Poll

What is your interest in the Hantek DDS 3x25?

I own one
36 (27.1%)
I am considering getting one
40 (30.1%)
Curious about the hack
16 (12%)
Just passing through
41 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 111

Author Topic: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?  (Read 289867 times)

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Offline torch

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #475 on: February 04, 2013, 10:48:43 pm »
Yes, the link is buried in here somewhere. Probably more than once. However, I have it in my favourites (I keep hoping Mecha will suddenly find himself with nothing to do and pick up on some of the other projects he was working on.  ;D )
 

Offline davyk

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #476 on: February 04, 2013, 10:54:31 pm »
Yes, the link is buried in here somewhere. Probably more than once.
I think I better re-learn to read  ::)
Thanks a bunch !

PS: I'm looking for some updates too, what a fantastic work he offers to us !
Kind regards,

vYk
 

Offline torch

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #477 on: February 04, 2013, 11:06:50 pm »
The sad thing is that this hobbiest, with no prior knowledge of the internals and capabilities, has produced software which is vastly superior to the software provided by the manufacturer, and that the manufacturer has made no effort to support their product by offering updates that address the shortcomings.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #478 on: February 05, 2013, 09:00:16 am »
(I keep hoping Mecha will suddenly find himself with nothing to do and pick up on some of the other projects he was working on.  ;D )
my projects flow depends on my need :P for example Goltek Digital, i still has no usefullness for it. so another guy has developed it, its somewhere here (or in my email) i asked him to post but i'm not sure what he has up to now. also i remember one request here to put on PWM capability and another request to make my library is DS2000 compatible. but since those required siginificant coding (and testing problem), i have to put it on hold. for easy fix, i almost certainly capable of jumping out of my current project to do that immediately, but for harder fix, yeah i'm also hoping that i will ever have a free very free time. i have a board that i wrote project lists, the scratched marking are still there from yesteryears. :P

ps: "Goltek Profiler" and "Goltek Compensator" (what kind of name are they?) are probably lie in "virtual dream" forever. since i believe we have better things than that and can do that manually.
for PWM, you can make your own PWM csv file and load into arbitrary button, (save different duty cycle in each number button 0-9) thats the workaround so far.

edit: this is the guy's app link he provided me last time http://www.hantek.org/asken/iaskdetail.aspx?id=2012123102451972 he is from http://www.embeddedat.com/ i hope he doesnt mind i'm putting his link here.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:04:10 am by Mechatrommer »
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Offline torch

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #479 on: February 05, 2013, 01:02:02 pm »
I often face the same problem: too many projects, too little time...
 

Offline davyk

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #480 on: February 05, 2013, 02:54:01 pm »
The sad thing is that this hobbiest, with no prior knowledge of the internals and capabilities, has produced software which is vastly superior to the software provided by the manufacturer, and that the manufacturer has made no effort to support their product by offering updates that address the shortcomings.
I'm saddly not surprised !

@Mechatrommer : Any chance to have any suitable gui for the hantek dso-5200A like you made for the 3X25 ?

Regards, vYk
Kind regards,

vYk
 

Offline davyk

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #481 on: February 05, 2013, 03:15:00 pm »
just a little thing, I cain't put the controller on my second screen. is it possible to unlock this?

regards vYk
Kind regards,

vYk
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #482 on: February 05, 2013, 03:29:40 pm »
@Mechatrommer : Any chance to have any suitable gui for the hantek dso-5200A like you made for the 3X25 ?
opps its an usb-scope not a FG. thats not possible 1) i dont have that unit, 2) i need to do it from scratch. entirely different functionality.

