Author Topic: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home  (Read 9320 times)

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Offline lxmuteTopic starter

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2022, 12:12:52 pm »
It's a possibility. Though I'm thinking this is more of a "high street" type bakery, than a "factory" type bakery.

It is indeed a high street bakery, with they whole production and storage within.

As all of you seems to mostly insist on a Vibro-Acoustic troubles:

Earlier in my life, I've worked for one year as a cook in a crowded restaurant. Levels of noise were high, the job was tiring, from 11AM to 2AM, but I never experienced the extreme sensations I experience nowadays.

There was a particular event in September 2020. Contractors came at this bakery to dismantle the old Frost chamber and replace it with a new one. It took them 2 days of work. The first day they removed it. The evening I had a feeling of emptiness and silence in my kitchen as I was preparing food. I then slept like a bear at Winter.
The next morning the contractors came back to assemble the new frost chamber, and finally plug the new pump. Stress came back.
Here is the piezoE record of that period in the basement:



So I'll have to dig into that direction?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610706000927

I then wonder why I read voltages on multimeters and scope.

I'm gonna experiment, directing a turbine and changing speeds in front of one of those piezo-electric sensors I use.


As some dork pointed brain trauma, here comes the "Schizo-Columbo" part.

As I said I talked to that neighbor twice, the 1st time it was after the first problems in July 2018. The 2nd time, it was after COVID lockdowns, in May 2020. Why so long? I used of patience in between and started to find countermeasure, built a monitoring solution. Did a whole Health check.

- The dude denied any possibility the disturbance came from his side, pointing during the speak responsability of local Sewages company, pointing the responsability of "Linky" Smart grid system, saying he talked to an architect that answered him it could be coming from 500 meters away. I had nothing more to say that it was weirdy and I will check those possibilities.
- but for sewage & smartgrid possibilities, I wouldn't be alone in the city to experience such problems. It should be reasonably widely spread around a panel of other people.

- I then objected him that I waited one year before coming, sure it wasn't coming from MY side, taking care I was isolated to experience the hassle before coming back.

- Adding I wasn't experiencing the trouble each Tuesday's nights, the day when he is closed. Which was true until that day.
- Adding he was the single guy in the whole street to work during Covid's Lockdown.
- Adding he surprisingly made a try to work one tuesday's night in March 2020 and it ruined my -by that time- single night of rest.

Going forward in the conversation, he came to tell me he was shutting down all systems at "week end" (his Tuesday), and on holidays (like 4 or 5 times a year).

- After that meeting, thing changed, what was straight regular became pseudo-periodical, I could interpret as 'cover the tracks' if one hypothesis could be confirmed. (The dude is known to other neighbors for being sneaky, threatened another neighbor, a grocery store tenant, with a 30cm knife, and threw a can of frozen coke at his wife's head.)

- Going around in the neighborhood at night with Spectroid & DBMeter in hand, I noticed he let everything powered ON, even lights, on his week-ends , on his holidays.

- I finally noticed that deliveries also began to take place on Tuesday nights, which had never happened before.
I monitored a bit the noise in his front door at night, going up to 60dB on some android App. I recorded on camera.

As the trouble was really hard at 9 PM last night, I went to my back garden to experience if it was noticeable there. I climbed in a tree and rested there for about 10min, same feeling.
If I rest in my hammoc, doing an oscillation, having referential of movement, mostly annihilates the stress.
I was up till 5 AM, unable to sleep.

Concerning the garden, I have a property wall which, for some strange reason, has a zinc cover.

Dunno why but I yesterday's evening, went curious to climb the ladder you see on the picture and put my ear on the zinc. Doing so I clearly listen to some electrical noise. It was very buzzing last night. And renewing it this noun, it seems less noisy (not sure since the city is less quiet at this moment). But listening, it's clearly pulsating in perfect rythm.
-> I'm going to buy some guitar's pad microphone and monitor this.
-> have to Pull a cable to monitor the curve that the buzz of this roof can have on the oscilloscope.

Fadding away from Vibro-Acoustic, my remaining question is why I still record AC Voltage on 3 different multimeters and scope when I renew the copper's rod experiment. And I feel necessary to also record & monitor that point on 24/7 basis, aided by some sensor.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 01:07:18 pm by lxmute »
 

Offline lxmuteTopic starter

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2022, 12:43:11 pm »
- Get a carbon monoxide alarm and keep it with you in the house to see if there is any CO gas (causes poor health and delusions).
I have and it's okay on that point. My building boiler is well maintained by a renouned company. Interesting question still.

