Relocation problems trying to stay in Electronics work in UK

[Faringdon]

Hi,
Has anyone realised how bad things are getting with regard to accomodation in UK?
This is severely impacting on Electronics engineers ability to travel and relocate  to new Electronics jobs in different parts of the country.

The UK electronics industry is  scarce, and so EE's need to relocate often to be able to stay in work.
But relocation in UK is getting harder and harder, and much more expensive.
There are plenty of empty properties around, but the problem's still just getting worse.

Back in pre-2006, when you relocated to another part of UK for a job, you would simply  get
a landlord name from the local paper, go along, shove 2 months rent and a deposit in their hand, and you'd get
the keys to the flat or bedsit.
You could leave before the 6 or 12 month tennancy expired, and they just rented it out to someone else.
You would loose your depost and pre-payed rent, but that was by the by.

Now, if you leave an accomodation contract inside the 6 months  or 12 months,  they get a private detective to track you down
and  threaten you with the courts if you dont pay the remaining rent.

A 6 month minimum term should be illegal, it should be 2 months max. After all, in UK, you often relocate to
an electronics company and find out that its really just a "token" electronics company, and not got real
electronics work at all. So then you have to leave and find somewhere else to work...which inevitably involves relocation
again to another  different part of UK.

I relocated to one Electronics job, and  when i got there, found that my job was just to be a "slave" to a new MSc Electronics graduate.
I was told to transfer all my Power Supply knowledge to him.
He wasnt even interested in learning electronics. His father (who owned an electronics company) was just paying
the company to give his son his first 2 years "experience" in electronics. The new_grad wouldnt  take any of my advice.
He would sit on the lab bench, and so any work had to be done through him, but then he would just go on his phone, or
sit there making solder pools on the ESD mat....strirring the molten solder round and round...just wasting time.

One time we had these Push pull SMPS's  that another engineer had screwed up....they made us hand re-wire the PCBs to get them working.
It all needed twisted pair wiring.....but the new grad refused to twist the wires as i requested....so the push pulls still didnt work.
I had to then come into the company for the whole weekend unpayed and re-do them so that they worked for a customer visit on the monday.
This kind of thing happened often.

This is just one example. I relocated to another company that said they had plans for loads of R&D work.....but when i got there this was not so.
They  made a rubbish "token" product,  just to make them look like an Electronics
company, but the gaffer was only interested in his "backroom" Electronics importation  business. He imported massive amounts of
Electronics in from China. So again, you need to leave such places, and again relocate somewhere else.

[tggzzz]

...
There are plenty of empty properties around, but the problem's still just getting worse.
...
Now, if you leave an accomodation contract inside the 6 months  or 12 months,  they get a private detective to track you down
and  threaten you with the courts if you dont pay the remaining rent.

A 6 month minimum term should be illegal, it should be 2 months max.
...
found that my job was just to be a "slave" to a new MSc Electronics graduate.
...
One time we had these Push pull SMPS's  that another engineer had screwed up....they made us hand re-wire the PCBs to get them working.
...
This is just one example. I relocated to another company that said they had plans for loads of R&D work.....but when i got there this was not so.
They  made a rubbish "token" product,  just to make them look like an Electronics
company, but the gaffer was only interested in his "backroom" Electronics importation  business. He imported massive amounts of
Electronics in from China. So again, you need to leave such places, and again relocate somewhere else.

UK property is an off-topic rant.

From that it looks like you broke a rent contract and are complaining about debt-chasing bailiffs. Snort. Use the law, Luke, use the law.

A couple of rants about poor jobs. We've all seen those.

Amd your usual rant about China.

[themadhippy]

I had to then come into the company for the whole weekend unpayed and re-do them

more fool you,grow a pair and tell em were to go.

[nctnico]

...
There are plenty of empty properties around, but the problem's still just getting worse.
...
Now, if you leave an accomodation contract inside the 6 months  or 12 months,  they get a private detective to track you down
and  threaten you with the courts if you dont pay the remaining rent.

A 6 month minimum term should be illegal, it should be 2 months max.
...
found that my job was just to be a "slave" to a new MSc Electronics graduate.
...
One time we had these Push pull SMPS's  that another engineer had screwed up....they made us hand re-wire the PCBs to get them working.
...
This is just one example. I relocated to another company that said they had plans for loads of R&D work.....but when i got there this was not so.
They  made a rubbish "token" product,  just to make them look like an Electronics
company, but the gaffer was only interested in his "backroom" Electronics importation  business. He imported massive amounts of
Electronics in from China. So again, you need to leave such places, and again relocate somewhere else.

