Redundant Phones, & corporate Influences!!

[GlennSprigg]

The 'topic' here is truly broad spectrum, sorry...

The 'CommBank', (to outsiders, one of our Countries Major Banking infrastructures, "The Commonwealth Bank of Australia"),yy
has 'updated' it's 'Phone-Banking' .APP for our Phones... Well & good, NOT!  I can log on to my Bank on-line from my Laptop etc., and that's fine!
I can view all my Accounts details, and make Payments if/when I choose... but 'SOME' functions require the sending of a 'NetCode' to my Phone,
for me to verify first... OK... I understand this security step, as many organizations use such a step to 'verify' who you are, linked to your phone... 

MOST Companies/Departments, usually do this via a simple 'SMS' text msg to your phone, but no longer the 'Comm-Bank' !!   
They still utilize such 'Codes', but NOW it requires logging in to your Phone-App to see the 'Code' that you need to quote to complete the transaction!
Ok... That's more of a pain... Except now you have to use their 'Latest' App version to work, and my $700 Samsung-S4 (then) is no longer good enough
to install/update their bloody APP !!!!  It has Android Ver. 5 but needs at least Android Ver. 6, and can 'not' be simply updated....   

So NOW, myself & my 'missus', (we have the same phones that I paid cash for, not on a 'plan'), can not even perform on-line transactions, without me being
forced to buy new phones/OS-Versions, just so I can do basic business transactions!!!  Well, 'F.U.' Comm bank. Others don't do this to long standing customers!
I spent an hour & half on the phone, trying to perform a simple transaction (UN-resolved!. Not any more though, am changing Banks after 45 years!)

The 'follow-on' to this, is that a lot of 'Programmers' today could not give a flying fuck about backward-compatibility, and must literally think...
"Well, so update your Hardware & Software then!..."   For those who think I'm just not understanding new tech requirements though,  I'm 'NOT' talking
about new technology software better aimed at defeating crime/fraud etc... All well and good!!  I'm talking about a 'Platform' where obviously one extra level
of Security is to 'verify' who you are, by having to access your Phone/Number TOO, as all others do via a Text 'SMS' message to your phone, for a 'Code'... 

P.S....
I've now reviewed ways of totally re-setting ones 'S4' phones, via various external (illegal Who Gives a Fuck!) methods, to still have a FULLY functional 'Samsung-S4'
phone set up with Android-10, and all the Apps you want!!!  Lost Guarantee?? Who gives a fuck. Will explain later for those interested!   

[madires]

It's the common Android update disaster. Banks over here all require some additional authorization/verification for a long time. The current authorization methods are an app or a hardware token (more secure). So customers can choose which method to use and they may also add multiple app IDs or hardware tokens to one account.

[Bassman59]

I honestly don't understand why you 'use' a lot of 'single quotation' marks in your posts, along with random boldface.

[TimFox]

In non-US English-speaking countries, "-quotation marks are nested inside '-quotation marks, while in the US it is typical to nest '-marks inside "-marks.
For example,  "He called me a 'Yankee' online", she complained.

[Bassman59]

In non-US English-speaking countries, "-quotation marks are nested inside '-quotation marks, while in the US it is typical to nest '-marks inside "-marks.
For example,  "He called me a 'Yankee' online", she complained.

Sure, yeah, but that's not what I'm getting at. Glenn just sprinkles single-quote marks around random words for no apparent reason.

[TimFox]

What I see often in US supermarkets and other commercial establishments is another misuse of quotation marks, such as "Fresh" lettuce.
(It's an interesting punctuation question to quote quotation marks.)

[PlainName]

such as "Fresh" lettuce.

That immediately says to me it's not fresh. It is pseudo-fresh.

[Bassman59]

What I see often in US supermarkets and other commercial establishments is another misuse of quotation marks, such as "Fresh" lettuce.
(It's an interesting punctuation question to quote quotation marks.)

Hah, when I see that, I assume the lettuce has been sitting there for a long time!