- Check if neighbour (or you) has installed ultrasonic cat/bat repellent (you might be able to hear it, causing poor sleep).
I understand. I have 2 cats wich sometimes go on the rooftop you saw on the earlier picture.
Speaking of animals, I also have 2 Syrian turtles in the garden. They are older than me, I grew up seeing them. I noticed in the worst periods of stress, unusual ways in their way of being, leaving the paws hanging out of the shell to sleep. And, it will seem strange, but when you know an animal you understand, having a look and a different face, like very tired too. It seems to me that turtles are described by naturalists as animals with no hearing, but with sensory capacities that are hypersensitive to movement.
At these times I experienced very severe neck pain. Using a hammock for my nights freed me from that.


- Have a sleep study done at a hospital for sleep apnea (causes poor health and poor sleep).
I'm in waiting list for that, Healthcare has gone crazy those years in France, in terms of delay.
For a few months, I  monitor my sleep with DREEM helmet, and a Xiaomi band 6. I also made tests sleeping on a boat's friend, it's amazingly healing.


Are the bakery ovens electric or gas?

It's all Electric yes. He got 81kVA of power's contract. To compare, I asked to my ancient restaurant's boss, who replied me he had 45kVA of power.
from what I understood what consumes in a bakery is the ovens, the cold chambers, the proofing room.
Cold chambers consume more when at outside temp, to go to their working temperature, then regulated by the system when needed.
Proofing room consumes depending on stocks of prepared stuff for the ovens.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 01:03:28 pm by lxmute »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2022, 01:47:46 pm »
Concerning the garden, I have a property wall which, for some strange reason, has a zinc cover.
That zinc cover is to keep the wall dry so the inner doesn't get saturated with moisture.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline SL4P

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2022, 05:32:35 pm »
It sounds to me like one of you is resident in the wrong zoning area.
The neighbour is running heavy commercial equipment in a residentially zoned area, or you’re  trying to maintain a residence in a primarily commercial area…

Maybe one of you should be talking to the local froggy municipal zoning authorities.
Don't ask a question if you aren't willing to listen to the answer.
 

Offline jonpaul

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2022, 06:26:49 am »
Rebonjour...

to SL4P: Zoning  enforcement depends on honest and uncorrupted  politicians (:-:)

In France, and Switzerland, outside of large cities, mixed zoning is common.

20 km from Paris are huge apartment developments constructed adjacent to small residential homes and and in open space areas.

Similar in Switzerland near Fribourg.


Jon
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Offline lxmuteTopic starter

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2022, 08:42:18 am »
Maybe one of you should be talking to the local froggy municipal zoning authorities.

This is were another nightmare starts. If you saw that cartoon: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072901/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
I've requested authorities, quite in vain. The different contacted services requesting you to contact another service, which leads you to a third one, which then tells you they are not qualified for it, an so on. Mayor, Senator, Deputy, Prefet doesn't give a F***. Grid distributor answers he is "not qualified" for measures.... The frequency agency sends you a contractor for High Frequency records when you expressly stated about low frequencies in your demand.

I can't even handle the idea to sell or find a renter for my building, because it's not healthy ATM, and moral to sell such a place with some hidden problem.
All those reasons makes I try to dig and study on my own, and end up requesting for help on a technical forum related to the Fairy Electricity.
I hold the bar  :-BROKE

btw I had last night weird patterns on the 20Hz-300Hz spectrum on the microphone:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 08:45:50 am by lxmute »
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2022, 08:45:01 am »
Rebonjour...

to SL4P: Zoning  enforcement depends on honest and uncorrupted  politicians (:-:)

In France, and Switzerland, outside of large cities, mixed zoning is common.

20 km from Paris are huge apartment developments constructed adjacent to small residential homes and and in open space areas.

Similar in Switzerland near Fribourg.


Jon

So now you have made all of your investigations pointless.  Even if you find something you believe that the politicians will let it continue.

You need to move, wear earplugs, wrap your house in tin foil or take some other defensive measure.  Trying the things you are willing to implement will be faster than the investigation.
 