Quote
just a little thing, I cain't put the controller on my second screen. is it possible to unlock this?
thats reasonable. now i've disabled the check (while moving the app) but during loading its still on 1st monitor (to protect 1 monitor user from vanishing out of screen window) you need to drag manually after each reload. hope that helps... refer to attached file. backup your original version before overwriting, just in case.

edit: if the latest version crashes. the fix probably...
1) removing the waves.ini and waves.dat to another temporary folder. reload the software, if its fixed you can delete the older ini and dat files. if its not, try the following step.
2) download dlls.zip and update all the dll files.
if its still not fixed, you can msg me, thanks.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:02:41 pm by Mechatrommer »
Nature: Evolution and the Illusion of Randomness (Stephen L. Talbott): Its now indisputable that... organisms “expertise” contextualizes its genome, and its nonsense to say that these powers are under the control of the genome being contextualized - Barbara McClintock
 

Offline davyk

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #483 on: February 05, 2013, 03:43:37 pm »
MANY thanks for being such reactive !
...but windows says that it has to be closed because of an error before it appears .
Kind regards,

vYk
 

Offline saturationTopic starter

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #484 on: February 05, 2013, 03:46:51 pm »
... other manufacturers can do worse, see this thread and compare it to the 3x25:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/siglent-sdg1020-arbitrary-fungen-first-impressions-and-a-possible-signal-glitch/?topicseen

When glitches are consistent, in the case of the native 3x25 it was mostly the jitter and sync issue without Goltek, ita repeatable and you can work with, around or repair it, it would be the equivalent of setting output to e.g. 100kHz +/- 10 Hz depending on the jitter duration.

But in the case of the Siglent, the glitches are more widely distributed, even random, in shape and form, making it difficult to predict how to suppress it or work around it.






The sad thing is that this hobbiest, with no prior knowledge of the internals and capabilities, has produced software which is vastly superior to the software provided by the manufacturer, and that the manufacturer has made no effort to support their product by offering updates that address the shortcomings.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:13:49 pm by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline torch

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #485 on: March 13, 2013, 10:25:26 pm »
And now for something completely different...

I have an eletronic invisible fence to keep the dog within the allowed boundary. In case you are unfamiliar with the concept, a loop of wire is buried a few inches underground, both ends are connected to two terminals of a mains-powered transmitter and the dog wears a collar that beeps if she approaches the boundary and gives her a little zap if she tries to cross it. Works very well. Unless the loop is broken, in which case the transmitter stops transmitting and starts beeping instead.

I have about an acre and a half fenced off. The wire is under several feet of snow. The unit started beeping yesterday. Arrrgghh!

The manufacturer will happily sell me a detector to locate the break. For about $100, you get a transmitter and a battery operated receiver. Hmmm, gee, I wonder how that works...

So what has this to do with the Hantek DDS 3x25, you may ask?

I have the transmitter mounted in the boathouse, so I dragged my laptop and DDS 3x25 down there, hooked one side of the wire loop to the output, grounded the Hantek with a jumper, set things for 29MHz @ 3.5v and went for a walk with a scanner tuned to the signal. Didn't work so well, faded in and out a lot. So I dropped the frequency to 600KHz, and took a cheap handheld transistor radio for a walk. That worked well. Very well. Too well. I could pick up the tone standing in the middle of the yard! I eventually dropped the Hantek's output voltage to 0.5v, which was strong enough to pick up the signal through the snowbanks but faded well as I moved away from the boundary.

With this setup, I found the break within 15 minutes and localized it to within 3' of the actual location.

Not what the thing was designed for, but what the hey, it worked...  8)
 
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Offline zibadun

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Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #486 on: March 14, 2013, 03:40:11 am »

With this setup, I found the break within 15 minutes and localized it to within 3' of the actual location.

Not what the thing was designed for, but what the hey, it worked...  8)

Your 3x25 saved you time and money!  Now you've got an almost free function generator :)
 

Offline saturationTopic starter

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #487 on: March 14, 2013, 11:56:12 am »
Excellent!  That's what EE knowledge is designed for, use what you have to fix what you want.  Kudos!

And now for something completely different...

Not what the thing was designed for, but what the hey, it worked...  8)
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline asbokid

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #488 on: March 15, 2013, 06:59:51 pm »
By the way, I am surprised that no one until now seems to have used a USB protocol sniffer to figure out what these magic DLL functions really send to the generator. For example to figure out if they do some own special math or if the generator gets the values more or less as provided to the functions.

