| General > General Technical Chat |
| Right to repair, my problem with it |
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| langwadt:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on July 23, 2021, 03:53:15 am --- --- Quote from: HobGoblyn on July 22, 2021, 10:21:24 pm ---A) this has been done to make manufacturing as cheap as possible B) this has been done so that due to how they are now designed it’s usually cheaper to buy a new one hence more sales. C) it’s been done because the last thing a company wants is for their products to be easily repairable, if they have people keeping their machine for 10 years plus, no new sales. --- End quote --- A) Then why are they (washing machines, etc) so damn expensive? B+C) If a company sells me a washing machine that fails in 3 years and can't be repaired, they sure aren't going to sell me another one, ever! --- End quote --- A) are they really expensive, or do you just think they are? B+C) but you believe they are expensive so you are not going buy the even more expensive one, so you will get one build to that price |
| G7PSK:
--- Quote from: Fixed_Until_Broken on July 22, 2021, 09:56:10 pm --- --- Quote from: bdunham7 on July 22, 2021, 09:44:17 pm --- Not necessarily and not significantly in the cases of my car and fridge. Progress is these areas, like many others, is 'lumpy' and some products are way out ahead of others--it isn't a smooth continuous improvement unless you are looking at aggregate statistics. --- End quote --- Not only that but tieing back to consumer electronics and such. The lack of repair is anti-competitive. Basically, your consumer product manufacture knows your device is likely to fail with X number of years so they plan their product cycles around this. This is stunting innovation. They don't really have to bring anything special to the table with each cycle. Just make sure your next product is slightly better and is ready to release just in time to keep the consumer. They don't have to compete with last model because its not getting fixed and its old news. You mean more flashing lights especialy over driven blue led's guarranteed to drive you nuts and burn out in six months by which time you dont notice due to the gaffer tape stuck over them. --- End quote --- |
| G7PSK:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on July 23, 2021, 03:53:15 am --- --- Quote from: HobGoblyn on July 22, 2021, 10:21:24 pm ---A) this has been done to make manufacturing as cheap as possible B) this has been done so that due to how they are now designed it’s usually cheaper to buy a new one hence more sales. C) it’s been done because the last thing a company wants is for their products to be easily repairable, if they have people keeping their machine for 10 years plus, no new sales. --- End quote --- A) Then why are they (washing machines, etc) so damn expensive? B+C) If a company sells me a washing machine that fails in 3 years and can't be repaired, they sure aren't going to sell me another one, ever! --- Quote --- In real terms a washing machine is cheaper than ever back in the 50's a washing machine cost two or more months wages now they are less than a weeks average wage. The same goes for things like TV's and radios. There is another factor in non serviceability and that is miniaturization of electronics years ago you did not need a microscope etc to carry out a repair components were large enough to handle with fingers, now they are so small that it is hard to see some of them with the naked eye so repairs take longer and require greater manipulative skills. I started working life as a watchmaker and people understood back then in the early 70's that such skills were not cheap and it took time to make repairs on such small components, it is the labor costs that drive companies like apple to just bin phones when under warranty and try to sell a new one when the warranty runs out. The main criticism I have for phones is sealed in batteries after all a battery is a wear item and should be easily replaced. --- End quote --- --- End quote --- |
| Psi:
--- Quote from: bdunham7 on July 23, 2021, 03:53:15 am --- If a company sells me a washing machine that fails in 3 years and can't be repaired, they sure aren't going to sell me another one, ever! --- End quote --- Yeah, for us engineers this is true, but for the general public it isn't. The general public will keep buying it |
| Brumby:
--- Quote from: langwadt on July 22, 2021, 04:10:29 pm ---when people mention "planned obsolescence" it is mostly nonsense. --- End quote --- It is real and well known - but that is not the point of Right To Repair. --- Quote ---If people replace stuff every couple of years because they want something new, there is absolutely no reason to spend money and effort on making it last 20 years. All you accomplish is being more expensive and not selling anything --- End quote --- Again, this is not the point of Right To Repair. The core principle of Right To Repair is to stop manufacturers deliberately taking steps that get in the way of making repairs. It is not, absolutely not, about forcing them to make things more repairable. It is NOT about getting them to revert to outdated processes. Modern manufacturing processes which result in products that are more difficult to repair is not an issue! If a BGA chip is bung, then a repairer might require a BGA rework station - which is fine. The product manufacturer instructing a chip manufacturer to NOT supply it to anyone but them is one of the problems that Right To Repair is addressing. If anyone wants to complain about Intellectual Property rights, then I have 3 things to say: 1. Those championing Right To Repair are not interested in the way the chip works - they just want a chip to replace the one that doesn't work. 2. Put a $20 licence fee on the $5 chip if you need to, but make it available! 3. If the IP rights holder of a chip is really worried about someone copying the silicon, then the chips are already out in the wild - in the very products that are sold. In the discussion about Right To Repair, PLEASE make sure you are raising points that are relevant to that specific topic. Certainly, there are many other aspects which are closely related - and they will take on a life of their own - but these are incidental to the core of Right To Repair and not part of it. |
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