UK property is an off-topic rant.

From that it looks like you broke a rent contract and are complaining about debt-chasing bailiffs. Snort. Use the law, Luke, use the law.

A couple of rants about poor jobs. We've all seen those.

Amd your usual rant about China.

It is always 5 o'clock for Faringdon 

[mikeselectricstuff]

You could leave before the 6 or 12 month tennancy expired, and they just rented it out to someone else.
You would loose your depost and pre-payed rent, but that was by the by.

Now, if you leave an accomodation contract inside the 6 months  or 12 months,  they get a private detective to track you down
and  threaten you with the courts if you dont pay the remaining rent.

Empty threats.
If it came to court, the landlord could only recover rent for any vacant period, and cost of re-letting.  They would have to show that they had taken reasonable steps to minimise their losses. Rental property is typically in very high demand due to low supply for several reasons, so there wouldn't normally be any problem re-letting it very quickly.
Deposits are a seperate issue, and are held in a third-party deposit scheme, and deductions are typically allowed only against damage etc.  with third-party adjudication in the case of disputes.

[jpanhalt]

In  the US, similar rules apply, and enforcement is almost always in what we call "small claims court."  Those differ in many ways from a regular court, namely no discovery and rules for evidence are relaxed.  They rarely have a jury.

The biggest downside is that skipping out on a lease can affect one's credit score, and future landlords often check credit scores before leasing to you.  That can present a difficulty in a landlord's market.

[Faringdon]

Empty threats.
If it came to court, the landlord could only recover rent for any vacant period, and cost of re-letting.  They would have to show that they had taken reasonable steps to minimise their losses. Rental property is typically in very high demand due to low supply for several reasons, so there wouldn't normally be any problem re-letting it very quickly.

Thanks, i hope you are right....once i relocated to  a big company, and three months later it went bust.....leaving  me with 9 months still to go on a 12 month rent contract.
The next job i could get was 160 miles away....no chance of commuting it......so i had to just leave....and for the next few years, i got massive numbers of "we are going to financially destroy you" emails from the estate agent because i broke contract....what else was i supposed to do?.......i had paid up in rent and council tax for all the time that i was actually there...plus they kept my deposit.
Its criminial that estate agents and landlords  are allowed to operate like this. Just essentially corruption.
Was not my fault that the company went under.

[mikeselectricstuff]

...and for the next few years, i got massive numbers of "we are going to financially destroy you" emails from the estate agent because i broke contract

If they thought they had a case they would have gone to court.

plus they kept my deposit.

Did you dispute this with the deposit-holding company?
(BTW if they didn't use one, then you have a guaranteed win in court for ISTR about 2 or 3x the deposit amount)

[jpanhalt]

Just another fabricated story.  A major change in life is usually more than adequate to break a lease and landlords know that.  Apartment lease law favors the tenant.  However, someone who is looking to rent a refrigerator box for 3 weeks is a different story.

[tggzzz]

Empty threats.
If it came to court, the landlord could only recover rent for any vacant period, and cost of re-letting.  They would have to show that they had taken reasonable steps to minimise their losses. Rental property is typically in very high demand due to low supply for several reasons, so there wouldn't normally be any problem re-letting it very quickly.

Thanks, i hope you are right....once i relocated to  a big company, and three months later it went bust.....leaving  me with 9 months still to go on a 12 month rent contract.
The next job i could get was 160 miles away....no chance of commuting it......so i had to just leave....and for the next few years, i got massive numbers of "we are going to financially destroy you" emails from the estate agent because i broke contract....what else was i supposed to do?.......i had paid up in rent and council tax for all the time that i was actually there...plus they kept my deposit.
Its criminial that estate agents and landlords  are allowed to operate like this. Just essentially corruption.
Was not my fault that the company went under.

The estate agent's commission probably disappeared when you left; they wouldn't like that, and that might lead to threats.

You should have got reliable legal advice from a professional, not someone down the pub or on a forum (hint hint). Citizens Advice Bureau deals with this kind of topic all day every day, and they would have advised you of your rights - for free if you couldn't pay. I would be very very very surprised if you couldn't have broken the lease, for one of several reasons.

My daughter learned "the system" when she was renting, and knew how to play it to her advantage. You could have done the same.

My daughter stands up for herself when estate agents and landlords attempt to bully her. When they make empty threats (e.g. ruining you financially), she gathers evidence and legal opinions - and points out the consequences of libel and slander.

That all started when she was at university, and I refused to act as a guarantor for some ridiculously one-sided tenancy agreements. She went and found a sensible balanced tenancy agreement, gave it to the agent, and the agent just accepted it.

