Request for knowledge - Troubles at home

[lxmute]

Hello EEVblogers,

I'm some Briton of Bretagne, my post will be quite long, facing a very problematic problem in my house, I'll try to be talkative as much as enlightening the problem. It started in July 2018. I stand still strong and face the Nightmare. What is it about ?  It started on the Bastille day, 6 o'clock in the morning, everyone's asleep in France by that hour, that day in France, except my f* frog neighbor.

I think it's an electrical problem, leakage currents maybe, I'm really not sure since it's not my job and I'm not an expert. I tried to request my electricity's distributor for help. In vain. I never experienced such troubles before that 2018 year. Have lived in different countries, different cities, never had trouble before that date. Today I can be quiet, no worries elsewhere, but not anymore at home. It's why I request help today.

The neighbor is a backer, consuming about 3.000€ of electricity bill per month. (thank you Postman for confusing my Pobox and his). This backer has one 3phase + 1phase of my shared 3phase cable (where I have 2 lines). As I'll say later he recently added a second 3phase cable, so he got in total 2x3phase cable + One single phase cable.

First time it started like on/off and stops like on/off and restarts again by pseudo-period since.
I have gone through a lot of white nights since 2018 and I'm going totally exhausted this spring.

I gave interest to Water distribution at first, thinking it was impossible to be Electrical. But the more I looked on it and searched, the more I was going dead end, seeing some aspect looking like an electrical problem. I finally ended to gave interest at EMI and Dirty Electricity documents. I gather every potential topics, and read about. I face like 16 symptoms of what a person affected by Dirty Electricity is said to experience by physicians.
by instance experiencing 12 of 14 troubles listed there: https://youtu.be/AwuCXbrUZyQ?t=520
plus sometimes tachycardie and magnetophosphenes. The most annoying problem being unable to sleep, sometimes up to 5 days in a row. You become very Angry.

Having crawled the healthcare system in France, they all stated I'm perfectly fine. A professor of Nantes University Hospital categorized me as "Electrosensible". Everyone is in a sense IMHO, exposed to certains steps of Electricity. We got some build and shapes differences.

I've made scientific studies, mathematics, physics, mechanics and engineering, then computer science. I would like to get further and bust the problem. I'm not necessary super skilled, since I focused on Computer programming for 20 years. I try my best to step back into hobby electronics for a few years.

This is the frame.


So I started by taking away the possibility it comes from my own system. All shut done, the problems continues.
As the feeling was like a constant vibration, I started some experiences with Android tablets accelerometers and dedicated Apps => Mercalli's scale, plotting some noise. As it was giving results, but I was unable to log it, and since it's unfonctionnal on a Sensor+Proble basis I needed to find or build a system. (Having a job, being exhausted by lack of sleep, it took a bit of time to build a good solution.)

Looking for sensor, I selected the MEAS Nanosense 100, good velocity and very sensible.

It is quite simple, consisting of a Piezo-Electric sensor connected to some Arduino nano. Monitoring pins, the sensor sends its data to the Arduino, which throws it to some rPI clone. Some daemon listens and EPOCH+nanoseconds tags the figures collected each 10ms into some 15min files. Those files are thrown to a central server, I collect all datas into some Influx database, and monitor with Grafana.

Here is some examples of what I plot:
- https://imgur.com/a/8mS3Gbb   
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I've cabled my whole house, 2 levels + a basement a 10x20m garden to run ethernet cables everywhere.
I monitor: back Garden, Basement in 2 spots, Ground level, Deskroom, Sleeping Room, Frontroom, Computer room.

I've put that into my back garden. It's a quiet place, but as I feel the hassel in my whole property, it records movements.

I also added some barometric sensor, temperature sensor, humidity sensor outside to check it has nothing in common with the waves I monitor.

I also added RaspberryShake and RaspberryBoom to my sensors. Which points nothing particular about infrasounds and seismic movements.

I also added 2 pairs of RLC filters on the front of my 2 incoming power lines, Neutral & Phase being filtered each.

