings.
I really hope this doesn't turn into an emacs/vi/vim war now. That's why I hadn't mentioned vim being my personal choice for editing just about everything. Use whatever works best for you, and I'll use whatever works best for me.
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I really hope this doesn't turn into an emacs/vi/vim war now. That's why I hadn't mentioned vim being my personal choice for editing just about everything. Use whatever works best for you, and I'll use whatever works best for me.
Of course, I'm not trying to start anything. I completely agree. Peace!
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I really hope this doesn't turn into an emacs/vi/vim war now. That's why I hadn't mentioned vim being my personal choice for editing just about everything. Use whatever works best for you, and I'll use whatever works best for me.
Of course, I'm not trying to start anything. I completely agree. Peace!
I've gotta say, that was by far the most non-violent reply I've ever seen to a post comparing those two rivals. Good on ya mate <fakeaussieaccent/> :-D Hey, my fake Aussie accent end tag doesn't seem to be showing up in my reply. Lol
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Keep your paper notepad and pencil.
Digital text is very volatile and nasty. I mean, the support is changing very fast: magnetic tapes, diskettes, PDAs, hard disks, CDs, USB drives, mobile phones, cloud storage and so on. I still have text files on diskettes, but no diskette unit to read them. Defective hard disks and lost USB sticks are way more prone to happen then losing a paper notebook. The only notes I have that managed to survive over time, and are still readable without any effort now 30 years later, are on paper. Paper does not need another device to read it, or electricity, or drivers, or software. One more advantage for paper is that you can interact with it at a physical level, much better then with a virtual object. Memory works way better when writing on paper then when typing. Also, on paper you can easily do marks, annotations, you will easily remember pagination, and so on. The access on paper is much faster then sitting in front of a computer, waiting for it to boot, or waiting for the PC to make a software update.
Each time I am using a computer instead of paper, I regret it. It's a waste of time and energy.
Electronic format makes a lot of sense for other activities, but not for making notes, and I am not an old timer nostalgic. My job and my life was happening mostly in front of a computer for more then 20 years now.
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Another word processor which no one has mentioned yet is AbiWord (https://www.abisource.com/). It doesn't come with all the other fluff which you get with MS Office or OpenOffice.org. It's just a word processor.
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I wouldn't hurt for the OP to learn and use word processing software like MS-Word or Libreoffice. Many jobs require that nowadays.
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Another word processor which no one has mentioned yet is AbiWord (https://www.abisource.com/). It doesn't come with all the other fluff which you get with MS Office or OpenOffice.org. It's just a word processor.
How 'bout good 'ol DOS based WordPerfect 5.1? I actually miss using that. I used to have ALL the F key commands memorized.
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Another word processor which no one has mentioned yet is AbiWord (https://www.abisource.com/). It doesn't come with all the other fluff which you get with MS Office or OpenOffice.org. It's just a word processor.
How 'bout good 'ol DOS based WordPerfect 5.1? I actually miss using that. I used to have ALL the F key commands memorized.
I can't tell if you're serious.
Can you still get hold of such antiquated software legally?
How many modern programs can still read the files?
It would also need an emulator to run on a modern operating system.
Going from Google WordPerfect 5.1 was released, it already was backward, in terms of its user interface. Back then I would have been at lower school, where we used the Acorn Archimedes which had a very intuitive, graphical word processor, Pen Down, which was common in schools until the late 90s. Even though it was good at the time, I wouldn't recommend using that either.
There are plenty of free, decent, modern word processing programs around, so I think it's silly to learn to use an old program, when there are superior alternatives.
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Another word processor which no one has mentioned yet is AbiWord (https://www.abisource.com/). It doesn't come with all the other fluff which you get with MS Office or OpenOffice.org. It's just a word processor.
How 'bout good 'ol DOS based WordPerfect 5.1? I actually miss using that. I used to have ALL the F key commands memorized.
I can't tell if you're serious.
Can you still get hold of such antiquated software legally?
How many modern programs can still read the files?
It would also need an emulator to run on a modern operating system.
Going from Google WordPerfect 5.1 was released, it already was backward, in terms of its user interface. Back then I would have been at lower school, where we used the Acorn Archimedes which had a very intuitive, graphical word processor, Pen Down, which was common in schools until the late 90s. Even though it was good at the time, I wouldn't recommend using that either.
There are plenty of free, decent, modern word processing programs around, so I think it's silly to learn to use an old program, when there are superior alternatives.
While I really do miss using WP51 (oh the memories) I wasn't seriously suggesting it. I wonder if it would be considered abandonware now. If so it wouldn't be hard at all to find a copy online.
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Markdown (*.md by convention) is very popular with developers for introducing basic document structure over what plain notepad txt files can handle. The major elements being - headings, dotpoints, quotation, bold or italic text style.
The primary advantages are -
- editor and application agnostic - ie one can use notepad++, vim or emacs. And many hosting services render it natively (eg. github) , also programmer focused blog platforms (eg. jekyll).
- it's not a binary format, so it's easy to see changes using source-control diffing.
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I've gotta say, that was by far the most non-violent reply I've ever seen to a post comparing those two rivals. Good on ya mate <fakeaussieaccent/> :-D Hey, my fake Aussie accent end tag doesn't seem to be showing up in my reply. Lol
You guys are no fun. What are chatrooms for if they're not for blistering flamewars over trivial disagreements?
As it happens, I spend most of my day in vim, and I do use it to take notes. I have a few conventions I use to organize my notes, which I guess could be considered a file "format."
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I really don't do much editing these days, but I've done everything from simple text, to c programming, to full featured web applications written in multiple languages, all in vim. It does what I need it to do the way I want it to do it. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner though, especially for just simple note taking. It would definitely work, but there's quite a learning curve.
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I'll second the suggestion for using a plain text editor for something that's extremely simple and foolproof, and Notepad++ seems like a decent one. As has been said, a text editor, for editing text files, just lets you line up letters and numbers in a sequence, and that's a concept that's been around since forever. Doesn't get much simpler than that, and in theory it should be readable and searchable by anyone anywhere, at any point in the future.
Using a word processor (Word, Libreoffice, etc) - something for editing documents, with all the bells and whistles anyone could ever need - is never going to be portable in the same way, and if you really don't need to use different fonts and text styles they don't add much other than having a concept of pages.
But it does sound like what you could really use is a note taking app. They are at the opposite extreme, not at all simple, but useful in that you can organize notes and search them which makes it easier to find and read what you've written. Plain text files have a tendency to be scattered about and finding that thing you wrote six months ago can be a real pain. If you're not going to be able to find it and read it, does it even matter that it's written down?
The downside seems to be that you can't usefully take what you've written and put it somewhere else; copying the words is not a problem, but the context they were written in doesn't follow along, so if you want to keep the ability to search notes then in a sense you'll be locked in to one specific application. That may be perfectly acceptable.
What I personally do is make quick notes in a plain text file, one per month, and try to move things that are important into a locally installed wiki. In practice, this isn't perfect but it more or less works.
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I use OneNote for everyday note taking.
I use paper for projects and archival. The one I programmed myself: http://inventorspad.com/ (http://inventorspad.com/) it's open source and rather easy to customize.
Lastly I use Google Docs a lot for business stuff and things where I want versioning.
You will get as many recommendations as answers. It's a matter of preference and workflow :)
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is OP still in the building ? :-//