Author Topic: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......  (Read 63216 times)

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Offline ndictu

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #150 on: July 04, 2011, 09:31:12 pm »
No because not everyone will just download books, people will still buy them. I have a both a real and a virtual copy of The Art of Electronics and will probably buy the third edition too. Especially if I find a place to download it and enjoy reading it a lot, I'd be even more motivated to buy it than I would've been without that opportunity.

Still, I don't see how borrowing a book from the library or second hand store is worse for the author than downloading it.

Just to be clear, my remark about stealing was a just a joke. Let's not turn this topic into another flamewar about piracy.

I think in the digital age if you download something you weren't going to pay for, it's not a lost sale. However, if you like something, you should pay the authors. This is true of everything - books, movies, music, software ...

For example, I haven't seen Dawkins' books in my local bookstore, and neither the Art of Electronics. I have downloaded both, and since I like them I already have the AoE + student manual coming from Amazon. I will probably order the Selfish Gene some day, once again because I like it so much. I think of the download as a kind of a trail. The same way you skip through a book in the bookstore, now you can download it, read the first few pages and decide if you want it.

Of course there are people who think piracy is going to kill the <..> industry but really, it has been around forever and nothing happened. People like a movie, buy the DVD. Like music, go to concert. Like a game, buy it to get multiplayer. It's a sort of advertising, and the net result is positive. Most indie game developers and small bands get it. Many books are available to download for free directly from the author's site, and you can also buy them in print. Unfortunately, all the big corporations with their DRM, lawsuits, C&D don't get it.

Just my 2cents. I don't think it's wrong to download a book and try it, but I'm not going to provide people with the links.
 

Offline ndictu

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #151 on: July 04, 2011, 09:38:56 pm »
scientists/archeologists are searching for the past big armageddon, they found proofs in ice/soil sediments (big flood and big volcano sulphur trace) etc, i used to watch that in national geographic, you may find it in the net i think.
They also found evidence of earth being 4.5 billion years old, and most stuff in the bible being false. But I guess you don't care about that, since it disagrees with your world view.

Science is not something you can cherry-pick from. Either you accept everything, or nothing.

you can never find such text as "godless literature" in our library. i've never found aethist (or even jews) in my country, we are all religious population islam, christian, buddha live in harmony
I find that incredibly sad, and hope it's not true. What is the point of reading a book that just reaffirms your world view? You might as well write your own book, then read it. And you won't learn anything new. I pity the atheists in your country.
 

Offline gregariz

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #152 on: July 04, 2011, 09:45:41 pm »
how can something that was so important be believed today with such an unreliable information system as word of mouth. The only thing you can really say is that since the books were written people have been brainwashed in a consistent way.
there are Hafeez in Islamic dictionary, even until now. Since prophet and most friends were illiterate, they used to memorized full content of it and be tested for competency annually, usually in the month of Ramadhan, it took many years that way after the prophet died. But since many Hafeez died during Crusades - Christian Islam War the ruler, or Caliphate make initiative to make it in writing. So thats the first written version. and later some ammendment in writing style to make reading easier to non-arabic literate people, but still maintaining alphabet count, only addition of dash at the top and bottom of alphabet, full stop and verse numbering which do not count in content "checksum". arabic writing (original language) is maintained even in translated version of the holy book. another history for that.


That was my point. Because that period of history was unrecorded except through word of mouth the message is, IMO, unreliable. And hence the bible/Quran/insert_special_holy_book are unreliable.

If you accept this as unreliable it does not make you an un-believer for which you will go to hell, it makes you instead a do-not-believe-until-reasonable-evidence-is-produced person. You have the ten commandments - thats all you need - if you want to believe then believe that and leave the rest of it asside. I like to think that if there is a god he will take a dim view of the present system of blind-faith and the people who subscribe to it.