As for deposits: nothing new there. Tenants don't pay the last month's rent in then anticipation that their deposit will be withheld.

[Ian.M]

He doesn't do too well with landlords!  Remember https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/need-to-rent-work-space-for-electronics-soldering/ ?

[jc101]

Do you do any due diligence with applying for / accepting a job - to have some idea who are working for?
Do you ask questions in the interview?

Many contractors I know negotiate with the likes of an AirBnB place for some fixed term accommodation.  At least until they get their feet under the table and work out if it's worth basing themselves in a particular location for a period.

[Simon]

Hi,
Has anyone realised how bad things are getting with regard to accomodation in UK?
This is severely impacting on Electronics engineers ability to travel and relocate  to new Electronics jobs in different parts of the country.

The UK electronics industry is  scarce, and so EE's need to relocate often to be able to stay in work.
But relocation in UK is getting harder and harder, and much more expensive.
There are plenty of empty properties around, but the problem's still just getting worse.

Back in pre-2006, when you relocated to another part of UK for a job, you would simply  get
a landlord name from the local paper, go along, shove 2 months rent and a deposit in their hand, and you'd get
the keys to the flat or bedsit.
You could leave before the 6 or 12 month tennancy expired, and they just rented it out to someone else.
You would loose your depost and pre-payed rent, but that was by the by.

Now, if you leave an accomodation contract inside the 6 months  or 12 months,  they get a private detective to track you down
and  threaten you with the courts if you dont pay the remaining rent.

A 6 month minimum term should be illegal, it should be 2 months max. After all, in UK, you often relocate to
an electronics company and find out that its really just a "token" electronics company, and not got real
electronics work at all. So then you have to leave and find somewhere else to work...which inevitably involves relocation
again to another  different part of UK.

I relocated to one Electronics job, and  when i got there, found that my job was just to be a "slave" to a new MSc Electronics graduate.
I was told to transfer all my Power Supply knowledge to him.
He wasnt even interested in learning electronics. His father (who owned an electronics company) was just paying
the company to give his son his first 2 years "experience" in electronics. The new_grad wouldnt  take any of my advice.
He would sit on the lab bench, and so any work had to be done through him, but then he would just go on his phone, or
sit there making solder pools on the ESD mat....strirring the molten solder round and round...just wasting time.

One time we had these Push pull SMPS's  that another engineer had screwed up....they made us hand re-wire the PCBs to get them working.
It all needed twisted pair wiring.....but the new grad refused to twist the wires as i requested....so the push pulls still didnt work.
I had to then come into the company for the whole weekend unpayed and re-do them so that they worked for a customer visit on the monday.
This kind of thing happened often.

This is just one example. I relocated to another company that said they had plans for loads of R&D work.....but when i got there this was not so.
They  made a rubbish "token" product,  just to make them look like an Electronics
company, but the gaffer was only interested in his "backroom" Electronics importation  business. He imported massive amounts of
Electronics in from China. So again, you need to leave such places, and again relocate somewhere else.

For the love of god just go away! what the hell are you on this time? why do you have to take every misinterpreted aspect of your personal life and turn it into state on the the nation addresses and moan about china.

[tom66]

Empty threats.
If it came to court, the landlord could only recover rent for any vacant period, and cost of re-letting.  They would have to show that they had taken reasonable steps to minimise their losses. Rental property is typically in very high demand due to low supply for several reasons, so there wouldn't normally be any problem re-letting it very quickly.

Thanks, i hope you are right....once i relocated to  a big company, and three months later it went bust.....leaving  me with 9 months still to go on a 12 month rent contract.
The next job i could get was 160 miles away....no chance of commuting it......so i had to just leave....and for the next few years, i got massive numbers of "we are going to financially destroy you" emails from the estate agent because i broke contract....what else was i supposed to do?.......i had paid up in rent and council tax for all the time that i was actually there...plus they kept my deposit.
Its criminial that estate agents and landlords  are allowed to operate like this. Just essentially corruption.
Was not my fault that the company went under.

Why do you think rental contracts should operate like hotels?

It sounds like you want all the benefit of cheaper rent with none of the downsides - e.g. agreeing to a contract.   If you want shorter term rentals use AirBNB, spareroom, find a lodging, look at long term hotel stays, etc... There are plenty of options.

I find it very very hard to believe you had to move 160 miles away to find a better job.  Well, hard to believe if what you are saying is true, of course.

[Ian.M]

I find it very very hard to believe you had to move 160 miles away to find a better job.  Well, hard to believe if what you are saying is true, of course.

