General > General Technical Chat
Resistance Of Reviews
engrguy42:
Just stumbled on this thread and thought I'd add my 2 cents... :D
As someone who has been around people for many decades, there's one thing I've learned about people:
Never, ever, EVER challenge, correct, or criticize anyone. Ever.
Why?
Ego. Few will admit it, but we are all, for the most part, driven primarily by egos and our feelings. It feels good to boost our egos, and it feels incredibly painful to hurt our egos. Some more than others, but for the vast majority of us protecting our egos is on the top of our list of important stuff.
And truth be told, the vast majority of tech (and other) discussions boil down to egos. I'm smarter than you. That's it.
And since, by definition, suggesting something like that will hurt peoples' egos, most people will absolutely freak out when they read that. Or say it's just the other guy who's that way. But that's just further proof that it's true.
Psychologists have known that it's true since the beginning of time, but it's one of those things that's too painful to discuss. Or admit.
Personally, I know I'm that way, but I've also learned enough to realize that, after more than 45 years as an electrical engineer, I don't know nothin'. Always learning, every day. So when someone disagrees with or challenges me, it initially hurts, but I also realize they may be right and it might be a chance to learn something. Of course, they may also just be trying to protect their egos and prove they're smarter by saying some irrelevant tech factiods, but anyway... :D
So as my signature says, the smartest people are those who know enough to finally realize "hey, there's a TON out there that I have no clue about".
Coincidentally, I just saw an ad with Neil deGrasse Tyson where he said something like:
"One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong".
Oh, and another well known but never discussed (and related) topic is:
"People believe what they want to believe. Facts are irrelevant". And as a psych professor buddy told me years ago, "and that especially applies to technical folks like scientists and engineers".
coppercone2:
--- Quote from: engrguy42 on April 10, 2020, 11:10:35 am ---Just stumbled on this thread and thought I'd add my 2 cents... :D
As someone who has been around people for many decades, there's one thing I've learned about people:
Never, ever, EVER challenge, correct, or criticize anyone. Ever.
Why?
Ego. Few will admit it, but we are all, for the most part, driven primarily by egos and our feelings. It feels good to boost our egos, and it feels incredibly painful to hurt our egos. Some more than others, but for the vast majority of us protecting our egos is on the top of our list of important stuff.
And truth be told, the vast majority of tech (and other) discussions boil down to egos. I'm smarter than you. That's it.
And since, by definition, suggesting something like that will hurt peoples' egos, most people will absolutely freak out when they read that. Or say it's just the other guy who's that way. But that's just further proof that it's true.
Psychologists have known that it's true since the beginning of time, but it's one of those things that's too painful to discuss. Or admit.
Personally, I know I'm that way, but I've also learned enough to realize that, after more than 45 years as an electrical engineer, I don't know nothin'. Always learning, every day. So when someone disagrees with or challenges me, it initially hurts, but I also realize they may be right and it might be a chance to learn something. Of course, they may also just be trying to protect their egos and prove they're smarter by saying some irrelevant tech factiods, but anyway... :D
So as my signature says, the smartest people are those who know enough to finally realize "hey, there's a TON out there that I have no clue about".
Coincidentally, I just saw an ad with Neil deGrasse Tyson where he said something like:
"One of the great challenges in life is knowing enough to think you're right but not enough to know you're wrong".
Oh, and another well known but never discussed (and related) topic is:
"People believe what they want to believe. Facts are irrelevant". And as a psych professor buddy told me years ago, "and that especially applies to technical folks like scientists and engineers".
--- End quote ---
you can kill a company or product that way with a bad release. you are lucky to have vigilant managers
basinstreetdesign:
--- Quote from: engrguy42 on April 10, 2020, 11:10:35 am ---Never, ever, EVER challenge, correct, or criticize anyone. Ever.
--- End quote ---
There is no excuse for this attitude. Mother nature is not very forgiving so we better be willing to let an error of ours be revealed. It benefits everybody in the company that an error in the design of some gizmo be corrected sooner rather than later.
If I was in charge of some group and that attitude was displayed before me by some misguided soul then I would make sure that that person was promptly corrected. Furthermore I would see to it that that person would not be responsible for any critical part of a project until it was clear that his attitude was different.
I have always feared and enjoyed peer reviews of my designs for two reasons. First, I fear that several mistakes would be pointed out to my chagrin and, two, I hoped that my design may be met with approval to my pride. There are few moments in your career than when your betters or equals applaud your work.
ebastler:
--- Quote from: engrguy42 on April 10, 2020, 11:10:35 am ---As someone who has been around people for many decades, there's one thing I've learned about people:
Never, ever, EVER challenge, correct, or criticize anyone. Ever.
--- End quote ---
That may tell something about the "people" you interact with, but I'm afraid it also tells a lot about you.
If you have not figured out how to give constructive feedback in a way that does not sour relationships, that's a pity, because a lot of your knowledge and experience goes unused. It must also be immensely frustrating to you to know of better solutions, but not be able to bring them into the discussion?
engrguy42:
--- Quote from: ebastler on April 11, 2020, 08:10:22 am ---
--- Quote from: engrguy42 on April 10, 2020, 11:10:35 am ---As someone who has been around people for many decades, there's one thing I've learned about people:
Never, ever, EVER challenge, correct, or criticize anyone. Ever.
--- End quote ---
That may tell something about the "people" you interact with, but I'm afraid it also tells a lot about you.
If you have not figured out how to give constructive feedback in a way that does not sour relationships, that's a pity, because a lot of your knowledge and experience goes unused. It must also be immensely frustrating to you to know of better solutions, but not be able to bring them into the discussion?
--- End quote ---
I think you completely missed my point. I always challenge, correct, and criticize people. Like I did with the post you're referencing. I criticized the general population for having incredibly fragile egos.
When I say "never do it", what I mean is "never do it unless you're willing to suffer wrath and rage and personal attacks".
My point is that people HATE it. And they get FURIOUS when you do it. In fact, in my many years as an engineer and engineering manager I had to learn the "proper" way to challenge, correct, and criticize people without upsetting them. There's even training for managers showing how to do it.
And one of the responses people have to criticism (like the criticism in my previous post) is they lash out at the one who's doing the criticizing. :D
Have you never read any tech discussions? :D
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