Looking at the literacy rates in the Middle east today, you can only imagine what they were over a thousand years ago.
http://middleeast.about.com/od/middleeast101/a/me090425b.htm
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 09:52:46 pm by gregariz »
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #153 on: July 04, 2011, 09:49:31 pm »
and thats the point of hell and heaven story, good and bad. to make it delusive, arguably unreliable, and even... un-measurable. (up to my logical thinking) so, from my probabilistic analytical skill earlier, you may choose:
a) fullstop or hell (no pray, no belief, become an aethist... or "pure scientist? isnt that a religion?)
b) fullstop, hell or heaven (with hardwork of praying, and become the believer of a unprovable "delusion")
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 10:02:03 pm by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline gregariz

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #154 on: July 04, 2011, 09:58:18 pm »
and thats the point of hell and heaven story, good and bad. to make it delusive, arguably unreliable, and even... un-measurable. (up to my logical thinking) so, from my probabilistic analytical skill earlier, you may choose:
a) fullstop or hell (no pray, no belief, become an aethist)
b) fullstop, hell or heaven (with hardwork of praying, and become the believer of a unprovable "delusion")

No, there is the position of Agnostic. An Atheist is someone who has considered the evidence and chosen to dismiss it as wrong - hell is not a concept to them. An Agnostic has determined that considering the evidence it is unknowable. The Agnostic does not dismiss hell, heaven or fullstop's other than to say - we don't know.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #155 on: July 04, 2011, 10:07:00 pm »
and to the definition of "religion with God", you dont have faith, and hence heaven (or probably hell) is not an option for you (err i mean Agnostic), until its proven otherwise. but according to the Quran (i've been quoting it as 4th edition, sad), once you've proved it (the existence of God, hell heaven etc), its already too late. or in other word, in religious point of view, Agnotism = Atheism. or in another word, agnostic needs proof to believe, but since there is no proof, hence there is no God. or let put it as, agnostics are "sceptic" of the existence of God. and in religious point of view Sceptic = Not Believing.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 10:19:33 pm by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline gregariz

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #156 on: July 04, 2011, 10:13:01 pm »
and to the definition of "religion with God", you dont have faith, and hence heaven (or probably hell) is not an option for you (err i mean Agnostic), until its proven otherwise. but according to the Quran (i've been quoting it as 4th edition, sad), once you've proved it (the existence of God, hell heaven etc), its already too late.

All churches and cults have their own -" do this or you will go to hell stories."

As an agnostic to me this makes no sense. It is most likely a product of people who have a vested interest in the church or the power around it. This is partly why agnostics and atheists consider the holy books to be unreliable - because they benefit the power of a church. These books are full of it.

The reason it makes no sense is that if there really was a god he would not be interested in having people pray to him all day unless he was a ego-maniac. His interest would be in how we lead better lives.
 

Offline Zero999

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #157 on: July 04, 2011, 10:16:41 pm »
and to the definition of "religion with God", you dont have faith, and hence heaven (or probably hell) is not an option for you (err i mean Agnostic), until its proven otherwise. but according to the Quran (i've been quoting it as 4th edition, sad), once you've proved it (the existence of God, hell heaven etc), its already too late. or in other word, in religious point of view, Agnotism = Atheism. and in another word, agnostic needs prove to believe, but since there is no proof, hence there is no god. or let put it as, agnostics are "sceptic" of the existence of God. and in religios point of view Sceptic = Not Believing.

Not all religion is about God or lack of thereof and heaven and hell surely you've heard of Buddhism? There's no God in Buddhism, look it up.

All religions are is a set of stories and beliefs passed down through the generations. Christianity is a mixture of Judaism and Paganism. I don't know much about Islam but I understand it's been influenced by Christianity.
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #158 on: July 04, 2011, 10:24:08 pm »
yes buddhism is belief to one single man. and as i said earlier, is not listed or not inlined with the 4 version of holy book. one day "aethism/agnotism" and "science'sm" too will become religion i suspect.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Armin_Balija

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #159 on: July 04, 2011, 10:58:51 pm »
All religious texts were written by Men.

Men = Fallible.

The end.
 

Offline ndictu

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #160 on: July 04, 2011, 11:06:29 pm »
yes buddhism is belief to one single man. and as i said earlier, is not listed or not inlined with the 4 version of holy book. one day "aethism/agnotism" and "science'sm" too will become religion i suspect.
Someone should write a 5th version of that book, it's getting outdated.