Offline lxmuteTopic starter

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2022, 09:00:36 am »
wear earplugs,
done, I wear some Shure earplugs, listening to some conferences or "NRG8" musics collected on Youtube.

wrap your house in tin foil
Sure that some Farraday's cage (you still need the good frequency to select the correct mesh layout -> you need to monitor the correct patterns -> you need the good tool) + plates of cork between walls and the finishing touches would be good. But, the dude responsible for "the cause of the problem" has to pay for it.

As soon as I put a clear responsibility, it will end up at Courthouse, Sacrebleu! And there, oddly, there are dozens of lawyers ready to respond to the request.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 09:02:40 am by lxmute »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2022, 10:55:52 am »
The main problem ends up being the privation of sleep on an enormous amount of nights, for 4 years. that's why I'm requesting tips. The other disturbances are somehow minor compared to this one.
I'm healthy and calm by the way, practicing Shotokan.

My goal is to be able to categorize the exact trouble. So either Vibro-acoustic, either Electrical leaks.
How could I monitor precisely 24/7 static electricity on a precise location ?

There is near zero chance that any electrical or "vibro-acoustic" problems are actually causing your sleep issues.

Start with getting a better pillow. Seriously. Then see a sleep specialist after talking with your doctor first.
Odds are there is an easy solution to your problem. A whole host of things can cause sleep issues, and the technical things you are looking into are practically last on the list.
But I'm afraid that you are now in a mindset where you have convinced yourself the problem is vibration/electrical related.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 11:03:25 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline Fraser

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2022, 10:59:12 am »
Likely of no help to the OP but two stories of noise nuisances that baffled residents of areas effected.

In Bristol, UK, there was a mysterious ‘hum’ that could be heard in the quiet hours that disturbed many peoples sleep. After much investigation it was discovered that the noise was coming from an aero engine manufacturers engine test bed. The test bed was bolted firmly to bedrock for stability and engine vibrations were transmitted into the bedrock, travelled many miles and re-emerged in an area of Bristol far away from the source. The vibrations came up from the bedrock under the houses. People were thinking the source was local to them, when in fact it was many miles away.

Another mystery noise that afflicted US residents was a loud humming noise that seemed to only occur at certain times and no local cause could be easily identified. After an investigation it was discovered that the noise was being created by fish in a harbour some distance away. The fish were using the hulls of boats to amplify their ‘calls’ buy pressing their bodies against the hulls. Weird but true.

Low frequency noise pollution can be very disturbing to anyone suffering from such. It can become a form of low level torture use as a dripping tap might if you can hear it, but cannot stop the noise being made. The brain can start to focus on the irritating stimulus to the point that sleep is affected and the noise becomes a serious problem to the person ‘hearing’ it. Note that noise does not have to be in the normal hearing range of a human to be detected by the body. This is especially true of low frequency noise where transmitted vibrations may be involved.

Regarding the machinery use in the bakery…. What could be the sources of low frequency noise ?

1. Any motor that is not vibration isolated from the buildings structure can transmit low frequency noise into that structure and local structures sharing the same foundations or party walks. The frequency of the vibrations can vary and multiple motors could, in theory, creat interference noise patterns due to differing vibration frequencies. Frequency mixing can cause very strange effects, including a drone and beat noises, just as happens with multi engine aircraft from WWII. Low frequencies can result from the mixing of multiple higher frequency vibrations.

2. Ball race Bearings are used in machinery and these can be a source of noise and vibration. Ball race Bearings can be noisy in operation and when they fail they can be particularly noisy. He noise is usual, in the higher frequency ranges however. Frequency mixing remains a possibility however.

3. Drive shafts turning at high speeds need to be balanced. An imbalance in a drive shaft can cause all manner of issues with vibrations and bearing damage. Not sure a bake6 would use high speed drive shafts though.

4. Compressors are used in cooling systems and these are often a combination of an electric motor and a piston based compressor. The motor is capable of creating noise, as detailed above, and the compressor section is also capable of creating its own spectrum of noise and vibrations. Compressors can be very noisy in industrial settings. There are significant moving parts to create vibration. As previously stated, if the compressor is not vibration isolated from the building structure, it can transmit many vibrational frequencies into surrounding structures that have a common foundation or party wall.


As an example of how small a noise source can be and still become an issue, we have cats and one night I was hearing an annoying hum in our house. I searched the house for the noise source and it was the cats water fountain pump in a down stairs room. My wife had cleaned the tiny induction impeller pump and set the water flow at a different volume. The pump resonated at 50Hz when pumping at that volume. Another noise incident occurred some years ago that could mainly be heard in the quiet hours within our house. After investigation I traced the noise to our Honeywell 2 way central heating motorised valve that is held in the ‘central heating only’ position with a constant ac supply to the motor coil. The motor was humming at 50Hz.