Then I added some microphones, recording my sleeping room all days long, a really impacted area of the house, close to the neighbor, and extract spectral traces out of records. I monitor the complete signal, and also extract a "zoom" on 20Hz-300Hz scale. Sometimes I have weird blocks of continuous signal, often on 50Hz harmonics, and 25Hz. "half 50Hz harmonic", can it be ?
https://imgur.com/a/2vWCaHW

Wanting to be able to totally shutdown the power lines for some times and being able to continue to monitor with my piezo-electric sensors, I also acquired 2 PDU, with Voltage & Frequency probe on them, able to feed on each power line my servers, switchs, and particulary the POE switches that feed all the ZeroPi gathering the piezo-electric sensors.
I see in the end constant and daily falls in the power given by the power company, on one line compared to the second one. But this happen during days, and the trouble is more important at night.. starting often just after midnight, and going quite regulary up to 3 or 4 days. You can't sleep in those case. Only parad I found is with a hammoc.
I think that my sensor being behind a 5V DC POE feeder, being a PSU, behind some RLC Filter, my measures are mostly clean, not affected by noise. I maybe wrong ? Tell me please.

Piezo-E sensors are sensible either to seismic factor, either to electrical noise, both. (I've seen on Piezotronics catalog their high quality models comes with filters to avoid Electrical noise below 3db. But I haven't those filters on mine.).
So I monitor potentially movement and electricy IMHO. Am I wrong? but since I placed most of my sensors in very quiet areas of my house concerning movements, I'm mostly monitoring electrical phenomenons. Am I right?

Sensor can be very sensitive. By instance if I enter my warehouse, the sensor located 12m away marks a spike, but spikes are really ponctual, and you can out them easily from the whole 10ms forest of measures. (can be a way to bust bed intruders and send 911 alert email..)

Recently that d**** f***** neighbor added a new 3phase cable to feed his bulding, and I felt like things going harder.. but it's just feeling. I want TRACES and datas.

So I acquired a Scope. and some multimeters to experience further. I was happy to later discover it was certified as beeing a some great entry level scope by Mr. Dave Jones himself  ..

With a multimeter, plugged to Ground on one probe, plugged to a copper rod on the other probe, sticked to V AC, handling the rod, I'm able to go up to 12V readings on multimeter.

So I plugged that same rod to the scope, and receive a complete 50Hz drawing. About 2V of height measured.
I then plugged a second probe behind a laboratory Power Supply, throwing out AC as well and receiving a 2nd sinus wave. not in phase together.
I have the relative chance of owning 2 independant power lines in my building. They come from the same 3-Phase cable coming from outside. 1 cable for each account. (The 3rd line of this cable runs to the neigbhORING Backer.)
Connecting a second Laboratory Power Supply to my second line, and a third probe to it, I end up having 2 phases of the 3-phase.
The third monitored probe, the copper rod, being not in Phase with each of my 2 lines.

I feel that CopperRodSineWave looks like having something near of looking like the 3rd phase, but in negative response. I would like to be reviewed on that point, if it's of any interest of just crap I'm doing.
https://imgur.com/a/EHZ6jxw

I would like to request and ideas about what to do to spot a potential leakage current, the potential idea that it comes from the neighbor, with the fact it's impossible for me to talk with him. His wife HATES ME far enough to feel happy of my prejudice. The kind of witch you'll never want as a neighbor.

To be sure, I also added a lot of gum carpet below a lot of electrical equipments in my house. I spent more bucks on changing computer fans for some low noise Noctua, changed PSU..
Oh yes, I also bought some HF reader, to garante I'm not affected by the high frequency cellphones waves & so on.. Nothing's bad at all on that point.


I'm fluent with Unix systems, C, PERL, C#, got some advanced level in Electricy Housing, Cable Monkeys stuff. I also studied enough on Laws of Electrocinetic, Electrostatic, Electromagnetism, Thermodynamics, Optics. I'm open minded, but totally lost at the moment finding not a single guy in my Area able to be Pro enough to come and point what is wrong. Plus, public services don't give a fuck.

Should I go also for some expensive Gauss Meter ? fine grain Monitoring being the goal, and Justice for All.

I'm open for any tips and tricks to bust the cause of the problem. Any technical help, advice would be much appreciated.

thanks for reading that tl;dr.
Best regards,

Alex

[xrunner]

Didn't we get one of these sorts of "cases" just recently?

[MK14]

I'm fluent with Unix systems, C, PERL, C#

I've left, the parts of your opening post, that make, at least some sense.  Except that I can't really see what that (programming languages), has got to do with the rest of the post.