Also, I wouldn't call it a religion since it's misleading, but I hope I will live to the day when science is the most widespread "religion" on this planet and current religions get forgotten.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #161 on: July 04, 2011, 11:44:24 pm »
but I hope I will live to the day when science is the most widespread "religion" on this planet and current religions get forgotten.

No mater how long you will live, there is no chance to see one alive religion,
to get forgotten.

Science is just a toy, in the hands of the humans.
If Science had inside it, something more and deep as meaning, today in our times we would not had diseases and starvation.
Science looks powerless and it is.

Your holy grail, does not look that shiny to me.  :)
 

Offline Armin_Balija

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #162 on: July 05, 2011, 12:26:17 am »
but I hope I will live to the day when science is the most widespread "religion" on this planet and current religions get forgotten.

No mater how long you will live, there is no chance to see one alive religion,
to get forgotten.

Science is just a toy, in the hands of the humans.
If Science had inside it, something more and deep as meaning, today in our times we would not had diseases and starvation.
Science looks powerless and it is.

Your holy grail, does not look that shiny to me.  :)

Kiriakos,

Take what I have to say with a grain of salt. I know that you have experience over me in life, electronics, and other things. I believe you are a bit misguided. Although I do believe it'd be impossible to eradicate religion altogether, science has done more for humanity than religion has in the past 6,000 years.

The fact is, because of science, people are living longer, healthier lives. Less people are hungry now than have ever been hungry before. Less people now are homeless than before. Science brings us comfort in the form of physical and intellectual means. It leaves a spiritual gap, but that is filled by religion. I for one, do not need religion to feel like I am contributing to society and have a good moral compass.

I do not need the comfort of an afterlife to soothe me when I go to sleep. I know that I may not wake up tomorrow, it's what I do today that counts.
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #163 on: July 05, 2011, 01:04:13 am »
No because not everyone will just download books, people will still buy them. I have a both a real and a virtual copy of The Art of Electronics and will probably buy the third edition too.

But without copyright people will buy a copy of the book from whoever can print it the cheapest and the author still gets nothing and would not have bothered writing it in the first place.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #164 on: July 05, 2011, 01:43:49 am »
Kiriakos-GR, don't tell me it was a miracle from heaven you got your bike back.

Do you realize that there are thousands of hungry children dieing everyday in this world for the lord to care about someone's motorcycle? The thousands of babies, women, children, and men who drowned in the tsunami? There are people living in hunger and pain everyday.

There are hundreds of children and people borned with birth defects. Today, I saw a normal looking child borned with a mental disorder. He just keep yelling, and his mother keep him still by holding his hand.  Yesterday, I saw a little girl in a pretty little dress who's eyes are crossed.

It's illogical that the lord rather do a miracle on someone's motorcyle over a child's health.

If this is how the lord works, I'll personally give him the middle finger. Two fingers while I am at it!
 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #165 on: July 05, 2011, 03:06:03 am »
in Kiriakos case, i can rule Jinn of ghost, beside angel or even God as possibility. Witch is still "not so common" practice here. With a good witch, you can find your lost item given you comply to certain rule such as you remember the date of the lost, and he can even tell the current condition of the item remotely before we even get there and still in the witch's house. Its no magic here, its witch, who uses Jinn as servant. Kiri, its maybe Satan whispering in your ear! :D

All religious texts were written by Men.
Men = Fallible.
The end.
can you prove that? i've given my science fiction. yours? well, of course its written by Men! but the idea is from God, just like Kiri got the whisper. nothing is made up by mere human thinking, 100% content from God, written by Men, with stringent checking from "you know who"

...science has done more for humanity than religion has in the past 6,000 years.
you have lost in modernization. you should learn a lot more in broader scope of history. I suspect you dont even know or hear the story who Jesus is, or even Mohamad, the last prophet. or maybe you are refering to how the age of "reasoning" of science saved humanity from Old Fanatically Religious Roman Catholics? and maybe its been erased from you that it was Islamic Civilization that teach European how to have a proper public bath/restroom and road and pretty much everything in civilization? Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe When Islam is in its Glory, Europeans still walk in the mud. But now, the teacher is labelled as terrorist by the taught civilization who marvel Science as their "Jesus the Saviour"
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 03:19:31 am by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline Armin_Balija