Finally, there was a case of a lady having terrible problems with noise and vibration in her new home. The source was known….it was her washing machine. The problem was that the housing developer had placed the utility room at the centre of the house ground floor and this was where the washing machine was installed. The floor was a modern concrete / polystyrene block hybrid type and due to the floor design, it could act as a resonant diaphragm at low frequencies. The position of the washing machine at the centre of the house caused vibrations that were capable of making items walk off of shelving elsewhere in the house ! The solution was to move the utility room to the edge of the house floor plate but that involved major reworking of the house and the owner was understandably unhappy about this.

Low frequency vibrations are very common in industry and I fear that the OP will not be able to solve this problem easily as such vibrations can be very challenging to cure, even if the owner of the source is open to such measures.

Fraser
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 08:01:04 am by Fraser »
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2022, 11:00:11 am »
I can't even handle the idea to sell or find a renter for my building, because it's not healthy ATM, and moral to sell such a place with some hidden problem.

No one else will have any problems unless there are actual loud noises in the middle of the night. I'm sorry to say, but your problem is almost certainly entirely with you.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2022, 11:06:26 am »
btw I had last night weird patterns on the 20Hz-300Hz spectrum on the microphone:


I bet you'll get all sorts of stuff like that in an apartment building or high rise hotel.
Any bed matress is going to act as a huge attenuator to any building vibration.

Heck, I had a visible vibration in my lab:
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 11:09:09 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline tom66

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2022, 01:12:37 pm »
Reading this reminds me of the character of "Chuck" in Better Call Saul, a TV series.  The character is convinced he is electrosensitive, to the point where he completely withdraws from his career as a partner at a law firm.  However, he is unfortunately deluded.  I will not spoil too much, but it is worth considering that it is psychosomatic.  The brain can play tricks on the most sane individuals.  And, if you have a friend stay over and sleep, and they do not have a problem sleeping, the chances are any future resident will be fine. 

Once you have convinced yourself there is a problem, you will stress yourself out and will not be able to believe that the problem is gone until you take action.  The simplest action may simply be to move and put the neighbour behind you.   If you feel that there is still a concern, you could perhaps get a professional noise survey done for some cost before you sell the apartment? (I am assuming you are not renting, if you are renting, then why worry because this is the landlord's problem.)

Part of me wonders if you feel that you must solve this problem because it is an internal battle, rather than taking the easier option of withdrawing from the problem.   If you do find the cause is something physical, what exactly will you do about it?  No court in the land will uphold something if there is no law against the "noise" the baker is producing, except in very rare circumstances.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 01:14:21 pm by tom66 »
 
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Offline lxmuteTopic starter

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2022, 03:25:10 pm »
Low frequency noise pollution can be very disturbing to anyone suffering from such. It can become a form of low level torture

1. Any motor hat is not vibration isolated from the buildings structure can transmit low frequency noise into that structure and local structures sharing the same foundations or party walks.

2. Ball race Bearings are used in machinery and these can be a source of noise and vibration. Ball race Bearings can be noisy in operation and when they fail they can be particularly noisy. He noise is usual, in the higher frequency ranges however. Frequency mixing remains a possibility however.
A faulty Ball bearing from a semi-industrial fan hung on a supporting beam was part of my hypothesis during first year. (As written below), when the neighbor renewed flats in his building, I wondered how much I heard the drills and bore machines. As I was recording I have particular Spectrum of that period.

Any bed matress is going to act as a huge attenuator to any building vibration.

When the problem started, it was highly noticeable, head on the pillow.

It's hard to notice as it is a very discrete shake. As soon as I sit down on my computer desk, get quiet to code, I feel it under the thighs when sitting. Foot on the ground I notice a feeling of impatience, as with the "ants in the legs". I rest my legs on some leather+foam pouffe to avoid as much as possible that impatience in the feet.
Neurologist stated nothing particular when I visited her. I later made some Xray related to hears and the physician, a long time specialist, stated everything was fine. Good ear boy !
I was particularly feeling well in the waiting room for the Xray chamber, weighted down by this big farraday's cage walls. *moan*

If I lay down on my matress, the side laying connected to the matress is feeling it. And the most annoying the head's side laying on the pillow raises the same feeling. I would say the frequency your box shake on the video could be what I feel. So I tried to change matress. I put silent block under my matress. I put layers of antivibration gummies under those silent blocks. It was lowering a bit the stress. Doubling the pillow wasn't better (I sleep with german pillows, as they are best pillows IMHO, BIG pillows.)
Added to the difficulty to sleep, I was waking up with cervical contractions, feelings of fatigue pain in the vertebral column.. Insane. My eyelids were turning black, with bags under my eyes.