Where is the bit, that gives a quick and easy summary of what the problem(s) or issues are, that you are trying to solve ?

[IanB]

I read your whole long post, but nowhere have you actually said what your problem is?

From what I can deduce, it seems to be some kind of health and wellbeing problem? You cannot sleep or relax? Something keeping you awake at night, but you don't know what?

It would help enormously if you could actually say what ails you in your post. Identifying a problem is the first step to solving it.

To be honest, what we can learn from your description is that you are somehow really bothered by your neighbor, and this is stressing you out, and the stress is affecting your health.

I don't quite see how there can be a technical answer to this. In fact, all your efforts to try to measure "something" is probably feeding into your stress levels and making things worse. Stress and worry definitely cause sleepless nights.

Can you get a friend or relative to come and stay with you and see if they feel anything, or have trouble sleeping? That would give you some idea of whether there is really something in the environment or not. It might give you some reassurance.

[SiliconWizard]

Yeah. Not sure I got what it's all about either.

The only thing I saw is that the OP has made some measurements of acceleration and has noticed patterns. If their neighbour is using some kind of "industrial" equipment, I wouldn't be utterly surprised if that could generate vibrations that could be sensed, and maybe even subtly felt by humans, in a nearby house. And possibly that could prevent some sensitive people from sleeping.

I'm not sure why the OP seems to be focusing on "electrical perturbations" (EM?), while they have measured vibrations that could very well be the source of their problem.

In any case, if that's due to some new equipment the neighbour bought, and they are running a business (as I got?), unless the effect of this equipment was *very* noticeable (and not "subtle"), such as deep vibrations, noise > what's legally acceptable, whatever, I'm sorry to say that the OP probably has zero chance of doing anything about it except move out. The neighbour isn't going to stop using their equipment, which would harm their business, or buy something else, which would possibly cost a lot, or maybe modify the installation so that vibrations are limited, which would also cost money.

So anyway, not quite sure what the OP really is on about, but if anything and from the little I got, I think they should possibly focus on this vibration thing rather than EMI, which has never really proven to have a sizeable effect on health or sleep unless it was so intense that you'd get other issues quickly. Just a thought.

[sleemanj]

TLDR whole thing.

Probably like a water bore pump or something.

[lxmute]

Except that I can't really see what that (programming languages), has got to do with the rest of the post.

Sorry it wasn't explicit to say so. It was a way to say I'm not worried about gathering, transforming and representing datas.

I read your whole long post, but nowhere have you actually said what your problem is?

The main problem ends up being the privation of sleep on an enormous amount of nights, for 4 years. that's why I'm requesting tips. The other disturbances are somehow minor compared to this one.
I'm healthy and calm by the way, practicing Shotokan.

My goal is to be able to categorize the exact trouble. So either Vibro-acoustic, either Electrical leaks.
How could I monitor precisely 24/7 static electricity on a precise location ?

[ebastler]

You have not really described the housing arrangements. Are we talking about semi-detached houses here, with you and the baker (?) living wall-to-wall? Or are these separate, detached houses -- if so, how far apart?

Is your neighbour operating a commercial bakery right in his home? If so, when does he start operations in the (early) morning? He won't let those ovens and dough-kneading machines run unattended overnight, I trust.

Can you sleep well until he fires up the ovens? Have you tried going to bed early and rising when he does? It might not be your preferred lifestyle, but compared to the efforts and unhappiness you have been going through already, it would be an easy way out. Worth trying, I think -- if only for a few weeks, to see whether there really is a causal relationship between your sleeping problems and the neighbor's operation.

[IanB]

Ah, a baker? I hadn't quite figured out what backer meant.

It follows, since bakeries work overnight to make bread by morning. So it could be noise disturbance that is the trouble.

[Gyro]

... or the smell of freshly baked bread. It would certainly wake me up!

[MK14]

Didn't we get one of these sorts of "cases" just recently?

I'm just trying to think of all the ways, it would be useful, for someone to repeatedly make accounts, just to question this kind of problem.

What about a book author, researching into various technical reasons, that could disrupt peoples sleeping pattern?

There does seem to be a theme, where they strongly dislike the neighbor.

I wonder what is really going on?

