EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
General => General Technical Chat => Topic started by: Foxuseagle on January 13, 2020, 10:06:13 am
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My husband and I were looking for affordable old cottages in Toronto. One which has an old vibe to it. We finally stumbled upon an old house in the countryside. The house is built around 1965 but is in good condition though we would have to spend an amount on the renovation. But the best part is that even considering the re-work, the house needs, it is quite affordable. The only worries we have is about the wiring of the place. We thought of LINK REMOVED rewiring the house along with the renovation. What do you guys think? We've heard that there are an increased fire risk and special care that is needed while working with it, and also insurance is higher for it. How hard would it be to replace the wiring with copper?
Let us know your thoughts on this!
Thanks!
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How hard it is to replace the wiring is a physical matter. How accessible is everything? Was the existing wire entirely retrofit into the house? How much restoration work are you willing to do and what surfaces are involved? (You can patch plaster and drywall; you can't [as easily] patch wood.)
For my money and family, I'm 100% OK with aluminum wire in service entrance wiring and feeders to subpanels. I'm reluctantly accepting of aluminum to feed large fixed 240VAC loads (like an oven), though I would choose to replace with copper during any work that disturbed the area or if it was run in conduit.
I'm also somewhat suspicious that this post is made for the purpose of link spamming, though if it is, it's on the fairly well-done side of things...
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So, one question. That little link you snuck in there, it smells a little like link spam especially seeing as this is your first post.
Am I correct in my assumption?
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So, one question. That little link you snuck in there, it smells a little like link spam especially seeing as this is your first post.
Am I correct in my assumption?
Probably. Apart from everything you mentioned, an "affordable" "cottage" that's located "in Toronto" is a major credibility blow right there. There's no cottages in Toronto and there's no affordable housing of any kind in Toronto, cottage or not.
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To combat the link spamming, or on the 0.01% chance that this was a legitimate inquiry, here are three OTHER providers of that service in the greater Toronto area.
I'm sure they'd be happy to answer your questions and might appreciate the link juice. :-DD
http://www.powerelectrical.ca/aluminum-wiring-repair-replacement/ (http://www.powerelectrical.ca/aluminum-wiring-repair-replacement/)
https://www.hmanelectric.ca/pages/services/electrical-aluminium-wiring-rewiring-toronto-gta (https://www.hmanelectric.ca/pages/services/electrical-aluminium-wiring-rewiring-toronto-gta)
https://www.hi-liteelectricinc.ca/services/aluminum-wiring/ (https://www.hi-liteelectricinc.ca/services/aluminum-wiring/)
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Hang on, don't the Canadians spell it aluminum?
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Large gauge aluminum into lugs is normal and safe (panel and sub panel feeds as mentioned above) And can be safe in the oven example above if the breaker lug and outlet lug are Al rated.
Aluminum running in lighting/outlet circuits where there are multiple small junctions is the firehazard deathtrap everyone is familiar with. IMO It has no business in a house anymore. If a run can't be replaced, the only proper fix is crimping copper pigtails on with a hydraulic cold-weld crimp system. The gel-filled terminal blocks work but depend on correct torquing, and the purple gel filled wirenuts aren't a permanent fix regardless of what manufacturers claim.
Personally I'd be in the "rip it out and redo" camp.
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While there are real risks involved in aluminum distribution wiring, I wouldn't quite put it in the death trap category. As with any risk there are ways it can be mitigated. The previous poster is comfortable with crimped on pigtails. Others might be comfortable with Al rated devices at all connections. This isn't a case of right or wrong, just different levels of accepted risk. Neither approach has zero risk.
You might even consider another risk mitigation path, one which has fringe benefits. Purchase a good infrared camera system and use it to monitor your cottage for hot spots which would presage the fire everyone worries about. Such a camera could easily cost far less than the rewiring bill, and if you checked at regular intervals would reduce your risk. And as a side benefit you would have a thermal camera which would be fun and possibly could be a source of income.
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The issue of aluminum wire is heavily treated in the American National Electrical Code.
At this point, I think the recommended remediation practices have been well vetted. Pigtails or different hardware.
Except for wall switches and outlets, everything I've touched in the last few years is marked Al/Cu and can be used with either.
The sole issue with aluminum is the mechanical connections.
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If I were replacing wiring anyway I would replace it with copper. Otherwise I would check for any rework and correct that which was done improperly. Aluminum wiring is fine, in larger sizes it's still often used today. The problems occur when people use hardware intended for copper wire, or splice it to copper wire with ordinary wire nuts. You MUST use aluminum compatible splices, otherwise it works fine.
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I would lean towards a rewire at best (But I'm an electrician so I need my wiring to be 'just-so'), or at very least checking that all the switches, outlets and fittings are rated for use with aluminium.
If the aluminium wiring is terminated properly, rated for use, and in serviceable condition, the actual cabling is probably fine to keep using seeing as it has lasted this long anyway. The main failure points will be at the ends of the cable. Normal wear and tear, and if someone has installed equipment that isn't rated for aluminium.