In an attempt to knock something together for Linux, I'm looking at the URB (USB payloads) using Wireshark.   The USB protocol used by the Hantek seems simple enough - it's only synchronous for starters.  But it's not clear at this stage how the waveform data is actually encoded in the URBs.

The PC host control software has to upload a maximum of 4096 datapoints to the Hantek. It does this in BULK OUT URBs, each of 64 bytes, padded where necessary.

There is a simple handshaking protocol between the Hantek and the PC host control software.  Initially, there is a pre-ample handshake, where the host controller confirms that the peripheral controller is responding.

The host controller s/w uses a three byte BULK OUT command e.g. [A1 22 88] to tell the USB peripheral controller that it wants to send a new waveform.

Each datapoint is encoded in the USB payloads using two bytes.  The maximum positive amplitude (~ +3.3v) is represented by the two bytes [00 30], and the maximum negative amplitude (~ -3.3v)  is represented by the two bytes [FF 2F].   And intermediate amplitudes are represented within those two limits.

The controller then sends URBs, each of 64 bytes, containing 32 samples of 2 bytes each. After each waveform URB, the peripheral controller responds with a single byte [CC] reply on the BULK IN endpoint.

Once the entire waveform has been uploaded in those 64 byte URBs, the host controller sends another three byte BULK OUT command. Similar to the three byte command sent earlier, but with bit 4 this time cleared, e.g. [A1 22 08].

That's as far as things have got to date.  Wireshark is running on a Linux box, monitoring the USB bus traffic. Meanwhile the controller software, whether the official Hantek s/w, or mechatrommer's Goltek application, or Marmad's program -- all applications for Microsoft Windows -- is running in Windows XP as a Virtual Box guest operating system.

cheers, a

EDIT: 4096 datapoints, as expected
« Last Edit: March 19, 2013, 01:45:40 am by asbokid »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #489 on: May 01, 2013, 10:44:45 pm »
I recently purchased the Hantek 4032L Logic Analyzer and remembered that they also made a Function Generator / ARB with digital outputs. I have just ordered the new 1025G version of the 3X25. Apparently the 1025G can be used as a 10 output digital stimulus source in harmony with the 4032L. They even stack together for a compact desktop solution.

I have spent the evening reading this thread so that I could understand the units behaviour  a querks a little better. What a journey it has been for you all ! Thanks for sticking with the development.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Mechatrommer and all those who have helped in the development of the superior control application that is the 'Goldtek Controller'. You have made this piece of hardware so much more than Hantek released to market, and you have my sincere thanks for all the effort that you all put into developing the application for the benefit of all software challenged owners !

As soon as my  1025G arrives I will open it up and take some pictures of the PCB. It is likely identical to the 3X25 but it does not hurt to confirm it  :)
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Online Fraser

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #490 on: May 08, 2013, 05:46:36 pm »
My Hantek 1025G arrived today.

It looks as well made as the 4032L logic analyser. Nice PCB quality and pretty good soldering.

I attach pictures below.

The unit uses a Xilinx Spartan chip but the exact part number has been erased. It is interesting that they have erased the chips in this unit but not the 4032L  :-//

They have also not fitted the 5V power socket even though it is catered for on the PCB. There also appears to be capability expansion potential in the design that has not been exploited on my model.


Compare these pictures with those of the 3X25 on Page 5 of this thread. Same schematic ? It looks to be.

The ST chip is clearly identified on my unit and was not erased unlike in the 3X25  :)
Previous postings indicate that the Spartan is a 3AN type.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 06:11:24 pm by Aurora »
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Offline torch

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #491 on: May 08, 2013, 06:15:59 pm »
I can't believe they got rid of the 5v supply.  :o Not to mention the missing BNC connectors. But then, nothing they have done with this product has made much sense to me. If Hantek's executives had an ounce of brain power, they would have contacted Mechatrommer, offered all the available programming information and make the software open source. They could then just sit back and watch the money roll in as the 3x25 flew off the shelves.