Question for the OP?
(I know someone already asked), but how come you are living in a (what we call in the UK), business unit.  I.e. Some kind of somewhat large, business building (rather small factory, for 1 to 40 workers, depending on size and stuff), rather than a normal home?

Also, if you live in some kind of business unit.  You kind of have to accept.  That there can be various 'business' related activities, late at night.  Such as security watches, deliveries, and sometimes, noisy machinery in operation.

My understanding is sleep pattern disturbances.  Is a somewhat common medical ailment, that people can suffer from.  Which can have absolutely NOTHING to do with your neighbor.  Unless the medical condition, is some types of mental illness, which makes the ill person, believe that stuff is going on, which is NOT really happening, they just believe that it is.  E.g. Paranoid Schizophrenia.

https://www.sleephealthfoundation.org.au/schizophrenia-and-sleep.html

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4855992/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614792/

Schizophrenia is a major psychiatric disorder that has a massive, long-lasting negative impact on the patients as well as society. While positive symptoms (i.e., delusions and hallucinations), negative symptoms (i.e., anhedonia, social withdrawal), and cognitive impairments are traditionally considered the most prominent features of this disorder, the role of sleep and sleep disturbances has gained increasing prominence in clinical practice. Indeed, the vast majority of patients with schizophrenia report sleep abnormalities, which tend to precede illness onset and can predict an acute exacerbation of psychotic symptoms. Furthermore, schizophrenia patients often have a comorbid sleep disorder, including insomnia, obstructive sleep apnea, restless leg syndrome, or periodic limb movement disorder. Despite accumulating data, the links between sleep disorders and schizophrenia have not been thoroughly examined, in part because they are difficult to disentangle, as numerous factors contribute to their comorbidity, including medication status. Additionally, sleep disorders are often not the primary focus of clinicians treating this population, despite studies suggesting that comorbid sleep disorders carry their own unique risks, including worsening of psychotic symptoms and poorer quality of life. There is also limited information about effective management strategies for schizophrenia patients affected by significant sleep disturbances and/or sleep disorders. To begin addressing these issues, the present review will systematically examine the literature on sleep disorders and schizophrenia, focusing on studies related to 1) links between distinct sleep disorders and schizophrenia; 2) risks unique to patients with a comorbid sleep disorder; and 3) and management challenges and strategies.

[jonpaul]

bonjour à tous

Some of the OP long note may have miscommunication as it seems like he is French and not a native English speaker.

The overall setup needs diagrams, maps and photos to understand the situation.

We have seen cases like this in the USA, and they have never been resolved.  Seems like a problem in medical or psychological rather than in electronic or electric area.

If the OP experienced same symptoms when far from his property we could have a clew.

When I was a power engineer I never noticed  symptoms,  working with 55 kV, 12 KW, and medical lasers.

bon courage et bon santé à le OP !

Just the ramblings of an old retired EE

Jon

[lxmute]

You have not really described the housing arrangements. Are we talking about semi-detached houses here, with you and the baker (?) living wall-to-wall? Or are these separate, detached houses -- if so, how far apart?

wall-to-wall, yes. 2x Century-old houses. 2 different electricians have checked everything concerning my installation. Earth & equipotentiality have been tested.

Seems like a problem in medical or psychological rather than in electronic or electric area.

In my current problem, as I expect this from any future lawyer in Courthouse, I've done all medical and psychological circuit, Virology, Neurology, Psychology and I've been stated as perfectly healthy and in plain possession of my mind. Furthermore, I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs. I run a business for many years with good success.

an old retired EE

ok boomer.
I had not the faintest interest in my neighbor before troubles started to happen. It's the 7th baker I have there as a neighbor and never had to complain of any of them. Even that one, worked 10 years there before those troubles started to occur in July 2018. I have talked to him twice about this trouble, and he denied. So I try to record facts of what is coming from the "outside" in my house, and body. Shutting down the power line doesn't change anything. Cutting water, heater doesn't change anything.
When there is no trouble at all, it's periodical, everything's back to normal. If I go streets away, everything's back to normal. If I sleep at a friend's house, everything's back to normal.
Try to rest on a conductive plate powered with 12V AC/10mA for 30 hours and you'll maybe get the feeling.
Nevermind, and eat the pension for which I pay taxes.


and to end up all those stupid rants concerning Weltschmertz and psychology, as requested before,

I read your whole long post, but nowhere have you actually said what your problem is?