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #166 on: July 05, 2011, 03:35:52 am »
in Kiriakos case, i can rule Jinn of ghost, beside angel or even God as possibility. Witch is still "not so common" practice here. With a good witch, you can find your lost item given you comply to certain rule such as you remember the date of the lost, and he can even tell the current condition of the item remotely before we even get there and still in the witch's house. Its no magic here, its witch, who uses Jinn as servant. Kiri, its maybe Satan whispering in your ear! :D

All religious texts were written by Men.
Men = Fallible.
The end.
can you prove that? i've given my science fiction. yours? well, of course its written by Men! but the idea is from God, just like Kiri got the whisper. nothing is made up by mere human thinking, 100% content from God, written by Men, with stringent checking from "you know who"

...science has done more for humanity than religion has in the past 6,000 years.
you have lost in modernization. you should learn a lot more in broader scope of history. I suspect you dont even know or hear the story who Jesus is, or even Mohamad, the last prophet. or maybe you are refering to how the age of "reasoning" of science saved humanity from Old Fanatically Religious Roman Catholics? and maybe its been erased from you that it was Islamic Civilization that teach European how to have a proper public bath/restroom and road and pretty much everything in civilization? Islamic contributions to Medieval Europe When Islam is in its Glory, Europeans still walk in the mud. But now, the teacher is labelled as terrorist by the taught civilization who marvel Science as their "Jesus the Saviour"

The truth of the matter is, I was raised in a Muslim household. I've spent many years reading Hadith, listening to Sheikhs and scholars (One of my favorite being Nouman Ali Khan from the Bayyinah Institute) and I've come to the conclusion that it's just a farce.

Here's the deal, I know where you're coming from. For most of my life I was raised in an Islamic house. I know what Islam is. I know it's not a violent religion. I know the good that muslims, christians, and jews do within their community and outside.

I'm not trying to tell you to stop believing, but you know it to be true that all religious texts were written by men. I can assure you that the Qur'An has the most magnificent poetry, grammar use and context, but it's a man-made recital. I know it's hard to let it go. I've never had a more severe backlash than when I told my parents and uncle that I'm an atheist. They were so disappointed in me. I can't let that dictate my life though, although I love my parents more than anything in this world, I live for me, not for them. I will make their life a lot easier in terms of wealth and support, but I can't believe something that just doesn't ring true to me.

In any case, You know as well as I do that anyone who uses Jinn in a manner like that (witch) is practicing black magic and under islamic law is to be executed. Is this fair? A little hoax or scam and it's the death penalty? I don't think that's fair really..

Onto the Men = Fallible thing. You know as well as I do that noone is perfect (unless you're going to start preaching to me about how all the prophets of Allah were perfect or else they wouldn't have been chosen as prophets. In case of that, don't even bother because you're just preaching to someone who doesn't think ANYONE is perfect.)

Everyone makes mistakes, even "prophets."

Lastly, I don't want to make you feel like I'm attacking you or that I'm putting you down. I just feel like Islam itself did not create algebra and other mathematics. The people who created mathematics created it not BECAUSE of Islam but rather in spite of it. If Islam were as great as you claim it is, the adherents who are also power wielders in the middle east would modernize and help the common man instead of hoarding all their wealth and building grand Masjids and golden thrones for the King.

Either way, Religion itself has never contributed to anything mathematically, the people who adhered to those religions did. As well, they created the mathematics out of necessity, not because it was divinely inspired.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 03:37:39 am by Armin_Balija »
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #167 on: July 05, 2011, 04:52:15 am »
The truth of the matter is, I was raised in a Muslim household. I've spent many years reading Hadith, listening to Sheikhs and scholars (One of my favorite being Nouman Ali Khan from the Bayyinah Institute) and I've come to the conclusion that it's just a farce.

