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Right to Repair - UK and EU making changes to facilitate repairs :)
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AndyC_772:
It's doing well. Our last Miele died at 13 yrs old with a cracked spider.

I spent a day pulling the machine to bits, and as far as I could tell everything else in there was pristine, but the spider only came as a part of a complete drum assembly and that was £600. Their spare parts availability to end-users hasn't improved since then; quite the opposite, in fact.

I did a load of research and discovered that, across the entire industry, repairability of washing machines is *terrible*. The phrase "sealed drum" comes up a lot... a penny pinching design choice that means the machine is basically scrap when the bearing assembly wears out. Miele was about the only manufacturer known to not make this choice.

They also came up top of the ranking in terms of (Length of warranty / Purchase price), which was the metric I ended up using to make a final decision. On the assumption that any machine is likely to fail and become scrap as soon as the warranty expires, I bought the cheapest model that came with a 10 year warranty, which gave the overall lowest cost/lifetime of any machine on the market.
timeandfrequency:
Hi nctnico,


--- Quote from: nctnico on March 01, 2023, 11:26:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: timeandfrequency on February 27, 2023, 09:19:23 pm ---As you said, this would have changed the selling price only marginally (+ 1$), but, as for the washing machine plastic tanks, the decision to make the appliance more sustainable was not taken. Instead, they opted to run the manufacturing process solely on cost.

--- End quote ---
And people keep buying the crap. Our Miele washing machine turns 25 this year. Still going strong with some repairs and these machines are designed to be serviceable.

--- End quote ---
Sure, the price drives the purchase. And most buyers are not inclined to repair a defective good. It is also pretty difficult to obtain detailed information about how easy it is to repair a particular gear.

iFixit, Louis Rossmann, several non-profit organisations that dismantle, evaluate independently and practice 'name and shame', and also other initiatives like the 'Repairability Index' which is already compulsory in France, (try to) promote and broadcast the importance of building and buying sustainable goods that are easier and worth to be repaired.

Until very recently, repairing a defective consumer good was considered as retarded attitude : a defective good was not intended to be repaired.
Buying a new one was the only socially acceptable trend.
Things are changing, but it will take another generation before these orientations become truly widespread.

As illustrated by a few examples in my previous post, when talking about consumer goods, most of the manufacturers are still stuck in the greenwashing era.
Some of them have truly and recently improved the 'built to last' factor, and also tried to reduce the 'planned obsolescence' picture when it was really too apparent (e.g. printers).
But barely none of them have yet switched towards real 'built to be repairable' designs.

Furthermore, we do not have the people for all the vacancies of repair technicians, since (at least in France) the offer of training for these professions almost completely disappeared more than 25 years ago.


Be nice : just buy, but don't repair
A friend of mine which is really gifted in building and repairing many kind of gear, just bought a brand new EV.
So he asked the sales manager how he could purchase the service manual for his car.
Answer : Sir, you don't seriously consider to repair anything on this car by yourself, do you ?

What this bloke does not know, is that my friend already built the car charger by himself and that he's currently thinking about how to hook a powerful generator to the car for long-haul trips...
I'm quite sure that in a couple of years or even months, he'll have a suitable solution.


[update #1 typo : Rossann -> Rossmann]
nctnico:

--- Quote from: timeandfrequency on March 02, 2023, 09:01:39 am ---Hi nctnico,


--- Quote from: nctnico on March 01, 2023, 11:26:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: timeandfrequency on February 27, 2023, 09:19:23 pm ---As you said, this would have changed the selling price only marginally (+ 1$), but, as for the washing machine plastic tanks, the decision to make the appliance more sustainable was not taken. Instead, they opted to run the manufacturing process solely on cost.

--- End quote ---
And people keep buying the crap. Our Miele washing machine turns 25 this year. Still going strong with some repairs and these machines are designed to be serviceable.

--- End quote ---
Sure, the price drives the purchase. And most buyers are not inclined to repair a defective good. It is also pretty difficult to obtain detailed information about how easy it is to repair a particular gear.

--- End quote ---
In the NL there are some good online fora about diagnosing and repairing all kinds of consumer electronics. In general you can find lots of info online. You could ofcourse want manufacturer documentation. The primary problem still is diagnosing a problem and a forum is better to figure that out. Even manufacturers won't know what defect causes certain symptoms.


--- Quote from: AndyC_772 on March 02, 2023, 08:16:05 am ---It's doing well. Our last Miele died at 13 yrs old with a cracked spider.

I spent a day pulling the machine to bits, and as far as I could tell everything else in there was pristine, but the spider only came as a part of a complete drum assembly and that was £600. Their spare parts availability to end-users hasn't improved since then; quite the opposite, in fact.

--- End quote ---
That sucks. In the NL there is no shortage of spare parts webshops. And on many you can search based on model number to find the right parts. And then there is the second hand market. Turns out you can replace the spider with a steel one from the older models; and those steel spiders are being sold on the second hand market.
timeandfrequency:

--- Quote from: nctnico on March 02, 2023, 09:34:33 am ---In the NL there are some good online fora about diagnosing and repairing all kinds of consumer electronics. In general you can find lots of info online. You could of course want manufacturer documentation. The primary problem still is diagnosing a problem and a forum is better to figure that out. Even manufacturers won't know what defect causes certain symptoms.

--- End quote ---
You are right. Diagnosing requires skills, experience and tools. The lack of personal experience can be counterbalanced by the shared experiences and failure analysis that can be found on the forums.
If I'm not wrong, I think that Louis Rossmann launched this one : https://repair.wiki/w/Repair_Wiki

And as we all know, electronic boards are not repaired at the component level. Once defective, it is just replaced by a brand new board called 'electronic/control assembly', so far available.
Many years ago, detailed repair instruction existed for TV's and also for some high-end products. At HP, this was called 'CLIP' or 'CLIPS' (Component Level Information Packets)
An example of a CLIPS manual  : https://xdevs.com/doc/HP_Agilent_Keysight/3458A/doc/3458A%20CLIP.pdf  (just read the 1st page)
timeandfrequency:
Hi dariodario,


--- Quote from: dariodario on February 28, 2023, 07:35:18 pm ---[...]
So I started a side project working on an open source washing machine (WM). I already produced a working prototype. I wrote the firmware and made the main board. 
[...]
I'm not more confortable to proceed alone on this idea. Are there in the forum people a bit exerienced in marketing or 3D modelling/software/electronic interested to create a team with me?

--- End quote ---
If you want to find some partners for your project in France, I'd suggest to get in touch with a few fablabs/makerspaces/hackerspaces near your location and post your project, requirements, expectations, kind of help you need, and goals onto their own forum.
Creating an account is usualy possible without being a member of the structure.
Many of them are inclined to make open source hardware/software.

If nothing moves around you, feel free to contact some of them in other regions. Today, it is definitely possible to setup a project team with people that actually live far from you, or even abroad.
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