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Right to Repair - UK and EU making changes to facilitate repairs :)

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Brumby:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 06, 2023, 05:18:38 pm ---Brumby, the definition of a "good reason" for requiring serial number compatibility requires some investigation.

I worked in an industry that required strong configuration management and production of models that covered years.  During that production period design changes were made for a variety of reasons (discovery of a design defect, non-availability of a part or material, cost reduction ....).  Those changes were tested very thoroughly to make sure that they did not cause problems with the current product configuration, but often no evaluation at all of whether those changes were compatible with earlier production.  Our drawings and change orders precluded use of these parts in repair of earlier production.  This didn't mean that the change was incompatible with those earlier configurations.  But it did mean that we really didn't know, and couldn't guarantee that all performance would be equivalent. 

Does this constitute a "good reason"?

--- End quote ---
To me, that's not a reason - it's a caveat.

Let such potential issues run free in the wild and there will soon be a wealth of feedback from numerous interested parties that will have tried all manner of approaches in making things work.  You just have to withdraw the roadblocks that stop those parties from having a go.  The personal computer market is an example.  Lots of people provide input on what does and does not work, over and above what the manufacturers provide.  The same thing will happen in the repair community - certainly not to the same extent as we see in the personal computer industry, but it will happen -IF- given the chance.

For those who want to shout "Danger Will Robinson" for the potential for harm, I will refer them to the risk taken with motor vehicle repairs.  Given the opportunity, the good and the bad will be identified.

CatalinaWOW:

--- Quote from: Brumby on March 14, 2023, 08:36:11 am ---
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 06, 2023, 05:18:38 pm ---Brumby, the definition of a "good reason" for requiring serial number compatibility requires some investigation.

I worked in an industry that required strong configuration management and production of models that covered years.  During that production period design changes were made for a variety of reasons (discovery of a design defect, non-availability of a part or material, cost reduction ....).  Those changes were tested very thoroughly to make sure that they did not cause problems with the current product configuration, but often no evaluation at all of whether those changes were compatible with earlier production.  Our drawings and change orders precluded use of these parts in repair of earlier production.  This didn't mean that the change was incompatible with those earlier configurations.  But it did mean that we really didn't know, and couldn't guarantee that all performance would be equivalent. 

Does this constitute a "good reason"?

--- End quote ---
To me, that's not a reason - it's a caveat.

Let such potential issues run free in the wild and there will soon be a wealth of feedback from numerous interested parties that will have tried all manner of approaches in making things work.  You just have to withdraw the roadblocks that stop those parties from having a go.  The personal computer market is an example.  Lots of people provide input on what does and does not work, over and above what the manufacturers provide.  The same thing will happen in the repair community - certainly not to the same extent as we see in the personal computer industry, but it will happen -IF- given the chance.

For those who want to shout "Danger Will Robinson" for the potential for harm, I will refer them to the risk taken with motor vehicle repairs.  Given the opportunity, the good and the bad will be identified.

--- End quote ---

I generally agree.  Part of the answer lies in the level of risk of harm.  And your example of automotive repair is the perfect example of what is probably the highest risk that allows free substitution in the current world.  The aerospace world is far tighter.  And it is a conundrum.  The risks are greatly higher - failed parts cause severe injury and death in percentages measured in whole decimal points, while in the automotive world it is by my estimate a couple of orders of magnitude lower.  But exposure in the aerospace world is much lower (literally thousands of times fewer planes than automobiles).   

I guess the real answer is that humans don't perceive risk very accurately, and the market sorts out what people feel good about, regardless of any underlying facts.  And the Chicken Littles of the world do have an impact on the market.

SilverSolder:

--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 14, 2023, 05:33:57 pm ---
--- Quote from: Brumby on March 14, 2023, 08:36:11 am ---
--- Quote from: CatalinaWOW on March 06, 2023, 05:18:38 pm ---Brumby, the definition of a "good reason" for requiring serial number compatibility requires some investigation.

I worked in an industry that required strong configuration management and production of models that covered years.  During that production period design changes were made for a variety of reasons (discovery of a design defect, non-availability of a part or material, cost reduction ....).  Those changes were tested very thoroughly to make sure that they did not cause problems with the current product configuration, but often no evaluation at all of whether those changes were compatible with earlier production.  Our drawings and change orders precluded use of these parts in repair of earlier production.  This didn't mean that the change was incompatible with those earlier configurations.  But it did mean that we really didn't know, and couldn't guarantee that all performance would be equivalent. 

Does this constitute a "good reason"?

--- End quote ---
To me, that's not a reason - it's a caveat.

Let such potential issues run free in the wild and there will soon be a wealth of feedback from numerous interested parties that will have tried all manner of approaches in making things work.  You just have to withdraw the roadblocks that stop those parties from having a go.  The personal computer market is an example.  Lots of people provide input on what does and does not work, over and above what the manufacturers provide.  The same thing will happen in the repair community - certainly not to the same extent as we see in the personal computer industry, but it will happen -IF- given the chance.

For those who want to shout "Danger Will Robinson" for the potential for harm, I will refer them to the risk taken with motor vehicle repairs.  Given the opportunity, the good and the bad will be identified.

--- End quote ---

I generally agree.  Part of the answer lies in the level of risk of harm.  And your example of automotive repair is the perfect example of what is probably the highest risk that allows free substitution in the current world.  The aerospace world is far tighter.  And it is a conundrum.  The risks are greatly higher - failed parts cause severe injury and death in percentages measured in whole decimal points, while in the automotive world it is by my estimate a couple of orders of magnitude lower.  But exposure in the aerospace world is much lower (literally thousands of times fewer planes than automobiles).   

I guess the real answer is that humans don't perceive risk very accurately, and the market sorts out what people feel good about, regardless of any underlying facts.  And the Chicken Littles of the world do have an impact on the market.

--- End quote ---

If auto parts distributors get a large amount of complaints/returns for a particular product, it will be removed from the gene pool as well...  plus, the brand will be hurt by it.  So there are some feedback mechanisms in place, even in the automotive "free for all".

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