Right to repair, my problem with it

[MT]

Pump and dump manufacturing traces back to its origin of FED's and other bankers unrestricted fiat printing who destroys everything including 10 year warranty and rights to repair.

[ogden]

If I make a tea kettle or a microwave oven, and I make some non-standard part for them, then I will now have to turn into DigiKey and start doing retail shipping of individual parts.

Seriosuly? If you are microwave manufacturer - then sell bulk of spare parts to distributor like DigiKey, do not become one. There are many around already. Example: https://www.partscentre.co.uk/

[langwadt]

Do you have any proof of that?

Its buried somewhere in the 2015 consumer rights act,but as you say is all rather vague

Where? I've not seen any reference to fixed warranty periods in UK consumer law.

Incidentally, UK consumer law applies in addition to any warranty. Suppose an expensive product only has a warranty of 6 months and it fails after 7 months. It's still theoretically possible to get a repair, replacement, or refund from the seller, irrespective of it being outside the warranty period, because it hasn't lasted for a reasonable length of time. Note the customer should always go to the seller, as it's them who they have given the money and have made the contract with. The seller can then make a claim with the manufacturer.

EU consumer law is two years, but burden of proof changes after 6 months

[langwadt]

We have similar "fit for purpose" laws here. Not having this or only mandating a year warranty will never work these days as you get the "pump and dump" manufacturers/oems that exploit this. Which also sums up a large part of the problem, it's not the credible brands who are the issue it's their eventual demise being unable to compete on an uneven playing field. Being undercut or up against brands that churn products constantly and throw huge resources into marketing "limited lifetime" or low cost products.

People need to stop worrying about semantics of who pays for an extended warranty. We all pay for everything in the end, but it's moving responsibility to the manufacturer, that is key to prevent a race to the bottom.

surely the big established manufacturers would love that, the bigger the barrier to entry (enforced by tax money) the better, the easier it is to keep the little guys out

[Zero999]

Do you have any proof of that?

Its buried somewhere in the 2015 consumer rights act,but as you say is all rather vague

Where? I've not seen any reference to fixed warranty periods in UK consumer law.

Incidentally, UK consumer law applies in addition to any warranty. Suppose an expensive product only has a warranty of 6 months and it fails after 7 months. It's still theoretically possible to get a repair, replacement, or refund from the seller, irrespective of it being outside the warranty period, because it hasn't lasted for a reasonable length of time. Note the customer should always go to the seller, as it's them who they have given the money and have made the contract with. The seller can then make a claim with the manufacturer.

EU consumer law is two years, but burden of proof changes after 6 months

The UK left the EU, so it's no longer relevant here, unless our government decided to keep that law, as they have with many others.

I'm not sure if fixed warranty periods are a good thing. It should depend on the product. I'd expect a washing machine to last for longer than a laptop and would expect a more expensive washing machine to last for longer. For most things I'd say two years isn't enough and  burden of proof is an odd one. It's well known that people abuse products and the manufacturer/seller shouldn't be held responsible, but it's completely unacceptable to have shoddily constructed products on the market.

[TheBay]

I had great difficulty buying a mains cable for my Miele washing machine due to "Right to repair"
Miele has now decided (And some other manufacturers) that right to repair means only authorised and certified repair centres can purchase parts and end users can now only replace user replaceable parts (Which are really really simple parts)

Even third party stores that sell spares have been told by the manufacturers they cannot sell spare parts.
So things have gone backwards really and it is now a monopoly.

I did manage to order the mains cable from Miele in the end, it was £90. I would have used an alternative cable but I have a 10 year warranty on that machine.

[Zero999]

I had great difficulty buying a mains cable for my Miele washing machine due to "Right to repair"
Miele has now decided (And some other manufacturers) that right to repair means only authorised and certified repair centres can purchase parts and end users can now only replace user replaceable parts (Which are really really simple parts)

Even third party stores that sell spares have been told by the manufacturers they cannot sell spare parts.
So things have gone backwards really and it is now a monopoly.

I did manage to order the mains cable from Miele in the end, it was £90. I would have used an alternative cable but I have a 10 year warranty on that machine.

