Smartphone battery in my project

[maniron]

Hi, I have a little question. Can I integrate a replacement part in my own product? I thinking about smartphone batteries, they have a big capacity and at same time are very slim. Can I buy smartphone replacement batteries, integrate these batteries in my own product and sell it?

Thanks in advance


P.S. sorry for my english

[m98]

Unless they have some patented interface or connector and you can establish a reliable supplier, I see no issues. Stay clear of Samsung, though.

[maniron]

Thank you for your answer! So it's all about patents, good to know 

[Mr. Scram]

Unless they have some patented interface or connector and you can establish a reliable supplier, I see no issues. Stay clear of Samsung, though.

Do you base your advice on the general Samsung business practices and other cases like the geohot one, or do you know of a specific case regarding batteries?

[amyk]

Unless they have some patented interface or connector and you can establish a reliable supplier, I see no issues. Stay clear of Samsung, though.

Do you base your advice on the general Samsung business practices and other cases like the geohot one, or do you know of a specific case regarding batteries?

He might be referring to this.

[NiHaoMike]

Have you checked Hobbyking if they have a battery of the right specs?

[janekm]

Nokia BL-5C used to be a popular choice for this. The phones are probably all not being made any more but the batteries are so popular in other products that they are still widely available.
Only problem is that it's hard to find an original battery so you don't really get the safety benefits you might expect.

[stmdude]

Only problem is that it's hard to find an original battery so you don't really get the safety benefits you might expect.

On the upside though, you can ship your product without the battery, and have the end-user source it themselves, saving you of the hassles that are associated with shipping Lithium based batteries.

[Halcyon]

Unless they have some patented interface or connector and you can establish a reliable supplier, I see no issues. Stay clear of Samsung, though.

A reputable supplier is very important. Those cheap Chinese batteries are frequently of dubious quality and many lack the requisite safety protection.

On the upside though, you can ship your product without the battery, and have the end-user source it themselves, saving you of the hassles that are associated with shipping Lithium based batteries.

Not a bad idea. Depending on your device of course. Those 18650 torch batteries are very popular and fairly easy to source.

[amyk]

Beware that phone batteries are designed to be replaced only when capacity has dropped significantly, in other words, not to be replaced everyday.
Therefore, phone batteries don't have fuel gauge built in, they rely on host side fuel gauge to determine remain juice level, and that means if you pop a new battery in, the fuel gauge will take time to accommodate new battery.
If you need batteries that can give accurate fuel gauge reading while being frequently swappable, you need to look at camera batteries or camcorder batteries -- these are designed to be swapped in and out multiple times each day.

There are these fuel gauges, which work on voltage alone and don't require anything else: http://www.richtek.com/en/Design%20Support/Technical%20Document/AN024

They only measure voltage, but can determine the charge level very accurately as long as there is some change in voltage. If you've ever swapped a battery in a phone and saw a percentage that changed rapidly for a short time, then stabilised around a more accurate value, it's probably using something like that. TI and Maxim make similar parts. More (rather vague) information on the algorithm can be found here: http://www.batterypoweronline.com/conferences/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/TI_YandongZhang__dynamic_voltage_correlation.pdf

[RGB255_0_0]

Stay clear of Samsung, though.

Hyperbolic nonsense. SDI is still one of the best battery manufacturers out there and a myriad of problems led to the Note 7 issues, the battery being the main one; the Note 7 design being another. Race to the bottom when it comes to battery life and slim firm factor was always a disaster waiting to happen.

But to slate an entire battery manufacturer's product line?

[darko31]

Samsung's 18650 cells are widely used in power tools, and proven to be quite durable and good quality.

Sent from my Redmi 3S using Tapatalk

[m98]

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Glad you noticed, it was meant as a joke.

[Mr. Scram]

Hyperbolic nonsense.

Glad you noticed, it was meant as a joke.

Germans don't joke.

[maniron]

Thank you all for the interest, I'm working on a project where a 18650 can't fit due to his dimensions, I need a flat and slim battery.
My conclusions are that smartphone batteries are perfect. I'm attracted to Xiaomi batteries, they have huge capacity (4 Ah) and at same time are very slim. The battery will have to power a Mediatek mt7688 and a generic low power uC, with a similar battery my device can be operative for a lot of hours.
The downside of xiaomi is that these batteries have their own connector while nokia batteries, like the BL-5C suggested above, have only three contacts directly on battery body. The shipping is another problem, I want to sell my devices with the battery already installed.

[Mr. Scram]

Most images Google spits out show a fairly regular connector. What is the problem with that?

[hans]

I personally also wonder about the longevity supply of smartphone batteries.

In particular, once you commit to a proprietary size/connector battery (no standardization here), can you still get that battery model in 5 years? Smartphones and tablets are consumer products with a life span of 4-5 years tops, so I wouldn't be amazed if batteries only are made till that age and then stock is being cleared out.

But of course, I could also be wrong.
And perhaps it doesn't make a difference in your project.

[Howardlong]

FWIW, a common standard is to use 2mm pitch JST PH series connectors.

[Mr. Scram]

I personally also wonder about the longevity supply of smartphone batteries.

In particular, once you commit to a proprietary size/connector battery (no standardization here), can you still get that battery model in 5 years? Smartphones and tablets are consumer products with a life span of 4-5 years tops, so I wouldn't be amazed if batteries only are made till that age and then stock is being cleared out.

But of course, I could also be wrong.
And perhaps it doesn't make a difference in your project.

That was the nice part about the Nokia batteries. Nokia either used the same battery for many models, or used a compatible model. Not too many manufacturers seem to be doing that.

[Howardlong]

A further option, if the 7.2v 2S route works for you, is that there is a large and reasonably priced after market for third party Sony NP-Fxxx series camcorder batteries (e.g. NP-F330, NP-F550 etc) The photography and video market use these batteries extensively for lighting, monitors, etc. and they use a standard quick release fitting if you can work that into your project.

[maniron]

You are opening my eyes on some issues I did not think about. The Sony camcorder batteries are very difficult to integrate, it's a portable device and must be as small as possible. I think that the JST PH connector will be my backup solution.
I'm still in brainstorming phase, I'll see what other solutions will come out, in the meantime thanks to everyone!