[TimFox]

Literally, the punctuation indicates that it is "so-called fresh".  I assume that Glenn meant that when writing " 'programmers' ".  (White space added for clarity.)

[eti]

SMS is notoriously insecure for 2FA, whereas app-based "authenticators" are less so (app-arrently) - SIM swapping and social engineering means that I can EASILY do a SIM swap, online, right now, take over my parent's phones, and drain them dry!

Does a thread about 2FA really NEED to be de-railed into an ad-hominem gripe about someone's personal typing style? We all do things which annoy others - maturity is in grinning one's teeth and overlooking faults - we ALL have them (would you like me to start a fault-finding thread for EEVblog members? I'd never stop!)

GlennSprigg is a really nice chap - please do not pick fault.

[Just_another_Dave]

It's the common Android update disaster. Banks over here all require some additional authorization/verification for a long time. The current authorization methods are an app or a hardware token (more secure). So customers can choose which method to use and they may also add multiple app IDs or hardware tokens to one account.

Android updates (or the lack of them when the manufacturer wants to stop supporting devices) are a serious problem for providing digital access to critical services. Using a device for 2FA that depends on the manufacturer to authorize updates to be able to patch security flaws might not be the best decision that banks have taken…

It is quite annoying that, being android based on Linux, mobile phones limit the user from changing their operating system so much without authorization from their manufacturers

[NiHaoMike]

P.S....
I've now reviewed ways of totally re-setting ones 'S4' phones, via various external (illegal Who Gives a Fuck!) methods, to still have a FULLY functional 'Samsung-S4'
phone set up with Android-10, and all the Apps you want!!!  Lost Guarantee?? Who gives a fuck. Will explain later for those interested!   

Nothing illegal about installing LineageOS.

[eti]

P.S....
I've now reviewed ways of totally re-setting ones 'S4' phones, via various external (illegal Who Gives a Fuck!) methods, to still have a FULLY functional 'Samsung-S4'
phone set up with Android-10, and all the Apps you want!!!  Lost Guarantee?? Who gives a fuck. Will explain later for those interested!   

Nothing illegal about installing LineageOS.

I run "Pixel Experience" on my Xiaomi RedMi Note 7, and it's transformed it into a phone which is actually DECENT. Still, it's not iOS, but for Android it's nice.

[PlainName]

No need to reply to this I'll delete it.

Locally or on EEVBlog?

[Someone]

Always an alternative:
https://www.commbank.com.au/support.digital-banking.explain-netcode-token.html
Let them provide the hardware.

[madires]

That could be an RSA SecurID.

[PlainName]

Let them provide the hardware.

My UK bank did that many years ago, providing a kind of card reader affair. On demand you shove the card in, type your PIN and it gives you an 8-digit code to supply to whatever is asking. That's when I stopped using that account for day-to-day stuff - when I'm using a PC I never have my card with me, so it was a big drag to log onto online banking or anything else requiring that thing.

Now, they've done a phone app which basically does the same thing, but instead of the card you use your fingerprint (or, presumably, a PIN if you don't have a finger or reader). Since I nearly always have my phone with me I've started to use that account in anger again.

Security is fine until it becomes intrusive, and then it's just a matter of whether you can find a workaround (negating the point of it) or stop using it (again, defeating the point of it).

[Someone]

Let them provide the hardware.

My UK bank did that many years ago, providing a kind of card reader affair. On demand you shove the card in, type your PIN and it gives you an 8-digit code to supply to whatever is asking. That's when I stopped using that account for day-to-day stuff - when I'm using a PC I never have my card with me, so it was a big drag to log onto online banking or anything else requiring that thing.

Now, they've done a phone app which basically does the same thing, but instead of the card you use your fingerprint (or, presumably, a PIN if you don't have a finger or reader). Since I nearly always have my phone with me I've started to use that account in anger again.

Security is fine until it becomes intrusive, and then it's just a matter of whether you can find a workaround (negating the point of it) or stop using it (again, defeating the point of it).