Instead, Hantek seems to have stripped out some of the functionality without increasing any of the capability and bundled it with their old, inferior, software. It's like someone said "Here's a gun, go shoot yourself in the foot" and they said "Ok!"
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #492 on: May 08, 2013, 06:55:27 pm »
I have to agree. They have provided the trigger and control line on the header block on the front panel but nowhere near as convenient as the BNC connectors. I believe a modification will be done by me soon  ;)

The 5V socket was a real surprise. The 4032L logic analyser is supposed to be powered by one of those weird double USB leads that takes power from two ports. That was replaced with a single USB lead and a mains power supply by www.rigoloscilloscope.co.uk who supplied it to me.

Now the 1025G is also supposed to have one of the double USB leads supplied with it, but it has come with a standard one and no power supply option due to the lack of the socket. I don't like powering kit off of my Dell laptop USB ports as they are renowned for being fussy on current draw. I shall be fitting the required 5V socket and polyfuse soonest.

As you say, this has been a huge opportunity lost. I will still find the unit very useful for my needs though, thanks to Mechatrommer's software  :) Thanks Mechatrommer !
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Offline marmad

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #493 on: May 08, 2013, 10:43:24 pm »
I can't believe they got rid of the 5v supply.  :o Not to mention the missing BNC connectors. But then, nothing they have done with this product has made much sense to me.

What is so strange is that they failed to write PC software which correctly implements some of the features of the original DDS-3X25 firmware; for example, 'burst' mode for doing single-cycle waveforms and short bursts. This is something I use all the time (via my own software) - but what did they do? Instead of re-writing the software to implement these things correctly, they just eliminate or bury features. It's as if their software programmers said, 'Nope, it just can't be done.'
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:46:57 pm by marmad »
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #494 on: May 09, 2013, 09:50:22 am »
It is a great pity that the software lets Hantek products down. The hardware looks to have been well thought through, and produced to a good standard. They need to find a new software engineer.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #495 on: May 09, 2013, 10:11:44 am »
It is a great pity that the software lets Hantek products down. The hardware looks to have been well thought through, and produced to a good standard. They need to find a new software engineer.

They first need to find new management.

Management that first of all acknowledges they have a relevant problem. Then comes up with a feasible plan to fix the problem. That plan should, among others, include hiring competent software developer. Then obtaining funding for the plan. Then executing the plan, correcting and adjusting it while they go.
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #496 on: May 09, 2013, 03:26:56 pm »
You have no understanding how companies work.
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Offline marabut

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #497 on: June 14, 2013, 07:58:43 am »
What is so strange is that they failed to write PC software which correctly implements some of the features of the original DDS-3X25 firmware; for example, 'burst' mode for doing single-cycle waveforms and short bursts. This is something I use all the time (via my own software) - but what did they do? Instead of re-writing the software to implement these things correctly, they just eliminate or bury features. [...]

Hi all!
 I plan to buy 1025G soon, so I'm trying to get  as much information as possible about (potential and real) flaws.
   
marmad
Could you make clear what you've had in mind, please?
What exactly features of 3x25 firmware aren't implemented in 1025G? This is important for me as 1025G is ~$65 cheaper than 3x25 at local distributor's store (yes, I know it's strange :o).
However if some of features was eliminated in 1025G, it can be better to get older but well known product. I used to think about 1025G as repackaged 3x25.
Is it true at functional level or not?
 
 

Offline torch

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #498 on: June 14, 2013, 11:20:02 am »
The external hardware differences are reasonably clear.

1. the 3x25 has a 5v external power connector, or can be powered by USB. The 1025g is USB only.

2. the 3x25 has 5 BNC connections: OUTPUT, SYNC OUT, COUNT IN, CONTROL, TRIG IN. The 1025g has only 2 BNC connections: OUTPUT, SYNC OUT.

3. The 3x25 has 6 digital inputs, I 0 through I5. The 1025g has only 4 digital inputs, I 0 through I3 (of the 20 pin connector). The advertising (and specifications page in the manual) claims the 1025g has 6 bit input, but the manual clearly shows it's only 4 bit.