WFT? Just use ordinary mains cable. A washing machine will be fine with standard 1.25mm², or 1.5mm² PVC insulated mains cable. Anyone telling you, that special cable is required, is lying.

[TheBay]

I had great difficulty buying a mains cable for my Miele washing machine due to "Right to repair"
Miele has now decided (And some other manufacturers) that right to repair means only authorised and certified repair centres can purchase parts and end users can now only replace user replaceable parts (Which are really really simple parts)

Even third party stores that sell spares have been told by the manufacturers they cannot sell spare parts.
So things have gone backwards really and it is now a monopoly.

I did manage to order the mains cable from Miele in the end, it was £90. I would have used an alternative cable but I have a 10 year warranty on that machine.

WFT? Just use ordinary mains cable. A washing machine will be fine with standard 1.25mm², or 1.5mm² PVC insulated mains cable. Anyone telling you, that special cable is required, is lying.

And lose my 10 year warranty? I would have just done that if it was out of warranty.
This mains lead has a plug on one end that plugs in to the inverter board, you remove a screw from the rear and it slides sideways and pops out.

[Psi]

I had great difficulty buying a mains cable for my Miele washing machine due to "Right to repair"
Miele has now decided (And some other manufacturers) that right to repair means only authorised and certified repair centres can purchase parts and end users can now only replace user replaceable parts (Which are really really simple parts)

Even third party stores that sell spares have been told by the manufacturers they cannot sell spare parts.
So things have gone backwards really and it is now a monopoly.

I did manage to order the mains cable from Miele in the end, it was £90. I would have used an alternative cable but I have a 10 year warranty on that machine.

WFT? Just use ordinary mains cable. A washing machine will be fine with standard 1.25mm², or 1.5mm² PVC insulated mains cable. Anyone telling you, that special cable is required, is lying.

And lose my 10 year warranty? I would have just done that if it was out of warranty.
This mains lead has a plug on one end that plugs in to the inverter board, you remove a screw from the rear and it slides sideways and pops out.

It depends on the country, but most places have laws that the manufacture cannot refuse warranty just because a device was opened or a part was changed. The "warranty void if opened" stickers are not enforceable and have never been.  If the manufacturer thinks the device failure was related to what you did or the part you changed to aftermarket then they have to prove it.

However, until this is common public knowledge the manufacturer may just lie and say you are not covered by warranty and hope you go away. In this case you have to take them to small claims court.
This issue is a problem with public perception and the company, not really a law issue.
If everyone was talking to them court the courts would get pissed off at them and they would fail into line.
Companies will try to get away with everything if the public lets them.

[TheBay]

I had great difficulty buying a mains cable for my Miele washing machine due to "Right to repair"
Miele has now decided (And some other manufacturers) that right to repair means only authorised and certified repair centres can purchase parts and end users can now only replace user replaceable parts (Which are really really simple parts)

Even third party stores that sell spares have been told by the manufacturers they cannot sell spare parts.
So things have gone backwards really and it is now a monopoly.

I did manage to order the mains cable from Miele in the end, it was £90. I would have used an alternative cable but I have a 10 year warranty on that machine.

WFT? Just use ordinary mains cable. A washing machine will be fine with standard 1.25mm², or 1.5mm² PVC insulated mains cable. Anyone telling you, that special cable is required, is lying.

And lose my 10 year warranty? I would have just done that if it was out of warranty.
This mains lead has a plug on one end that plugs in to the inverter board, you remove a screw from the rear and it slides sideways and pops out.

It depends on the country, but most places have laws that the manufacture cannot refuse warranty just because a device was opened or a part was changed. The "warranty void if opened" stickers are not enforceable and have never been.  If the manufacturer thinks the device failure was related to what you did or the part you changed to aftermarket then they have to prove it.

However, until this is common public knowledge the manufacturer may just lie and say you are not covered by warranty and hope you go away. In this case you have to take them to small claims court.
This issue is a problem with public perception and the company, not really a law issue.
If everyone was talking to them court the courts would get pissed off at them and they would fail into line.
Companies will try to get away with everything if the public lets them.