I dunno why but wondered how people are doing in high seismic activities' area, like in Central America or Japan, and remembered a friend told me about his year in Guatemala, and how people of that region put the brat in hammocks to make them sleep.
So I bought a king size hammock. Effect was quite immediate. Where I wasn't able to sleep before like 7 o clock in the morning, totally exhausted from trying to fell asleep, and waking up at 8.30AM for the job.. *cheers*.
I was still feeling some nights of troubles, thinking about it as "higher intensity" of what I get. But at least I was able to get to bed at midnight and do a complete night. What a deep progress. I think it took me like 14 months to regain the lost nights. And at least I can mostly sleep, be productive again.
MrBakerNeighbor started to wipe his whole building floors and build 4 flats to rent in it.
A point to notice was they dug a big hole just after their entry door, which is the closest to my Deskroom and Sleeping room, wall to wall.
Asking a contractor there, he told me they were going to pass all cables there, a fill it with concrete. I was sleeping quite well at that time and feeling less stress. Even if the noise for building flats was high, I was going better.

They stayed like 3 months with this hole in the entry and plywood boards above, making bread and "Le Patisserie" just nearby, without the slightest sanitary measures of insulation. Crazy.
After one year of different daily noises, they finally ended up the construction process and added this winter a second 400A line to his building, to connect new flats. Which, ended for me as feeling higher stress. More hard nights like in the beginning.

As some people pointed a cause effect to possibility: It's not some nocebo effect because I hate this guy and he is a complete stupid asshole. If there wasn't any trouble, I could perfectly live well just ignoring its proximity. As I already told Those troubles started long after he established his business there.

I maybe forgot to mention the FIRST time it started, it was a beautiful and perfect weather outside. Birds were singing, I just woke up from a normal night, perfectly rested. Window was open. It was like 20°C outside. 6'O clock, not the faintest car's noise coming by the window. I had just the time to think about what I was going to experience with an old Amiga I was customizing during my week-end that I heard a loud scraping sound of cast iron, metal against what I interpret as tile or stone.
Then the shit started, very high. I thought it was a refrigerated truck delivering a restaurant down the street. After 10min, I decided to go the street's front window. Nothing, not even a single bird whistling in the street. The "noise" never ended until the next TUESDAY afternoon, 15:40. I did a lot of shit in the week end, tried things to test my own house.

Exhausted by the stress, I also tried in summer 2019 to sleep in like every parts of my house, even in parts of my warehouse of my business and in the attics. Shit was the same. The feeling can dominates all the grounds of my house sometimes.
I never tested the basement to be complete, even if it's some descent concrete wall basement.

I did tries to rent a tiny house in the countryside also. It was fine.

If I go to a friend to sleep, it's just fine. But as we all have our own life, you can't always count of imposing your presence to friends.

As It's a convenient way to travel as well, I'm about to buy a boat and sleep in it when the trouble is too high.

Even hammered, I'm still interested to find the solution.

To get back on Grid Another weird thing in the neighborhood, is that sometimes at night, opening the window, no one in the streets, I can hear sometimes a regular buzzing sound. And in the perpendicular street the same.
If I go to the 2nd street next, nothing.

Concerning my house, it's 12x8m 2 higher floors and a business on ground floor. Sometimes I feel the stress while working at the ground floor, but less frequently.
On 1st floor I can feel the stress at table in the kitchen, but less frequently the same.
I can feel a rythmed noise in the living room often at 19:00-20:00 in the evening. I have 4 windows there under the distribution cable that runs the length of my cornice.
And nerdy, I'm mostly living on second floor. 1m50 from my office seat, there is this power distribution cable that runs all along the street.
Concerning the garden, in the back of the house, separated from the street by the house. I can also feel the shit. There is a boiler at the bottom of the property, which belongs to the town hall, and is also supplied with electricity.
 