I don't!  Anyone in the same industry nearby had probably already heard about his quirks  from his previous employer.   He'd have to go far enough to get away from his boss and colleagues gossiping about his latest antics down the pub! 

[Gyro]

It's rather sad to watch someone's 'career' going that far round the U bend, (according to his CV) he worked for some respectable companies at one time. If only he'd known when he was well off and not tried to be something he's clearly not.

[tom66]

I find it very very hard to believe you had to move 160 miles away to find a better job.  Well, hard to believe if what you are saying is true, of course.

I don't!  Anyone in the same industry nearby had probably already heard about his quirks  from his previous employer.   He'd have to go far enough to get away from his boss and colleagues gossiping about his latest antics down the pub!

Sorry if that wasn't clear from my subtext.  If you read Faringdon's posts, you'll find out he's the best SMPS engineer there is, and if it wasn't for MSc students/bad employers/UK plc hating making money/China/Brexit and not-Brexit/the EU everything would be great.

[tggzzz]

It's rather sad to watch someone's 'career' going that far round the U bend, (according to his CV) he worked for some respectable companies at one time. If only he'd known when he was well off and not tried to be something he's clearly not.

Seconded.

I've been thinking similar thoughts.

It is a great shame that he can't take hints; I suspect his life.would be easier if he did.

[coppice]

I find it very very hard to believe you had to move 160 miles away to find a better job.  Well, hard to believe if what you are saying is true, of course.

Even 50 years ago, when electronics jobs in the UK were much more plentiful, an enormous number of engineers had to relocate numerous times as they changed jobs. People chose homes based on there being a reasonable amount of industry within 20-30 miles. As the industry has gone downhill, the jobs must have thinned out, and made that less practical. Especially when some of the best locations are the most expensive.

[Zero999]

The property market in the UK is a joke, but it's political, so I'll refrain from ranting.

Presumably the OP is single and lives alone. If he moves around that much, then a camper van might be more suitable, rather than a flat. All he needs to do is register himself as living with a named friend or family member for the purposes of employment, taxation etc.

[jpanhalt]

Here's an eye opener:


That doesn't include the freebies.

[temperance]

You can try to make money on YT together with the guy who calls everything this little guy who complains about Dave getting better free stuff to review. If you and him would setup a rant channel you could be millionaires because it seems some people like people who rant.

The interesting part is that some people who like those rants write in the comments things like: you are so smart I don't understand anything of what you're saying but I still keep watching...

[abeyer]

Here's an eye opener:

wtf is a "homeless people job" and how do you even define that as a sensible statistic?

[nigelwright7557]

Getting the wrong job can be a real pain.

After doing a year getting my city and guilds in industrial electronics I joined a local business as a test engineer.

I quickly learned how the equipment worked and after a little while was finding I could fix them as well.
I was the promoted to work in R&D.
The boss's father came in one day and put me back on testing.
I wasnt very happy.
Later I was put back in R&D.
A new engineer joined and I was again put back on testing.
So I left.
The next day I got the companies accountant knocking on the door.
He said they hadnt realised I was a Z80 assembler program and they needed a new project engineer.
They had thought the new engineer was going to do it but found out he couldnt.
I went back for double pay.

I gave it 3 months and could see they werent getting many sales so  I left to work for another local business.
3 months later the previous company went bust.
I guess what goes around comes around.

[Andy Chee]

Here's an eye opener:

wtf is a "homeless people job" and how do you even define that as a sensible statistic?

It's a person who has a job, but cannot afford a mortgage or rent.

Typical job might be a cleaner or grocery shelf stacker, but they're living out of their car, and going to the gym to use the shower.

[abeyer]

It's a person who has a job, but cannot afford a mortgage or rent.

Typical job might be a cleaner or grocery shelf stacker, but they're living out of their car, and going to the gym to use the shower.

Yeah, I get that's what I think that was trying to say... but its numbers seem pretty dubious. I'd consider the claim that there are significant numbers of people who are homeless while making $60k salaries pretty extraordinary and in need of a lot more definition of your terms and justification before I'm going to believe it. NYC is the only of those I have somewhat recent direct experience with: While yes, you could absolutely not afford to rent in a fancy new Manhattan highrise even for your full paycheck, prices drop significantly as you move to smaller landlords in the outer boroughs. Point of reference, when I left NY I was renting a basic but clean/safe/functional and pretty large 1 BR about a 30 minute commute from midtown for $1500/m.

[nigelwright7557]

Having bad work colleagues can be a nightmare.

I was given some work to do so got on with it.
Half way through the job a delivery van arrived to pick them up.
The secretary had booked the van without asking me when they would be ready.
I was told off ! so I left the business.