I think the point has been missed here with the past 2 replies on what I originally said.
The point I was making is that parts are getting increasingly difficult to purchase if not impossible from either manufacturers or third party retailers due to the "Right to repair" it has stopped end users, third party retailers and any non "authorised repairers" from being able to obtain them.

The part I needed has no third party or compatible equivalent, if I had to replace it using suitable flex I would have had to modify the washing machine which would have involved drilling holes and soldering wires to the main board. Which I can't see going down too well when I do a callout.

Ironically it was a good investment jumping through hoops to buy this cable, as when I went to replace it, I noticed rust underneath the machine. And when I put my borescope inside the machine I could see the lower pan had rusted through.

Turns out the detergent had been leaking internally and eaten away the base of the machine. I called an engineer out and within days I had a brand new washing machine delivered.

Picture attached of the damage.

[Psi]

I think the point has been missed here with the past 2 replies on what I originally said.
The point I was making is that parts are getting increasingly difficult to purchase if not impossible from either manufacturers or third party retailers due to the "Right to repair" it has stopped end users, third party retailers and any non "authorised repairers" from being able to obtain them.

I have seen other post on this forum from a few people in the UK saying they are now finding it really hard to buy electrical components because their usual supplier has changed the rules and now only sells to other companies that are VAT registered.  Perhaps this is what you are seeing?
But I have not see any evidence that this trend is related to right to repair.

In any case, no one else in the word seems to be having this issue that i'm aware of, it seems to be a UK thing.
If right to repair was the cause you would expect to see it happening everywhere.

[TheBay]

I think the point has been missed here with the past 2 replies on what I originally said.
The point I was making is that parts are getting increasingly difficult to purchase if not impossible from either manufacturers or third party retailers due to the "Right to repair" it has stopped end users, third party retailers and any non "authorised repairers" from being able to obtain them.

I have seen other post on this forum from a few people in the UK saying they are now finding it really hard to buy electrical components because their usual supplier has changed the rules and now only sells to other companies that are VAT registered.  Perhaps this is what you are seeing?
But I have not see any evidence that this trend is related to right to repair.

In any case, no one else in the word seems to be having this issue that i'm aware of, it seems to be a UK thing.
If right to repair was the cause you would expect to see it happening everywhere.

It's definitely due to "Right to repair" not a VAT issue, it has also affected the EU too as we decided to match the EU policy before we left.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2021/06/new-right-to-repair-laws-introduced-what-do-they-actually-mean-for-you/

[Psi]

Whatever happens you should still be able to order your spare parts internationally.

You may also find a market develops for professional repairers, who have access to the parts, to resell them to the public with their own markup. Not ideal, but better than nothing and no different to how retail works for other sectors. Manufacturer -> wholesaler -> retailer.   Previously the wholesaler was also selling to the public and being a retailer but if this now stops a new retailer may step in to serve that market.

Unless you have some ghastly law that states some spare parts are illegal for the general public to own or be sold. But, If that is the case i suggest looking at options to move to a different country as a final level of protest against the system.

[Ranayna]

I think that this is more related to consumer protection laws.
A consumer in the EU, and i would assume that UK also still has that in effect, has a 14-day, no questions asked, right to return anything bought online.

A business does not have that right.
I can fully understand that the distributors do not want to deal with small-fry private customers anymore. It was always obvious that they never really were set up for that anyway. I would assume that one too many customer (ab)used the right to return. And any such deal is generally a net-loss. That is even true for the giants like amazon: It's cheaper to outright destroy many returned goods than to check and restock them. It's supposedly even cheaper to destroy than to donate.

What is a distributor like DigiKey supposed to to with a cut tape containing 100 smd resistors? Just having someone look at the package to see if it is still sealed is more expensive than those components are worth.

[Psi]

Yes, i agree.

It's not a right to repair issue, it's wholesale companies saying they don't want to sell to the public and have to deal with lots of returns or comply with B2C rules. That doesn't mean parts won't be available to the public, if there is demand for them someone will sell them.

And, if a country creates bad R2R laws that's not an argument against R2R, it's an argument against bad laws.

[sandalcandal]

Australian Productivity Commission just released their final report on Right to Repair yesterday. Available here: https://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/repair/report