Poll

What is your interest in the Hantek DDS 3x25?

I own one
36 (27.1%)
I am considering getting one
40 (30.1%)
Curious about the hack
16 (12%)
Just passing through
41 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 111

Author Topic: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?  (Read 289909 times)

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Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #350 on: March 04, 2012, 08:35:52 pm »
update:

1) my 3x25 went wacky this night. it happened when i screwed (burnt) some opamp circuit, probably some kickback making the fpga (i believe) intermittently hanging more than before. opened up, resolder everything, now better, but still happening sometime. morale, fondle your 3x25. any idea how to protect the opamp/fpga output from things like esd and spikes? any idea on how to download, save or upload and refresh the fpga FW?

2) latest SW version 3.2.1.9 available http://www.hantek.com/Product/DDS-3x25/DDS3X25USB(3.2.1.9).rar, for who want to try, i wont bother to download (i owned ver 3.2.1.7) but would love to hear if any major changes.

edit: forgot to tell, i disabled the "set wave on device startup". enabling it making thing worst, ie the unit will hang even if we disconnect and reconnect it to usb, even several time.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 08:39:22 pm by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #351 on: March 05, 2012, 12:01:01 pm »
Hey Shafri -

Thanks for the heads-up about the new software version - I will check it out and report back if there are any noteworthy changes.

Quote
edit: forgot to tell, i disabled the "set wave on device startup". enabling it making thing worst, ie the unit will hang even if we disconnect and reconnect it to usb, even several time.

Yes, I tried to use this feature many times - and it's REALLY buggy... best to avoid unless desperate for the functionality.

Edit: BTW, your link address has a comma in in - causing a 404 error - corrected is:  http://www.hantek.com/Product/DDS-3x25/DDS3X25USB(3.2.1.9).rar

Edit2: I don't see any changes in the software - and there's no change log provided - so I assume it's just bug fixes in the new version.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 12:45:27 pm by marmad »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #352 on: March 05, 2012, 12:50:11 pm »
BTW, when using "set wave on startup device", are you following the manual's instructions for disabling it when you don't want to use it anymore (quoted below)?  Since it assumes you are not using the USB (for control or power) it seems to 'lock' out the interface, requiring manual override:

"If you don’t want to generate the waveform which is saved in the hardware memory, connect the “CONTROL” BNC end to ground before inputting power to this instrument. You can use a Short-Circuit Cap as shown in below."
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #353 on: March 05, 2012, 01:10:17 pm »
One other funny thing I noticed when comparing different versions of the manual for the device:

The users guide that comes with the software has, in the Hardware Specifications section:
Frequency Resolution = 0.1%

The users guide which is downloadable separately at the Hantek site has:
Frequency Resolution = ....

I guess there are different ways we could interpret that  ;D
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 01:17:55 pm by marmad »
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #354 on: March 05, 2012, 05:23:05 pm »
good to hear from you Mark. i thought you'ar dead :D

Quote
BTW, when using "set wave on startup device", are you following the manual's instructions for disabling it when you don't want to use it anymore (quoted below)?
not sure. i enable/disable it by software/api discussed last time. i did use 0ohm terminator at the back all the time, and wave is saved in HW memory all the time, ie if i pull the terminator away, the wave will start on startup. i have no issue whatsoever with goltek software "wave on startup" before, until last night.

i suspect the fpga is vurnerable to spike/transient from outside (output port or usb power? connection), and now mine is more vurnerable than before. it happened several time this night, but luckily i can revive it by unplug/plug usb. i remember i had to unplug/plug 3 times on one occasion and/or unplug and wait a moment and plugin again to make it work. i also had an occasion where during changing the square wave to sine wave, the fpga converted it halfway, so the output is half square and half sine and then hanged (wave output still ON but unable to comm with software, ie hanged), i had in another occasion, the fpga simply output random shape when commanded, inverted square, uneven rounded sawtooth wave etc (and ofcourse hanged afterward). another symptom, during usb plugin, the signal goes high and stayed there and hanged. i feel its unlikely the symptoms came out of output opamp or DAC, it must be from the fpga, whatelse? i highly suspect. is it possible the FW inside the fpga got corrupted? i wish there is a way to refresh it. the fpga name has been scratched out, so we dont know what fpga it is, damned Hantek!