I'd just like a module or sensor ref. able to monitor the seeping voltage, that difference of potential at a T time, that invades a room. I'll plug it into a microcontroler.

[IanB]

Is it a bakery next to you, as we are supposing? Baking bread?

If so, there there is not much to it. There are big machines that mix the dough, which will have motors making a rumbling noise perhaps. And there are ovens to bake the bread, which will be pretty silent and have no moving parts except maybe some fans.

Could it be you are being disturbed by the sound and activity of people working and operating machines in the early hours of the morning?

[abquke]

From the engineering side: If you look for interference, you'll find it.

From the human side: please consider the possibility that you're hearing things that others can't. I've had someone I care about a great deal go through it and it's something that shouldn't be stigmatized and can be treated.

[nctnico]

Could it be you are being disturbed by the sound and activity of people working and operating machines in the early hours of the morning?

I'd think in that direction as well. Maybe low frequency noise issues. Random google find: https://www.merford.com/en/news/a-guide-to-low-frequency-noise

[themadhippy]

And there are ovens to bake the bread, which will be pretty silent and have no moving parts except maybe some fans

If its a commercial bakery the ovens may have a conveyor running through it.There surprisingly noisy places,spent several weeks in one a year or so back,hearing protection was mandatory everywhere within production and dispatch.

[IanB]

If its a commercial bakery the ovens may have a conveyor running through it.There surprisingly noisy places,spent several weeks in one a year or so back,hearing protection was mandatory everywhere within production and dispatch.

It's a possibility. Though I'm thinking this is more of a "high street" type bakery, than a "factory" type bakery.

[CatalinaWOW]

I could not read any scales on the accelerometers, but clearly there is some vibration being transmitted to your house.  The change could have resulted from a new installation at your bakers, a repair on existing machinery, or possibly due to a structural failure in one of your buildings that changes the transmission from his place to yours.

I don't know if your jurisdiction has formal limits for noise and vibration, but if you can provide evidence that he is exceeding established limits you can force him to correct the situation. 

It is not unlikely that the "problem" be it mechanical, electrical, acoustic or whatever is below most peoples sensing threshold, but unfortunately not below yours.  If this seems like a real possibility in your situation you might look into adding noise(nice white noise) which can be less objectionable than the original noise and will mask the problem.  A variant on this theme is to keep a radio or stereo turned on fairly high.

[Bud]

Didn't we get one of these sorts of "cases" just recently?

Oh no, not another "What are they using on me" thread  !

[jonpaul]

Bakeries run 7 days a week and start the ovens and process very early moring.

By mid moring, most have finished the days bread production.

If you can get the timing documented, you may have a clew.

Amicalment

Jon

PS: Retired but still work for a French Non-Profit.

I have no pension, nor anything paid by your French  taxes.

[ebastler]

an old retired EE

ok boomer.

I am not a native English speaker myself, but I am pretty sure that this phrase is used in a dismissive way. If that was your intent -- dismissing someone who is trying to help, and implying that he is narrow-minded, out of touch etc. -- then I don't know why we should bother with further replies. 

Edit: Typo fixed.

[macaba]

lxmute - you are probably aware of how strange this sounds. You have mentioned checking all the usual things with a doctor, so I can only suggest a few unusual things as to eliminate them:

- Get a carbon monoxide alarm and keep it with you in the house to see if there is any CO gas (causes poor health and delusions).
- Check if neighbour (or you) has installed ultrasonic cat/bat repellent (you might be able to hear it, causing poor sleep).
- Have a sleep study done at a hospital for sleep apnea (causes poor health and poor sleep).

[jonpaul]

Rebonjour

indeed I mentioned that I am an "old retired EE" only to show my experience  in design and consulting..... interference, power electronics and power quality.

Are the bakery ovens electric or gas?

Electric ovens  may have phase control,  but other types of control can cause  flicker  on mains, as heater load is modulated on/ off.

Gas ovens emit CO and CO2 in the oven exhaust
Finally all baking creates certain by-product vapors and gases...( alchols?)

bon courage

Jon

[Fraser]

Sounds like a very low frequency noise problem.

https://www.noiseandhealth.org/article.asp?issn=1463-1741;year=2004;volume=6;issue=23;spage=87;epage=91;aulast=waye

Fraser