| General > General Technical Chat |
| Right to repair, my problem with it |
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| pqass:
--- Quote from: robint91 on July 19, 2021, 06:29:11 am --- --- Quote from: pqass on July 19, 2021, 06:07:38 am ---Wrapping a trade secret in a contract doesn't make it legal. If its deemed anti-competitive, it's void and both parties will have legal trouble. R2R is partly about access to the same components that sellers put in their products. It's not about reverse engineering anything. The scheme is to make every component appear to be one-of-kind so the only option offered to an end-user is to replace whole boards at 85% the product cost. And they use contracts to bind suppliers from selling re-labelled chips that are supplier-designed minor customizations. --- End quote --- There is nothing illegal on what Apple and Intersil or other manufacturers are doing. You can have still access to other battery charging chips. They are not limiting access to that technology, they are not pushing other battery charging chips off the market. It is just that Intersil doesn't have the right to sell that customized part to other clients. Making this kind of deal illegal, is opening a can of worms for other small businesses and design houses. Right to repair is for me that you have the right to demand a repair for a product after the warranty ends from a manufacturer. But that repair isn't free and should be accordantly priced. --- End quote --- Other chips don't work in the product I bought. They ARE limiting where I can buy the chip that I need to get my device working again. I don't care who sells me the chip. The complaint is that I can't buy it for any money from anyone today. They are gatekeeping (through relabeling, they are controlling access to a chip currently available for purchase) and should be as illegal as other unsavoury schemes to limit consumer choices. No one is demanding a free repair. As a consumer, I just don't want the product seller to impede my ability to fix my own device by whoever I choose. I have never been forced to put Ford-branded tires on my truck. I can buy OEM tires from many retailers. I'm sure when Apple offers an iCar for sale they'll spec square rims (with rounded corners, of course). --- Quote --- --- Quote ---Right now if you accidentally drop your new purchase or it breaks outside its meager one year warranty, you're at the mercy of the sellers service offering. He can tell you to get stuffed and buy another one. In a just world, consumer protection law should compel product seller to supply parts for 1yr for every $200 spent on electronics (spend $1K = 5yrs parts support). It is not acceptable to sell the last product and have no means fix it. --- End quote --- Warranty doesn't cover that. Warranty is only for manufacturing defects. If you drop your laptop at day 2, you have created the problem, not the manufacturer. If the manufacturer doesn't want to repair it, it is their full right to do so. It is not that you made a mistake that the manufacturer needs to invest time and money into it, to fix the problem that you created. --- End quote --- I didn't say it should. Yes it may be my fault. Or, it could be 1 day after the meager warranty period. The only recourse should not be to chuck the whole thing in the bin over a $5 part and $75 labour. |
| vk6zgo:
--- Quote from: cdev on July 18, 2021, 09:49:31 pm ---Farmers should band togther to develop open agricultural machinery platforms and agricultural automation platforms in different sizes and types,standardize parts for it. Lets help solve real peoples problems affordably and help Feed the people of the world an save family farms from foreclosure in this era of climate change with open robots. --- Quote from: TimFox on July 18, 2021, 09:43:46 pm ---A large group of non-electrical folk who are concerned about RTR is farmers, since large tractor manufacturers such as John Deere are resisting it. --- End quote --- --- End quote --- Farmer's associations should sue companies who don't allow third party repair of agricultural equipment, on the basis of loss of production, & hence, income. |
| G7PSK:
--- Quote from: TimFox on July 18, 2021, 10:26:43 pm ---New John Deere equipment is as infested with software, IP, diagnostics, and chips as is other modern stuff. John Deere enthusiasts restore the ancient ones, with one-cylinder engines. --- End quote --- John Deere claim that farmers no longer own the tractor/equipment sold to them they only have a license to use said equipment due to the amount of proprietary software on the systems and say that you can only have the equipment serviced by an authorised dealer anything else revokes the license for use, I am waiting to see if they make that stick in court. The government here is talking about a right to repair law, mostly aimed at things like white goods as most are now unserviceable and spares are not available so if a fridge or washing machine etc breaks it has to be replaced with a new one. To my mind the ability to get spares for equipment is a no brainer and I try to avoid purchasing anything where spares will not be available three years down the road. |
| rstofer:
--- Quote from: pqass on July 19, 2021, 12:23:58 pm ---Right now if you accidentally drop your new purchase or it breaks outside its meager one year warranty, you're at the mercy of the sellers service offering. He can tell you to get stuffed and buy another one. Warranty doesn't cover that. Warranty is only for manufacturing defects. If you drop your laptop at day 2, you have created the problem, not the manufacturer. If the manufacturer doesn't want to repair it, it is their full right to do so. It is not that you made a mistake that the manufacturer needs to invest time and money into it, to fix the problem that you created. --- End quote --- There are insurance policies that do cover drops and other non-warranty issues. They also cost money. I suspect there are a lot of people who hope for the day when they break their obsolete cell phone and have an excuse to upgrade to the latest and greatest. We just buy the insurance for a couple of years and then, after the newness wears off, we drop the policy and wait for a reason to upgrade. Low dollar cell phones aren't economically repairable even if the parts are free. Labor to repair costs more than a new device. Given that my low dollar cell phone does everything any other cell phone does, it's got to be ego that drives people to high dollar cell phones. They can afford to replace the phone when it breaks. Now I'm supposed to buy an iPhone Pro and one of the high end Apple watches. I guess the total cost is just a little under $1700 or thereabouts. Not going to happen! I hate cell phones and my 4 year old $150 version is just fine. Everybody seems unhappy with Apple. Specifically... Why do they buy iPhones in the first place? They are overpriced and unrepairable. Why not just buy the low dollar unrepairable phone? Here's a $120 refurbished Samsung Galaxy https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-J327V-Eclipse-Verizon-black/dp/B07455VT9F Here's a $1000 iPhone https://www.amazon.com/Apple-Carrier-Subscription-Cricket-Wireless/dp/B084GS884W They both make phone calls and can send/receive text messages. I think ego gets in the way! |
| pqass:
Insurance only pays for a replacement; it values your data at $0. With Apple, if it doesn't boot, you're SOL WRT your data. All the more to push people into the cloud, right? Most people are ignorant and get themselves into situations. I'm not in favour of gov't bubble-wrapping. But the network effects of large players f*ks up everyone's choices even those that are trying to avoid them (me). How long before there's no more headphone jack on your next phone? Just make the parts available based on the value of the product sold; low value product = short after-warranty parts availability. That's fair. |
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