i did mod the usb power to add a smd ferrite (after the 0ohm smd jumper), reflow all the fpga caps. but its still happening, but better than last night. last night i thought i've lost the 3x25, but luckily not, i dont know for how long this will stand. thanks Mark for clarifying the newer vendor's SW version. i guess i will skip that. cheers ;)
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline marmad

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #355 on: March 05, 2012, 06:24:58 pm »
Quote
good to hear from you Mark. i thought you'ar dead

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.  ;)

Quote
the fpga name has been scratched out, so we dont know what fpga it is, damned Hantek!

I thought we had identified all of the scrubbed chips in the 3x25.  You had figured out the DAC chip, and Tinhead identified the the USB chip as STM32F102Cx or STM32F103Cx - and the FPGA as a Spartan3 AN (way back in an early page of this thread).  He guessed they had used the AN because it had integrated flash to stop clone makers.  So it's highly likely that the FW is locked and not readable - but as far as I know, no one has tested this theory.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #356 on: March 06, 2012, 11:42:00 am »
iirc, the identification of the chips is just speculation, no hard proof. even if they are known, as you said, its highly probably unreadable. so maybe later, when i permanently brick the 3x25, but hopefully not.
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline saturationTopic starter

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #357 on: March 06, 2012, 02:16:05 pm »
When I work with my equipment doing designs I isolate the outputs of my signal sources with op amps configured as voltage followers; so if anything snafus they'll be the first to take the error and easily replaced, particularly if the operating voltage of your DUT is greater than that provided by the signal source.   For prototyping, I still use the 741 and work at low frequencies and a 741 is durable, it takes quite a bit of beating to kill it.  Once the basic idea is sound and you are ready to test at higher frequencies, change the voltage follower to one with the needed bandwidth.


update:

1) my 3x25 went wacky this night. it happened when i screwed (burnt) some opamp circuit, probably some kickback making the fpga (i believe) intermittently hanging more than before. opened up, resolder everything, now better, but still happening sometime. morale, fondle your 3x25. any idea how to protect the opamp/fpga output from things like esd and spikes? any idea on how to download, save or upload and refresh the fpga FW?

2) latest SW version 3.2.1.9 available http://www.hantek.com/Product/DDS-3x25/DDS3X25USB(3.2.1.9).rar, for who want to try, i wont bother to download (i owned ver 3.2.1.7) but would love to hear if any major changes.

edit: forgot to tell, i disabled the "set wave on device startup". enabling it making thing worst, ie the unit will hang even if we disconnect and reconnect it to usb, even several time.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 02:17:57 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #358 on: March 06, 2012, 02:47:27 pm »
i have the 10x25 remember? but i hate to rig it out and ext psu. i think if the 3x25 frontend opamp is damaged i have one replacement opamp ready for service. and i'm not sure with follower buffer will isolate the unit fully. yes i agree with you about the 741. i'm now rigging up "fully isolated KV approved" relaxation 741 oscillator that doesnt need the 3x25 to power up :P but only for low freq (<100KHz)
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #359 on: March 06, 2012, 05:32:39 pm »
When I work with my equipment doing designs I isolate the outputs of my signal sources with op amps configured as voltage followers; so if anything snafus they'll be the first to take the error and easily replaced, particularly if the operating voltage of your DUT is greater than that provided by the signal source.   For prototyping, I still use the 741 and work at low frequencies and a 741 is durable, it takes quite a bit of beating to kill it.  Once the basic idea is sound and you are ready to test at higher frequencies, change the voltage follower to one with the needed bandwidth.
You would wonder , because i did kill a 741 before . Or did i ?
 