This is why that small experiment with Copper rod and Multimeter reading Voltage on AC values remains still a point I'd like to perfectly understand.

Last but not least, I've read our Grid distributor is removing RLC filters from their 20kV transformers because of SmardGrid communication. *I strongly need a bunk/debunk on that claim*. Could it be possible that strong interferences arise from that ?
And that article raised my interest:
https://www-bulletin-ch.translate.goog/fr/news-detail/generateurs-denergie-et-de-perturbations.html?_x_tr_sl=fr&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr&_x_tr_pto=wapp

As there is a fair list of energy consumers on my power line.. I'm asking myself questions about it.

This is becoming schizo some will say again. This is why I'm asking questions into a Cartesian forum.
What I feel from my experience, but it's just my own empirism, I try to prove, is that there is Vibro-acoustic troubles AND Electrical troubles.

Thanks anyway for all the interest and tips you already provided. As someone tipped, I think about leaving by the end of 2022. What interest me the most on writing all my wrong experience, are materials and techs I could use to bust the problem. Not here for whinings or receive sorry guy "bon courage". I don't feel the need to talk to a psychologist's cell. That's for loonies.
I have courage.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2022, 03:43:21 pm by lxmute »
 

Online Someone

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2022, 11:18:34 pm »
This is becoming schizo some will say again. This is why I'm asking questions into a Cartesian forum.
What I feel from my experience, but it's just my own empirism, I try to prove, is that there is Vibro-acoustic troubles AND Electrical troubles.
Please try and keep them separate!

I am not aware of any proven case of Electromagnetic sensitivity beyond the occasional person with a conductive implant.

Acoustic sensitivity (including infrasound/vibration) is a well known and accepted thing, different people are sensitive to this in differing amounts. Ignore the people who say it can not be your problem. Focus on that as its almost certainly the problem. If you want a simple but not cheap solution at your own location ask an acoustic architect/music studio designer to first measure (with a calibrated reference) the situation then suggest a remedy. The environmental/safety standards are set for "average" person and may not be enough for you, and are missing/inadequate at low frequencies. From your description I would guess an acoustically isolated room would fix your problems, but that might be more money than you can afford (ten to twenty thousand DollarEuroPound).
 

Online Someone

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2022, 11:27:58 pm »
Low frequency noise pollution can be very disturbing to anyone suffering from such. It can become a form of low level torture use as a dripping tap might if you can hear it, but cannot stop the noise being made. The brain can start to focus on the irritating stimulus to the point that sleep is affected and the noise becomes a serious problem to the person ‘hearing’ it. Note that noise does not have to be in the normal hearing range of a human to be detected by the body. This is especially true of low frequency noise where transmitted vibrations may be involved.
If a neighbour annoys me to the point of no-return that is the method I would take! An array of low frequency speakers forming a focused point in their bedroom, warbling and cutting unpredictably. The environmental protection limits are completely inadequate in this area. A limit of dB A weighted at the nearest residential boundary is common in Australia (hence the above questions about the specific zoning).
 

Offline abquke

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2022, 11:30:00 pm »
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #42 on: June 07, 2022, 12:00:18 am »
The environmental protection limits are completely inadequate in this area. A limit of dB A weighted at the nearest residential boundary is common in Australia (hence the above questions about the specific zoning).
I agree. Over here low frequency noise pollution is getting more attention fortunately.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline eti

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #43 on: June 07, 2022, 05:00:01 am »
You're in France, the land of the French, and you're rude enough to refer to them in such an unkind, potentially racist manner? Watch your step old bean; *you're* the outsider there!

I got to that comment and didn't read any further, what an ignorant statement to make.  As an English person myself, even I can understand that the French have far more class and culture than most English people could ever dream of having.
 

Offline eti

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2022, 05:06:16 am »
an old retired EE
ok boomer.

I am not a native English speaker myself, but I am pretty sure that this phrase is used in a dismissive way. If that was your intent -- dismissing someone who is trying to help, and implying that he is narrow-minded, out of touch etc. -- then I don't know why we should bother with further replies.  :-\

Edit: Typo fixed.

In the handful of times that some ignoramus has referred to me as "boomer", I've chuckled to myself, very content in the knowledge that I've lived much longer than them, have more experiences and understanding.
 
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Offline Kasper

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2022, 05:48:50 am »
Just move.  It would be so much less effort than all of this.