4. The 3x25 also has 12 digital outputs, O 0 through O11. The 1025g has 12 digital outputs, O 0 through OB (of the 20 pin connector).

5. The 3x25 has two ground pins on the 20 pin connector, the 1025g has 1 ground pin.

6. If you have been doing the math thus far, that makes a total of 20 pins accounted for on the 3x25, but only 17 on the 1025g.  The other 3 pins seem to correspond to the missing BNC connectors: CTRL, COUNT IN, AND TRIG.

7. The 3x25 has a second 20 pin connector labelled "MULTIPROCESSOR LINK" used to synchronize multiple 3x25 units for multiple signal outputs using the homebrew ribbon cable shown in the manual. There is a section of the manual titled "Combine Devices" outlining how to do this. The 1025g does not have this connector, and the manual does not have a "Combine Devices" section.

The 1025g advertising claims "Standard USBXITM interface, easily inserts into USBXI housing to make up a combination instrument." However, this mysterious "USBXI housing" seems to be tradmarked vapourware. It's not listed anywhere in their product pages that I could find. Hantek's site search pulls up the 1025g and 3 pc-based scopes that claim to use it, but not the housing itself. Google produces similar results. As far as I can tell, the "USBXI housing" does not exist. I can only guess that Hantek meant to produce some sort of hub that would synchronize these products through their USB connectors but for some reason couldn't get it to work properly and gave up.

Just to be complete about this: Hantek doesn't seem to sell the "Optional Multiprocessor Link Cable" for the 3x25 either. However, they do at least show a couple of photos of it in the manual, so a standard IDC 20 pin cable can be modified quite easily:

Cut wires 1, 2, 3, 4 at each connector and leave them open.
Cut wires 17, 18 and 19 between the master and slave 0 connectors, connect all 3 together at the master connector and leave them open at the slave 0 connector.
Cut wire 16 between the master and slave 0 connectors. Connect wire 16 on the master connector to wire 15 on the slave 0 connector. Leave wire 15 open at the master and wire 16 open at the slave 0 connection.
Cut wires 16, 17, 18, 19 between slave 0 and slave 1.  Connect 17 and 19 together at slave 1 connector. Leave all others open.
Cut wires 16, 17, 18, 19 between slave 1 and slave 2.  Connect 18 and 19 together at slave 2 connector. Leave all others open.

NOTE: I only have one DDS 3x25, so I have never actually built and tested the above, I'm just going by the pictures! I'm sure Hantek would never make a mistake or omission in any of their documentation :palm:, but use at your own risk anyway.
 

Offline marabut

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Re: Review: Hantek DDS 3X25. Anyone own one?
« Reply #499 on: June 14, 2013, 09:04:49 pm »
torch,
Thank you for detailed description of differences between the two units. Some of missing features aren't "true" faults (from my point of view).
For example lack of external power connector doesn't seem to be a problem as the device will be connected to PC through galvanic isolation circuit (ADUM4160) and will draw power from stabilized linear PS (this should have positive effect on noise level too). Having some signal inputs at pins (instead BNC connectors) - especially CONTROL - can be even a plus.
Anyway, I plan to make a"frontend" with programmed low pass output filter,  buffers for digital signals and analog buffer/amplitude amplifier similar to built by Mechatrommer - less BNC's means easier connection in this case.  Things bothering me are: uneven length of tracks leading from FPGA to DAC (is it safe to leave them without damping resistors at such frequencies?), limited number of digital i/o (as I plan to use them to control the "frontend" circuit) and potentially limited firmware features (as e.g. triggered one cycle waveforms). Thanks to Aurora's  posted pictures one can see potential drawbacks, however I haven't seen complaints so far - so maybe it's just OK.

BTW - maybe somebody will reveal here some of secrets of Hantek's USB protocol? I know it is possible to write custom software (as Mechatrommer and marmad did) but I wonder if implementation e.g. SPI or I2C on digital I/O is possible that way. Is it fast enough to control the pins and transfer data both ways? It would be nice to control output LPF, attenuator etc. from one piece of software and using  only USB as interface.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 09:07:02 pm by marabut »
 


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