Offline Pentium100

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #360 on: March 08, 2012, 09:33:14 am »
Has anyone added output protection to their 3x25? I blew up the output opamp again and while they are not expensive (not cheap either - ~4EUR), the local store does not have them so I have to order it and wait for the store to get it.

At least I made the 3x25 do a 11.5-12.5MHz sweep (sine wave).
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #361 on: March 08, 2012, 10:39:08 am »
You requested too much power ?
I guess it's time for you to ... couple a high power opamp as a amplification device .
 

Offline steve_w

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #362 on: March 08, 2012, 10:54:00 am »
Have you considered using an attenuator to isolate the the output?
So long and thanks for all the fish
 

Offline Pentium100

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #363 on: March 08, 2012, 11:55:38 am »
You requested too much power ?
I guess it's time for you to ... couple a high power opamp as a amplification device .
No, connected the output to the screen grid of a tube instead of the control grid.

Have you considered using an attenuator to isolate the the output?
I'll try, assuming with the new opamp the 3x25 will actually give 3V when I specify 3V (has some intermittent problem where it would have reduced output at frequencies >4MHz).
I guess I should buy a couple of BNC sockets, resistors and a cable. Or just add the two resistors inside the unit.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #364 on: March 15, 2012, 05:54:59 pm »
i wonder how did i miss posts on 9th march. anyway, followup from 7th march, update...
i reflowed usb chips and the neighboorhood components including connection to fpga, the intermittent hanging seems to go away since that. so bad connection on usb chip is another high suspect.

@Pentium100: what output opamp you use for replacement? because the original LMH6702 flatness wont reduced until somewhere 10MHz, the -3db BW is at 30-39MHz. i've (and rfloop iirc) made some report on the 3x25 flatness in earlier page if you havent noticed. if you really need protection, you can try out placing protection diodes at the output to the power rails, but beware you'll risk routing the damage to psu section. or you can use high end opamp such as TI THS3091/5 to act as frontend protection, buffer and magnitude magnifier to ±10Vpp output looking at hi-Z load.


Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline Pentium100

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #365 on: March 15, 2012, 11:03:30 pm »
I used the original opamp, while finding datasheet of a part is quite easy, finding a part that is compatible with some other part is usually difficult.
Also, thanks for the schematic, I'll consider building it (hopefully the frequency is not too high for a perfboard).

Hmm... what if I put a couple of 4V zener diodes from the output to ground and then a resistor in series with the output? They should protect the output somewhat without routing the damage to the power supply.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #366 on: March 16, 2012, 03:46:11 am »
what if I put a couple of 4V zener diodes from the output to ground and then a resistor in series with the output?
for the diode, watch out output attenuation at higher frequency, your output flatness curve could be changed, but i'm not sure, never done that.
for the series resistor, you WILL alter the output impedance to greater than 50ohm, not really matter if you always work with high input impedance device/dut, but for low input impedance could be a problem. the device already has series 50ohm resistor on the output (50ohm output impedance).
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline Pentium100

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #367 on: March 16, 2012, 04:55:37 am »
for the diode, watch out output attenuation at higher frequency, your output flatness curve could be changed, but i'm not sure, never done that.
Not really a big problem - if I want a continuous wave, I can just use my oscilloscope to measure the voltage and set the software so the output is what I need. If I want a swept frequency wave, I can measure the drop and a dd the correction to my program.

Quote
for the series resistor, you WILL alter the output impedance to greater than 50ohm, not really matter if you always work with high input impedance device/dut
Yes, the devices that I used this generator so far all had high impedance (at least a few kiloohms).
 

Offline calin

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #368 on: June 01, 2012, 04:34:40 am »
I have been looking around on the net but with not too much luck ... Does anyone know if it works under Linux? I mean if there is a USB driver available. Even if there is no software I am fine as long as there is a way to speak with this thing over USB there is hope to get some Linux software for it... Thinking to write something my self just so I have a fun project to do.

Sincerely I am really thinking to buy one of these, it really looks like the best bang for the buck to me.
 

Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #369 on: June 01, 2012, 11:06:20 am »
I have been looking around on the net but with not too much luck ... Does anyone know if it works under Linux?

It doesn't, and Hantek couldn't care less.

Quote
I mean if there is a USB driver available.

No.

Quote
Even if there is no software I am fine as long as there is a way to speak with this thing over USB

Sure, there is a way. Apparently the Windows software/driver is able to talk to it over USB. Therefore any other system knowing the USB protocol should be capable to do so. Only that no one knows the protocol, and the Hantek people, providing the typical Chinese kind of service, don't answer any questions.

Quote
Sincerely I am really thinking to buy one of these, it really looks like the best bang for the buck to me.

Lots of shortcomings, limitations and bugs.
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Offline calin

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #370 on: June 01, 2012, 03:43:27 pm »
I know there is a driver on windows but looks to me the protocol is not known and good luck getting Hantek guys to share it. And  reverse engineering USB protocols is out of question, I know how to do it but I first don't have the tools (USB analyzer) and the will to do so :)

I wrote drivers for quite a few devices so for me to hash out a is just a matter of having time, especially on linux is really clean and simple to write an USB driver. I miss my days of serios unix programming and what better way to do something like a driver ... write one for a tool that many hobbyists will appreciate.

As for bugs etc ... I don't need something insanely good, just hobby work  , microcontrollers and stuff.
 

Offline saturationTopic starter

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #371 on: June 01, 2012, 05:31:45 pm »
B@W has valid points, but if you are aware of its flaws and do not need signals that require the flaws corrected, e.g. the phase trigger signal is off relative to the output signal [ prior to mecha's repair it would not sync past 20 MHz, see the posts regarding jitter..],  or the sweep rate is too slow, etc., it works.   There aren't too many function generators as of this writing that will output up to 100 MHz under $150.

There are no drivers IIRC except for Windows, and how long the drivers will remain compatible with future Windows is anyone's guess.  However, at least we have mecha here to potentially find a fix if that happens.  I've run in on Win7 32 bit, XP, & Vista 32 without issues.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:28:18 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline calin

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #372 on: June 01, 2012, 09:44:12 pm »
Yeah, not too many generators that go to 100MHZ in this price range. At least I don't know any. Yep what mecha did for this is awesome.

If Hantek leaves the win driver to die ..  probably the best solution is to keep an old Xp machine around. I personally moved everything on Linux a few yars ago that's why I was wondering about Linux drivers. But to work out the USB protocol and reverse engineer it is  not nice. I did my share of reverse engineering.. not really keen in doing it again :) .

Quick question , dos any of you uses this in VmWare or some other VM? Because here is the thing, if it works under vmware hosted on linux then we can read the USB packets without needing an usb analyzer .. and once we read then figuring out how it works (package structure etc) is not extremely nasty. The killer for me is an USB analyzer .. that darn thing is freaking expensive.

If it works in a VM... heck, i-ll buy one and get to work  >:(

 

Offline saturationTopic starter

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #373 on: June 02, 2012, 03:15:06 pm »
Methinks you are going to be the Linux person, if you decide to run it as VM on Linux.  I don't recall Mac users on this thread either.   Since we are preoccupied with hardware, its easier to get any WinXP-Win7 box to dedicate USB instruments too than trying to run in on Mac or Linux, or even Android or iOS, unless spending your time hacking the software is your interest.

If it works in a VM... heck, i-ll buy one and get to work  >:(
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline biot

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #374 on: June 02, 2012, 09:26:34 pm »
Sure, there is a way. Apparently the Windows software/driver is able to talk to it over USB. Therefore any other system knowing the USB protocol should be capable to do so. Only that no one knows the protocol, and the Hantek people, providing the typical Chinese kind of service, don't answer any questions.

I do. Never really got around to writing a proper driver for it, but the protocol is easy enough.

I'm one of the people behind the sigrok project. We're moving into devices other than logic analyzers fast, and will get around to function generators at some point. You'll have at least a command-line frontend for it then, or a function generator GUI frontend if you want to write one.
 


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