Even if you find the cause, are you going to be able to fix it?

It is nice of you to consider the next residents but maybe they won't mind it.  If you invite people over, do they hear the noise?

I lived in an apartment that was not designed for hard floors.  The people above me installed them anyways.  They broke rules and I proved it. It didn't help.  I asked them nicely to put down rugs or replace their carpet. Didn't help.  I even offered to pay part of it. Didn't help.  I became very unhappy and faught back. Created my own noise. Successfully made it unbearable for them.  Didn't help.  Instead of fixing the problem they caused, they moved out. 

Finally I sold at a loss and gtfo. Problem solved.  I can not believe I lived like that for as long as I did.  Even though I lost money, I am so happy I left.  I didn't want to pass the problem along to someone else but what more could I do? I tried harder to fix it than most people would and that was enough.  Hopefully the new owner rents to young partiers or other people that aren't as bothered by noise as I was.  At the least, they wouldn't have the whole frustrating history to make matters worse.

You have put more than enough effort into solving this.  It is clearly a terrible place for you to live. So move.

 If you really want to keep it then rent it out.  Hopefully your tenants won't mind. If they are bothered by it and move out then you have more evidence to show the city the neighbor is being unreasonably loud.
 

Offline pcprogrammer

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #46 on: June 07, 2022, 05:55:04 am »
The environmental protection limits are completely inadequate in this area. A limit of dB A weighted at the nearest residential boundary is common in Australia (hence the above questions about the specific zoning).
I agree. Over here low frequency noise pollution is getting more attention fortunately.

Off topic, but yet the Dutch government is working on laws to only allow hybrid central heating systems as a replacement from 2026 onward. Most of these systems use air to water heat pumps, which make noise. Imagine a "nice" vinex location or a town like Amsterdam with all the houses fitted with such units what a noise level that might bring.

Edit: It might be read as that every body had to get a new central heating system, so added "as a replacement". Only when you need a new one you have to install a hybrid.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 06:12:17 am by pcprogrammer »
 

Offline jonpaul

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #47 on: June 07, 2022, 06:02:17 am »
Rebonjour, I address the French tradition of La Politesse..politeness.

In France, we constantly use the formal phrase  "S'il vous plaît" =  SVP = If you please... to ask for anything...even of a close friend or a market vendor

Its a pity that this French custom of polite communication has been forgotten or (never learned) by some of the younger generation.

I humbly suggest that the OP, moderate or review comments to be a bit more more polite, and less critical of forum members,  who are only being polite enough to use their time assist others.


Je vous prie de croire, Monsieurs, à l'assurance de mes salutations distinguées   

Jon
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 06:04:38 am by jonpaul »
Jean-Paul  the Internet Dinosaur
 
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Online Someone

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #48 on: June 07, 2022, 07:05:36 am »
The environmental protection limits are completely inadequate in this area. A limit of dB A weighted at the nearest residential boundary is common in Australia (hence the above questions about the specific zoning).
I agree. Over here low frequency noise pollution is getting more attention fortunately.
Off topic, but yet the Dutch government is working on laws to only allow hybrid central heating systems as a replacement from 2026 onward. Most of these systems use air to water heat pumps, which make noise. Imagine a "nice" vinex location or a town like Amsterdam with all the houses fitted with such units what a noise level that might bring.

Edit: It might be read as that every body had to get a new central heating system, so added "as a replacement". Only when you need a new one you have to install a hybrid.
More uninformed/irrational heat pump scare mongering! Australia has limits on domestic appliance noise, 45 dB(A weighted) at the boundary. With plenty of installs being built right on the boundary the majority of new heat pumps meet the requirements so its not even an extra cost. There are legacy heaters gas/oil/heat-pump that fail that limit too, but since the rules only apply to new installations they get away with it.
 

Offline JohanH

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Re: Request for knowledge - Troubles at home
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2022, 07:32:37 am »

Off topic, but yet the Dutch government is working on laws to only allow hybrid central heating systems as a replacement from 2026 onward. Most of these systems use air to water heat pumps, which make noise. Imagine a "nice" vinex location or a town like Amsterdam with all the houses fitted with such units what a noise level that might bring.


Scaremongering. I used an air-air heat pump for maybe ten years in parallel with an oil burner. Couldn't hear the outer unit inside, the oil burner had more noise. Now using a ground source heat pump and it is more quiet than the old oil burner.
 


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