+thumb for Armin_Balija.  ;) I congradulate you on your breaking away from the biggest brainwashing of mankind. 

 

Online Mechatrommer

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #168 on: July 05, 2011, 08:50:21 am »
yes. i also think i've made my point more than enough. i respect your choice, even if in Islam regulation, penalty for a convert is death, is very hard to comprehend, but ignorant i am i will just take it with grain and salt, with "faith". thats it. only last simple question Armin, did you khatam (complete and understand reading all the Quran verses) before you convert? +1 to aethist/agnostic ally  :-\
Al-Kafirun (The Disbelievers)

« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 09:15:23 am by Mechatrommer »
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline ndictu

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #169 on: July 05, 2011, 11:49:08 am »
even if in Islam regulation, penalty for a convert is death

Guess why ... people converting away from religion is bad so you have to scare them.

Up until now I was hoping this thread could have a meaningful discussion, but both Mechatrommer and Kiriakos are claiming everything that supports their idea as a miracle, and everything that doesn't is ignored.

Science is just a toy, in the hands of the humans.
If Science had inside it, something more and deep as meaning, today in our times we would not had diseases and starvation.
Science looks powerless and it is.

Do you go to a hospital? Do you have a light bulb at your home? Are you using a computer? Drinking clean water? Eating processed food?

You can thank the powerless science for this. I don't know how old are you but there is a pretty good chance you would already be dead by now if it wasn't for modern healthcare. And evolution.

If you hate science so much why do you use it every day? Go live the way people in bible times did.
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #170 on: July 05, 2011, 01:40:00 pm »
Science is just a toy, in the hands of the humans.
If Science had inside it, something more and deep as meaning, today in our times we would not had diseases and starvation.
Science looks powerless and it is.

Do you go to a hospital? Do you have a light bulb at your home? Are you using a computer? Drinking clean water? Eating processed food?

You can thank the powerless science for this. I don't know how old are you but there is a pretty good chance you would already be dead by now if it wasn't for modern healthcare. And evolution.

If you hate science so much why do you use it every day? Go live the way people in bible times did.

Hey its not a shame to admit that your God called as "money". 
There is many out there like you that they have the same God.
They use science as another one merchandise.
And yes , If I run out of money, I do not belong any more in your world that is surrounded by the walls of science.

This is why I had selected an different God than yours .  :)   
 

Offline Kiriakos-GR

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #171 on: July 05, 2011, 02:06:13 pm »
Kiriakos-GR, don't tell me it was a miracle from heaven you got your bike back.

Do you realize that there are thousands of hungry children dieing everyday in this world for the lord to care about someone's motorcycle? The thousands of babies, women, children, and men who drowned in the tsunami? There are people living in hunger and pain everyday.

There are hundreds of children and people borned with birth defects. Today, I saw a normal looking child borned with a mental disorder. He just keep yelling, and his mother keep him still by holding his hand.  Yesterday, I saw a little girl in a pretty little dress who's eyes are crossed.

It's illogical that the lord rather do a miracle on someone's motorcycle over a child's health.

If this is how the lord works, I'll personally give him the middle finger. Two fingers while I am at it!


I am very sorry that my God cannot act like the Rambo - Superman - Spider-man  -  Robocop - Transformers - and many other mythical by Hollywood super heroes.

My God, it supposed that he made you by his own image, and so move you midle finger to the others,
if this is all that you can do, about aiding others !!

I will just remind you that Earth is the kingdom of humans, for any injustice you have to blame them.
As I did about the thieves who was steal the motorcycle of a poor man with a good hart.

In the church they say that the willing of God is unknown ( or better unpredicted ). 
In this case you have only one solution, to hire your own God so to safe keep your own back.

At the positive thinking persons, I would say, that If you do need to seek and contact God,
his is there for you, so to find him.
But you had to bypass  your ego and the what ever authority that you think that you have earn.