As the OP states quite clearly, its all convenient if you have some device that you would otherwise need (which you do). Nice to provide options for people, rather than forcing everyone a single method causing hate either way:
A everyone must carry around an additional device when they don't see the point (you complain), or
B everyone must own a recent smartphone with a supported OS (OP complains)

Whats silly is that many of the apps which are being pushed out by companies to secure their platforms are just a standard (RFC 6238) but wrapped up in their branded app. Which might come with some extra functionality convenient for some, but because its an app then locks in end users to specific OS/platforms/versions. If they'd offer the app as a (default) option but make it easy to set up your own code generator if you preferred then most of the problems would disappear.

[GlennSprigg]

In non-US English-speaking countries, "-quotation marks are nested inside '-quotation marks, while in the US it is typical to nest '-marks inside "-marks.
For example,  "He called me a 'Yankee' online", she complained.

Sure, yeah, but that's not what I'm getting at. Glenn just sprinkles single-quote marks around random words for no apparent reason.

FIRSTLY, thank you, to the many other people who responded as intended/expected. Like one of 'Eti's responses saying...
"SMS is notoriously insecure for 2FA, whereas app-based "authenticators" are less so (app-arrently)".
That was very helpful, as I've (until now), not even heard of *2FA*. Now I can research further. To certain others, I stated that my Post covered
multiple topics, and even apologized for that, sigh...  Was as much about Customers, and Options and more, as well as 'security'.

Now...
"TimFox" at least explained 1 reason, why I might have had quote-marks around the word, 'programmer'.
however, you kept going on about how 'random' (*random*!!) my usage was, and how it making no sense!??
*Others* had nicely pointed out though, that maybe you should be less pedantic about ridiculing me,
(or anyone!), instead of just taking the whole post for what it was, and what was intended !!!

I don't know why I'm bothering here, but I'm a human being, with feelings, and I feel that I have a right to defend
myself, even though I shouldn't *have* to, apart from now *wasting-time* and space on the Forum. However!...
I had explained ages ago, when certain people used to complain, that I do not think that a sentence or paragraph in
posts/replies should have to be grammatically structured, as in a book, or literary work!  It's a SHORT description,
purely aimed at getting a brief message across, and including often certain simply key 'highlighted' words/names!
And when I use them, it is NOT *random*, but simply highlighting some of those 'key' words, to gloss over. For that,
I make no apologies, as it is obvious to many others that know me, and not your right to condescension & arrogance!

WORST OF THE WORST though, however, was the simply 'ABOMINAL' rant that "Shock" above, attacked me!!!  It's one thing
to ask/mention a downfall of mine or two... and a totally separate thing to go on & on talking about my intelligence,
social standing & mental competence, under the guise of being a 'professional' responder, and being a Moderator??
I say that, because he 'finished' by saying that if I even dare to respond to him, he'll delete it all !!  W.T.F. ??
Well my response to 'him' is simply that I feel sorry for him, and how can he even fit hit head through a doorway!!

P.S. dear "Shock". It might make you 'happy' to know that no, I am NOT well, physically, mentally, medically now, after
many decades of useful & intelligent/productive employment, and now left with not much time & very limited capacity.
*Some* people here get that, from what I've said/hinted at for many months, and realize "that's just Glenn"...
I've certainly learned/learnt this year that 'Brain-Power'/knowledge has 'little' to do what is necessary for humans
to 'get-along'.  True Understanding & Compassion with Humanity leave the likes of you 'Savant-ly' isolated.
Do with me what you wish, if that 'power' brings you joy. Certain Personal Messages have led to MY joy.

P.S. EDIT...
It seems his comment has been deleted....

[PlainName]

Withdrawn: should have been a private message.

[GlennSprigg]

I do not think that a sentence or paragraph in
posts/replies should have to be grammatically structured, as in a book, or literary work!

Indeed, and we would normally make allowances for English being a second or third language, dyslexia, and plain old faux spelling correction.