The miracles serves two purposes, they are examples of the power of God,
and they are lessons for the unbelievers.
Because I did experienced this miracle and with another person,
I do not know if this lesson of faith was mainly for me ?
Probably my own friend needed it mostly, and I just found my motorcycle too.     :)
 
     
« Last Edit: July 05, 2011, 04:41:15 pm by Kiriakos-GR »
 

Offline Armin_Balija

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #172 on: July 05, 2011, 03:50:35 pm »
yes. i also think i've made my point more than enough. i respect your choice, even if in Islam regulation, penalty for a convert is death, is very hard to comprehend, but ignorant i am i will just take it with grain and salt, with "faith". thats it. only last simple question Armin, did you khatam (complete and understand reading all the Quran verses) before you convert? +1 to aethist/agnostic ally  :-\
Al-Kafirun (The Disbelievers)

Yes, I've done my best to understand and learn from arab scholars as much as possible because I, myself, cannot read or understand arabic. I know that you cannot begin to understand the qur'an unless you know arabic.

However, in my opinion, if Allah was all merciful he would've given us the qur'an with a universal language or the ability for anyone to understand. The biggest problem is the miracle lay in the language, not the book.

To truly comprehend the beauty of the qur'an you must be able to read and recite the qur'an.

I for one, was born with a health problem that I would rather not get into that will cut my life short, I don't see this as merciful. It has only brought pain to me, I don't see how a merciful God could make someone sick.

If he was truly merciful he would never make anyone sick, but rather teach us life lessons through our own personal trials, not something that would affect our families. If you believe it like it has been said, Allah would never punish the children for the transgression of the parents, so why have I been punished?

In the end I'm led to believe that I haven't been "punished" and "God" did not "make" me this way. It was merely a chance. It happens to millions and millions of people. It's no one's fault. I'm not completely debilitated. I can walk, talk, think, do almost everything I want to do. I'm happy with that and I'm always going forward with progress in my mind. I cannot progress if I feel like I have to dwell on my life all day.

You know what has taught me the most in this life? My father. He played chess with me everyday when I was little. He taught me math before I started 1st grade. He helped me put together my first bicycle and he bought me my first tool set. He was a Civil Engineer back in Europe and the one thing I will never forget is when we would play chess, he would never let me win, but I'd get frustrated and want to quit and he'd say "Never give up. Never ever give up. Fight to the last piece. The last pawn. Your king. You never know what can happen if you just give up."

This is the single most important piece of advice I've ever learned. Willpower. He told me if I try hard enough, never give up, and continue forward.. I can do it. Challenges are like walls. Find a way over it or around it, but don't let it stop you.

Wow, I've gone on a pretty bad tangent just now. Sorry about all that. The point I'm trying to make is, I don't give God any credit for my accomplishments because that would take away the meaning of all the work that I and my family have done.
 

Offline MrPlacid

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #173 on: July 05, 2011, 04:03:09 pm »
Do you realize that there are thousands of hungry children dieing everyday in this world for the lord to care about someone's motorcycle?
...
It's illogical that the lord rather do a miracle on someone's motorcycle over a child's health. If this is how the lord works, I'll personally give him the middle finger. Two fingers while I am at it!
My God, it supposed that he made you by his own image, and so move you midle finger to the others, if this is all that you can do, about aiding others !!

I never in my life move a finger toward another human beings. I don't even say curse words. I would only lift my middle finger on behalf of those less fortunates to any god I found after death.

When I watch people claim miracles, it is like watching wealthy rich men pity himself and asking a miracle from god while children are starving or being deprive of life or quality of life since birth. To this days, there are many adults living a horrible life never to be able to speak, see, or disfigured to the point that they will never be married. The list of injustices could go on forever. Anyways, the drama a child must go through to see his love one dying before his very eyes is way more than the stress one go through losing his motorcycle.

Comparing finding a bike as to curing someone's illness, the former definitely can't be called a miracle. In fact, it has the opposite effect. Telling nonbelievers that the believers would attribute anything good to god.

BTW, even as we talk, my opinion of you still hold. You are a very smart and talented man. ;)
 

Offline Sionyn

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Re: remember math yeah, it was just a theory right ?.......
« Reply #174 on: July 05, 2011, 04:23:34 pm »
the problem is classical arabic, no one can really understand it
eecs guy
 


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