It's a SHORT description,
purely aimed at getting a brief message across

But this is the crux of it. You want to get your message across, so it's incumbent on you to try to do that clearly. Ignoring any of the grammer issues, the use of multiple different emphasis schemes and inappropriate quotes (regardless of whether they are single or double, or now even asterisks!) just makes your text really very hard to read. It's almost as if you want it to be hard to read. Just dropping everything that isn't plain text and punctuation would make it a lot easier to get your message across.

Think about a nice schematic diagram, and then consider the same thing but now with three different symbols for resistors, dashed lines for connections in random places and coils labelled D1 etc.

The other aspect is that people judge a book from the cover. It's something humans do in all sorts of fields, from noticing what people wear through to how they pronounce words. Your prose looks like something a poorly-educated juvenile delinquent would write. Granted, you use whole words mostly correctly spelled so it's actually much better than that but, to notice, one has to want to read the stuff and the world-view look of it doesn't encourage that.

So, maybe try not using bold, no italics, no quotes (not needed unless you are quoting what someone actually said). Just trying writing something that is simple text, and once that feels OK then you might better use emphasis (in moderation).

Ah-ha... Ah-ha... So you think those comments in Red say anything about your compassion/understanding Just another Trolling bully!!!!
Maybe read the last Paragraph I wrote above, in my last main answer,  before feeling a need to troll/abuse!! you sanctimonious excuse for a compassionate human!

[PlainName]

Similarly, should have been a private message.

[eti]

I do not think that a sentence or paragraph in
posts/replies should have to be grammatically structured, as in a book, or literary work!

Indeed, and we would normally make allowances for English being a second or third language, dyslexia, and plain old faux spelling correction.

It's a SHORT description,
purely aimed at getting a brief message across

But this is the crux of it. You want to get your message across, so it's incumbent on you to try to do that clearly. Ignoring any of the grammer issues, the use of multiple different emphasis schemes and inappropriate quotes (regardless of whether they are single or double, or now even asterisks!) just makes your text really very hard to read. It's almost as if you want it to be hard to read. Just dropping everything that isn't plain text and punctuation would make it a lot easier to get your message across.

Think about a nice schematic diagram, and then consider the same thing but now with three different symbols for resistors, dashed lines for connections in random places and coils labelled D1 etc.

The other aspect is that people judge a book from the cover. It's something humans do in all sorts of fields, from noticing what people wear through to how they pronounce words. Your prose looks like something a poorly-educated juvenile delinquent would write. Granted, you use whole words mostly correctly spelled so it's actually much better than that but, to notice, one has to want to read the stuff and the world-view look of it doesn't encourage that.

So, maybe try not using bold, no italics, no quotes (not needed unless you are quoting what someone actually said). Just trying writing something that is simple text, and once that feels OK then you might better use emphasis (in moderation).

Did you READ his explanation? (different to the photons striking your retina). Could you not maybe consider to calm down with the style/grammar policing? (btw, you've spelt "grammar" incorrectly, if we are to follow your example of correctness in all things - how utterly tedious)

Give the guy a break, he's a nice chap, you're bringing out the worst in people through your need to "be right" and utter pedantry.

[RJSV]

   I'd love to install MY 'Turn The Tables App'...
  To them 'Adnoid Op Sys' folks I'd require every damn thing, passwords must be 15 or more disassociated characters... THEN, I'd take their complaint:
   OXYGEN not working, (spaceship whiners),
    Folks having a house fire: "What...oh sir...please log in, while I Google 'house fire procedure...'
   Oh, what, no food, in your mansion, please enter password, / user name to 'get started' with my helping you...

[PlainName]

Ah-ha... Ah-ha... So you think those comments in Red say anything about your compassion/understanding Just another Trolling bully!!!!

After reflecting on this I accept your accusation and criticism. Although I stand by what I wrote, and espectially the intent behind it, I should have sent it as a private message rather than post it in public. For that I apologise and have withdrawn my post.

(Of course, since you and my good friend ETI have quoted it in full that makes little difference, but the option is there for you to edit your quote if you wish.)